PC Sleepers even worse now.

Jugginator said:
Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but investing in stealth does allow you to hide and make the zombies lose track of you, allowing you to get that stealth hit in. It takes a little practice -sometimes with a bit of nerves of steel -  but most cases you can do this pretty quickly. It's honestly borderline OP once you've perked quite a bit into it/have some books read.
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I do that all the time, backtracking until I find a nice place to hide….though you can’t just run all the way as you are making noise the entire time.

Having the books to sneak run and no trash noise helps greatly

Current playthrough I am at perk 3 for both hidden strike and shadows

 
Jugginator said:
investing in stealth does allow you to hide and make the zombies lose track of you
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Is there something I'm missing then in david's example? (Or am I hiding wrong?) The POI in his video (prison_02) in the first area where zombies come in from outside doesn't allow you to run and hide anywhere outside of the building without running past a mob of zombies first. I've tried hiding inside using a room nearby or a corner and they still find me, even when my stealth meter doesn't get any higher than 15 (and I'm also doing this at night).

I even tried covering all the windows/glass that goes outside with frame blocks to obscure their vision, but the AI still tells me they found me because they "saw" me

example: https://imgur.com/a/mPb9Xd8

this is with maxed from the shadows, full lv 5 military armor (using military stealth boots) all equipped with advanced muffled connectors and also reading relevant urban combat/night stalker books related to stealth and sneaking

his post for reference:





 
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NekoPawtato said:
Is there something I'm missing then in david's example? (Or am I hiding wrong?) The POI in his video (prison_02) in the first area where zombies come in from outside doesn't allow you to run and hide anywhere outside of the building without running past a mob of zombies first. I've tried hiding inside using a room nearby or a corner and they still find me, even when my stealth meter doesn't get any higher than 15 (and I'm also doing this at night).

I even tried covering all the windows/glass that goes outside with frame blocks to obscure their vision, but the AI still tells me they found me because they "saw" me

example: https://imgur.com/a/mPb9Xd8

this is with maxed from the shadows, full lv 5 military armor (using military stealth boots) all equipped with advanced muffled connectors and also reading relevant urban combat/night stalker books related to stealth and sneaking

his post for reference:
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There's something this example is missing: the breadcrumb trail (so it's called, good description anyway). So, if you just stand there like that then yes you'll be busted. What you'd need to do in that case is fallback to a room away from them, going back into sneak mode before you hit the corner and break line of sight, then shimmy your way into a dark spot and be still. They will likely still home into the last spot they saw you at (likely the doorway), but if you've done it correctly they should lose you. You just need enough time to hit the counter for them to lose track of you.

There have been cases on some places where I just move a few feet away while stealthed and stand there and they lose track. Stealth was never meant to be a "press crouch to be invisible", it would defeat any difficulty the game has.

 
Here's a case of this in a game, I wasn't sure where the example was but I went to a prison and did an example. Didn't feel like making a gif out of it sorry (and usually my gifs come out low quality lol), I ended the video a bit too short so I took another quick shot of me sitting there in stealth with a pile of zombies in front of my face and they didn't see me. Eventually, they would have wandered away.

First:




Stealth is possible in these cases, you just have to work a little bit with some clever tactics :D

 
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17 minutes ago, Jugginator said:

Here's a case of this in a game, I wasn't sure where the example was but I went to a prison and did an example. Didn't feel like making a gif out of it sorry (and usually my gifs come out low quality lol), I ended the video a bit too short so I took another quick shot of me sitting there in stealth with a pile of zombies in front of my face and they didn't see me. Eventually, they would have wandered away.

First:

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Thanks for the examples! The one I was particularly trying to get to work is the first room the player enters if following the "path" of the game (i.e. the closest entrance from the quest marker)

I tried to get "creative" by making my own "room" in sort of a spiral shape right outside where the trigger is, but I haven't been able to get it to work. I have tried standing up and running around for a second or two before crouch sprinting into my "room" but they still seem to be able to find me. I even tried standing up again and then quickly crouching to see if it would help. In my later examples I even blocked off the bathroom just so I could focus on the behavior of the zombies from outside (and hopefully give them more time to "lose" my trail).

example 1: https://imgur.com/a/gBJF2rp

example 2: https://imgur.com/a/1Nuewr1

example 3: https://imgur.com/a/C7E0tIc

If the problem here is that I am not giving the zombies enough time to "lose" my trail, then I believe this could be an issue with how the POI is set up. Since this is the first area the players encounter, there are no other "rooms" to run back to like what you showed.

