PC What was the point of the water change?

[Vaeliorin]

Though I agree with you that the daily harvest you need to do to get the most out of the collectors is a drawback to the current solution. I probably will just get myself more dew collectors so I can ignore them for days and immediately collect a bigger stack of water when I need water again. If TFP doesn't do it himself I'm sure there will be a mod to increase the size of the dew collector storage.

There's already a mod that lets you combine dew collectors into 3X and 9X versions, that can hold 3 stacks of 3/9 jars respectively.  Saves on the tedium and the ugliness.

Truth be told, I'd love for there to be some long, complicated, automatable process for purifying water.  I'd like a long, complicated automatable process for dealing with ore and other things as well (I enjoy setting up complicated factories like Mekanism Ore Processing.)  That doesn't seem to be in the cards for 7 Days (even with mods) but I'd love it if the devs added it for water (which would then presumably allow for mods to be made for ore processing and other things.)

In the end, I'm kind of indifferent on the water changes.  If filters were much more expensive or rare, I'd definitely dislike them, but as it stands I neither love nor hate them, just think they were kind of pointless.

 

[OccamsShavingCream]

One of their primary design goals was to remove glass jars as an item from the game and have them only exist as an inventory item just like all the other containers of consumables in the game. That was their starting point when they developed the water change. So it is unlikely that they will reinstate glass jars as a physical item even if they make alterations to water survival in the future.

The dew collector is not producing glass jars any more than stumps are producing glass jars. Instead, it is assumed that the player has a supply of glass jars and when you find honey in a stump you scoop it into one of your jars and when you collect water from the dew collector you scoop it into your glass jar. You aren'r finding a glass jar full of murky water in a toilet tank. Instead you are scooping out the water with one of your empty glass jars you always have on hand. It is what is called an abstraction. It is the same mechanic that is used for the clay bowls you eat your stew from.

It just takes a little time to get used to the mechanic and once your brain makes the adjustment it becomes the new normal. I've played without glass jars for months now and never think about it any longer while I play. I just know the glass jars exist in the background.

If this is the case, why aren't those jars we always have on hand available when we're next to a lake or pond?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but this is inconsistent, and one of the biggest strengths of this game has been that over each iteration the simulation of the world has gotten deeper and more and more internally consistent. This however feels like a step backwards.

 

[warmer]

I love the fact that I dont have to deal with jars or empty cans anymore. that was just a pain in the butt to inventory manage. 

 

[Riamus]

Yeah, I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice a little immersion for no more empty jars.  I don't even notice that they are gone anymore.  Just like I don't notice the missing candlesticks and trophies and fishing weights and cans.  All gone and I like that.

 

[Roland]

If this is the case, why aren't those jars we always have on hand available when we're next to a lake or pond?

Because that would obviously break the water survival gameplay of the early game so infinite collection of water from bodies of water is limited to just drinking. If you want a bottle of murky water to go into your inventory every time you press E while standing in water then you may as well just open the creative menu and give yourself all the water you want. It would amount to the same thing. 
 

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but this is inconsistent, and one of the biggest strengths of this game has been that over each iteration the simulation of the world has gotten deeper and more and more internally consistent. This however feels like a step backwards.

The jars are now more consistent with how every single other consumable container is treated. If consistency is what you want then you’ve got it. As for depth of simulation, I’d say it’s a mixed bag at best. Some aspects of the world have been deepened to simulation level but others are definitely at the arcade end of the spectrum. It all depends on what the devs see as important. Whatever they feel is important gets the royal treatment whereas those things they view as peripheral get abstracted, streamlined, and cut altogether. 

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Cue adding something to the game that makes glass very valuable.

 

[Zerginfestor]

Do you find anything entertaining about eating? Probably all survival games make you eat or you will have massive disadvantages or simply die. How much fun do you feel opening the inventory and clicking "use" on your stack of bacon&eggs twice a day? If fun were the only reason why food and eating were implemented in a survival game then there would simply be no food and water in survival games.

As it is, the solution fullfills everything it set out to do: Lots of players have a water shortage for the first few days (just like with food) and later on the water problem is solved (just like food). In fact in our game food and water seem almost indentical in their progression.