Only other option is to go outside, which there are two separate groups of zombies that will block your way out (and if you're doing this during the day you'll probably have a hard time hiding from them outside too)

 
Focus on my movement very carefully, when I entered the other room (how I made noise hitting the door, the pause before stealth-jumping over to the other side), the key is to get them to place the breadcrumb trail to where you want them to be before hiding and moving away. If you stealth with them sensing you, it won't do you very much good since you're still leaving breadcrumbs behind. You don't always need to go to another room, but also not every single encounter is stealthable without being very creative. It takes a LOT of practice I admit, but it's doable. 

Where is that btw? coordinates, I can take a look

 
Jugginator said:
Focus on my movement very carefully, when I entered the other room (how I made noise hitting the door, the pause before stealth-jumping over to the other side), the key is to get them to place the breadcrumb trail to where you want them to be before hiding and moving away. If you stealth with them sensing you, it won't do you very much good since you're still leaving breadcrumbs behind. You don't always need to go to another room, but also not every single encounter is stealthable without being very creative. It takes a LOT of practice I admit, but it's doable. 

Where is that btw? coordinates, I can take a look
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Sure thing, here are the coords:

hvc38Oc.jpeg


To be honest, I've never actually perked into stealth on my playthroughs (only via creative/dm modes), so it could be that I just dont fully understand how it works. I'll re-watch the clips again

Thanks for taking a look into it!

 
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Jugginator said:
I wasn't sure where the example was but I went to a prison and did an example.
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Looking at the first vid, some thoughts..

I'm assuming it's an Attack-type volume as it is pitch black and everything seems to know where you are (you are getting GPS-tracked by the wights, first one hits the diagonal wall instead of you, second one lands a hit). It could be the new trigger type as well (3), I haven't tested how those work exactly. But assuming type two:

You reveal yourself at 15 secs in, to gain some speed I presume. From that point on, everything that sees you is following the normal agro rules. So, if you were to enter stealth at 16 secs in, right in the middle of that room, the zeds should likely lose you already. This is based on A20, so reality might differ. IF you're going back in, give it a whirl.

Then again, you're in god mode.. based on the audio you took two hits, bleeding from one. Not a horrible fate yet, but you could've gotten stunned which would've ended the escape. And the god mode does reduce your "crit taken" -chance for secondary hits.

And if you DON'T do the self-reveal (as in you stay in stealth the whole maneuver), the zeds that haven't "properly" seen you, won't reset as easily as the rest - which is quite counter-intuitive.

If you're still in testing it, try dropping in, leaving stealth in the middle of the room toggling headlight on&off, then re-stealthing in the middle of the room. Having LoS to everything, but the darkness should save you.

 
theFlu said:
Looking at the first vid, some thoughts..

I'm assuming it's an Attack-type volume as it is pitch black and everything seems to know where you are (you are getting GPS-tracked by the wights, first one hits the diagonal wall instead of you, second one lands a hit). It could be the new trigger type as well (3), I haven't tested how those work exactly. But assuming type two:

You reveal yourself at 15 secs in, to gain some speed I presume. From that point on, everything that sees you is following the normal agro rules. So, if you were to enter stealth at 16 secs in, right in the middle of that room, the zeds should likely lose you already. This is based on A20, so reality might differ. IF you're going back in, give it a whirl.

Then again, you're in god mode.. based on the audio you took two hits, bleeding from one. Not a horrible fate yet, but you could've gotten stunned which would've ended the escape. And the god mode does reduce your "crit taken" -chance for secondary hits.

And if you DON'T do the self-reveal (as in you stay in stealth the whole maneuver), the zeds that haven't "properly" seen you, won't reset as easily as the rest - which is quite counter-intuitive.

If you're still in testing it, try dropping in, leaving stealth in the middle of the room toggling headlight on&off, then re-stealthing in the middle of the room. Having LoS to everything, but the darkness should save you.
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Ah good catch on God mode, I was testing a few other things out and decided to do that real quick. But no, God mode doesn't affect that either way, it works the same. Just checked again to be sure, had that game loaded up still.