I do feel a small dopamine rush of using the very thing I crafted after finding it, but that required actually getting to that spot. So for bacon and Eggs, I needed to progress through magazines for my monke brain to finally understand how to crack some eggs into a pot with some pork fat, so it feels rewarding (especially with the amount it gives you as an early game dish blows grilled/charred meat out of the water, get owned, tier 0 cookers!), only thing to maximize it even further is someone somehow modding a new animation kit of eating actual eggs and bacon when choosing said dish. 

I suppose it does, but I...never had a problem with it, I had a nice, small stockpile of nearly 20 purified water from doing the new method of looting/exploring/questing and very little to no base building. I bet it is a huge problem with desert regions, though, so if you were unlucky to spawn in there, guess the first task is to leave the premises ASAP and build up a supply of water elsewhere before dipping back into the region. 

I'm with @Vaeliorin on this. The water change isn't bad, or good. To ME, it feels like nothing has really changed, except added tedium with no survival changes whatsoever. Also that mod sounds like a blessing. 

 

[Gideon]

In my opinion, this is better. Build 4 dew collectors. Forget water forever.

Agreed. Water and food both are a complete non issue for me shortly in to the game.

It does let me focus quite a bit more on the non-survival aspects.

 

[Survior]

Because that would obviously break the water survival gameplay of the early game so infinite collection of water from bodies of water is limited to just drinking. If you want a bottle of murky water to go into your inventory every time you press E while standing in water then you may as well just open the creative menu and give yourself all the water you want. It would amount to the same thing. 
 

So instead devs removed jars and made water filters common so the player could do exactly the thing you are describing via helmet mod.  Brilliant.

 

[Roland]

So instead devs removed jars and made water filters common so the player could do exactly the thing you are describing via helmet mod.  Brilliant.

I've found two filter mods for the helmet during the early game after countless restarts over the past year. I agree that finding an early helmet filter mod ruins the water survival gameplay but I wouldn't exactly call it a common occurrence. In both cases, I just sold it because I wanted to play the water survival game but I guess it is there for someone like you who doesn't. If you're finding it as a common item in all your restarts over the past two weeks you must be very happy. congrats.

 

[Razorpony]

The jars are now more consistent with how every single other consumable container is treated.

I would say this is true IF there were lakes and rivers of unaccessible gasoline and acid in the world but there are not. Shale can, in fact be brought back to your base for processing. Acid has always been loot only. The problem isn't mysterious jars it's internal logistical consistency. So far the only reasoning is "because we needed to make water arbitrarily harder." 

I guess there are people out there who find the hydration gameplay loop fun. Not me, but people. Somewhere. Out there. *waves hand* 

 

[Vaeliorin]

I've found two filter mods for the helmet during the early game after countless restarts over the past year. I agree that finding an early helmet filter mod ruins the water survival gameplay but I wouldn't exactly call it a common occurrence. In both cases, I just sold it because I wanted to play the water survival game but I guess it is there for someone like you who doesn't. If you're finding it as a common item in all your restarts over the past two weeks you must be very happy. congrats.

Obviously anecdotal, but my first two worlds in A21 I never found one.  In my current world, I have 5, one of which I found in the very first quest I did on Day 1.  Technically it was the second POI I did, since I cleared out a POI to live in before I did my first quest.

 

[Roland]

I would say this is true IF there were lakes and rivers of unaccessible gasoline and acid in the world but there are not.

I'm talking about the actual containers of consumables as they are represented in the game and yes, they are factually all consistent with each other now. Are the gathering methods of consumables all exactly the same? No. Is the history of what substance was loot only and what substance was harvestable or craftable the same? No. But I never claimed they were. I agree that for veterans who can't let go of the past, the history of how things used to be is probably a very important piece of this. I also agree that for someone who wants the method of extraction of different resources to be consistent then that piece is very important.

All I am telling the OP who asked the question was why TFP got rid of the physical representation of a container for a consumable and that is because it was the only one in the game and they wanted such empty containers to be consistent across the board. As to how water vs shale is collected or the historical differences in the game between water and acid, those things weren't the concern. But getting rid of jars was which is why I didn't want the OP to have false hope that jars would be reinstated by the developers in case the OP thought that getting rid of jars was simply collateral damage for the water change. It was, in fact, the impetus for the water changes. It's fine by me if you disagree with that design goal or think the game was better before. I'm just giving information about why the change occurred and why it is unlikely to be reversed.