And yes, if the lighting conditions are right you can have them lose sight of you by going stealth and moving a foot or two to the side and being still. You'll get the same result

 
Jugginator said:
Ah good catch on God mode, I was testing a few other things out and decided to do that real quick. But no, God mode doesn't affect that either way, it works the same. Just checked again to be sure, had that game loaded up still.
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Hmm, God doesn't effect stealth but it does reset my A21 B317 "Armor Crit Resist" on the UI back to 0 (zero while unarmored). The number goes down when getting hit just like in A20, and I did some testing in A20 to confirm that it did seem to be in line with actual Crit chance - assuming the post-hit-number was the actual chance back then. In A21 something has chanced as I've taken crits from first hits before, but the UI number is still behaving the same.

 
theFlu said:
Hmm, God doesn't effect stealth but it does reset my A21 B317 "Armor Crit Resist" on the UI back to 0 (zero while unarmored). The number goes down when getting hit just like in A20, and I did some testing in A20 to confirm that it did seem to be in line with actual Crit chance - assuming the post-hit-number was the actual chance back then. In A21 something has chanced as I've taken crits from first hits before, but the UI number is still behaving the same.
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Yeah the crits thing is a whole different thing of course, but it's been worked on and should be fixed in a future A21 patch.

 
NekoPawtato said:
Sure thing, here are the coords:



To be honest, I've never actually perked into stealth on my playthroughs (only via creative/dm modes), so it could be that I just dont fully understand how it works. I'll re-watch the clips again

Thanks for taking a look into it!
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Here ya go. I was lazy and just kinda showing how the breadcrumb works and just used god mode to clear out debuffs at that one point, I made an effort to show how that system works with stealth toying with the zombies a bit. But, as you can see, it does indeed work. You just can't go crouch and expect the zombies to lose you in these cases. 

IMO stealth is almost at the point of being broken and needing a nerf.




 
3 minutes ago, Jugginator said:



Here ya go. I was lazy and just kinda showing how the breadcrumb works and just used god mode to clear out debuffs at that one point, I made an effort to show how that system works with stealth toying with the zombies a bit. But, as you can see, it does indeed work. You just can't go crouch and expect the zombies to lose you in these cases. 

IMO stealth is almost at the point of being broken and needing a nerf.

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Thanks! I was having trouble with the initial spawns when you get near the bathroom (around 2:03 in the video), I see you were also having trouble stealthing from them in that corner. Is it because you un-stealthed for a bit (i.e. leave the "breadcrumbs") and then re-stealthed that you were able to lose them?

 
NekoPawtato said:
Thanks! I was having trouble with the initial spawns when you get near the bathroom (around 2:03 in the video), I see you were also having trouble stealthing from them in that corner. Is it because you un-stealthed for a bit (i.e. leave the "breadcrumbs") and then re-stealthed that you were able to lose them?
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You're welcome, glad to help. It is a bit of a tricky skill to learn given the nature of this gigantic, open-world, destructible game we have.

That mistake was I went into that corner while the zombies had already seen me go there, so the stealthing didn't matter. I would have had to run past them, cut a left by the furniture there and stealthed behind that to break the line of sight. Breaking the line of sight is also a major key.

 
I went in there and tried playing around a bit; how do I reset the trap toilets?

"cr" closes their doors,

"sleeper r" re-spawns the couple zeds at the door and in the lobby,

but neither resets the toilet door trap?

 
That looks quite impressive, but when we say overpowered then we should note that you actually got killed 😉 (if we substract god mode)

Would you expect to clear the whole building with a high probability without getting killed? It seems for that you probably would have to do a perfect stealth rehide in each trigger location,  maybe 5 of them in this building alone. In the video I don't see you have any indication to determine whether your stealth worked until they are actually stepping on your shoes. So if it fails you are totally surrounded and I'd say you have to endure at least 5 hits and multiple conditions before you can jump out, if at all. Normal low ceiling and you are simply done for.  Stunned and it is guaranteed death as well.

 
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meganoth said:
when we say overpowered then we should note that you actually got killed
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That was sorta my point as well, but I didn't want to push it too hard as Juggs seems .. hmm, optimistic-by-profession? :) No shade, QA needs to remain optimistic to stay sane in any organization. Thanks for asking the questions I didn't want to look whiny over ;)

 
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