I guess there are people out there who find the hydration gameplay loop fun. Not me, but people. Somewhere. Out there. *waves hand*

Not everyone thinks every aspect of a game is fun. Fun for 100% isn't a realistic goal. The developers and the team found it fun and have continued to find it fun for about a year (The water change was implemented about a year ago internally). They are developing the kind of game they like to play. There are other features that have been implemented and then removed before they ever were experienced by the public because the devs decided that they didn't like them once they got to play with them. It's not like they would have left it in after playing with it for a year if they didn't think it was fun. So there are some (pretty important) people you waved at. It's only been a couple of weeks with the public so we will see if there are others. So far there have been a lot of positive comments about the water changes on many social media platforms including here. Since you're waving at them maybe they'll say "Hi".

 

[Dmajor]

Personally, I enjoy the changes to the water. It's a much healthier system of getting water. Before, we would make 200 glass jars and once a week someone would do a "water run" to a hole in the ground. Then, the campfire would just spend 10 years boiling it all. The jars were annoying as all get out and I'm glad they're gone. With that said, could they tweak the dew collectors? Yes. Maybe you have to change the filter every so often? Maybe after like 30-50 jars or something.

 

[Survior]

.., I just sold it because I wanted to play the water survival game but I guess it is there for someone like you who doesn't. If you're finding it as a common item in all your restarts over the past two weeks you must be very happy. congrats...

Just because I don't want to play the game like you do, making several dew catcher abominations on my rooftop or whatever, doesn't mean I don't want survival game mechanics, I'd argue that most people who like the change in water actually are doing it because they don't want to do with inventory and survival mechanics. I guess I'd just ask you to be less judgemental, not everyone who disagrees with a change is doing so because they want something easier.  There is a lot of us who just think the old system  it's out right a better, (though not perfect) mechanic.  

But, I guess you don't want to deal with inventory management.  (See how that works?)

 

[Roland]

I'd argue that most people who like the change in water actually are doing it because they don't want to do with inventory and survival mechanics.

Possibly…or maybe they realize that being able to collect 20+ empty jars on day one which can then be filled all at once and all thrown into a fireplace without need for a cooking pot and then refilled (except by then you have 50+) for the rest of the game is not as much fun as building “abominations”. 
 

Im thinking that most people recognize that the old mechanic is far inferior. In my experience, people who never liked inventory management got a modlet to extend their backpack size ages ago. They haven’t been waiting around hoping TFP creates dew collectors to free up another slot….

 

[fragtzack]

I find dew collectors are good money sink. Later game, the new water system greatly simplifies operations.

Think of the  water changes this way:

Water is a bit more complicated the first few days, but in the long game the new water system pays huge dividend in time savings.

 The one quality of life mechanic I wish the devs would develop would be  a way to link an array of dew collectors into a single harvest container. 

Think of a hose running from 10 dew collectors into a single harvest container. Thus saving the survivor even more time late game.

 

[Skaarphy]

I agree with OP. The water situation might or might not have needed some improvement but this doesn't seem to be it. Dying of thirst while standing in a lake in a rainstorm shouldn't be possible but with A21 it is. Maybe TFP's priority shouldn't have been "we must remove glass jars and let's go from there" but "what can we do to improve the water situation while simulaneously increasing immersion?" Or at least not taking away from it. 

Instead what we got was the above mentioned nonsense plus the need to find a cooking pot ASAP - which should be possible just by going into the very first house you encounter but isn't. Understandably so because that would make things too easy, only this too comes at the price of a loss of immersion. A believable world, my tuchus, apparently.

And the weird thing is, it wasn't even such a hard task to accomplish, e.g. right-click on any body of water and you get a bottle of murky water, with a high chance for dysentery. Cook it to make it drinkable but still with a chance for dysentery, ditto for any related food items. Find a recipe to make it pure drinking water with zero chance for disentery.

Also, 95% of houses have a cooking pot in them because people have cooking pots. They might not have AK 47s but they have cooking pots.

edit: I just noticed, as a side benefit the three stages of water I mentioned could have finally made that iron stomach perk useful, or whatever it's called. You might want to invest into it when for a good long time in the game you don't have access to pure drinking water.        

 

[Riamus]

I agree with OP. The water situation might or might not have needed some improvement but this doesn't seem to be it. Dying of thirst while standing in a lake in a rainstorm shouldn't be possible but with A21 it is. Maybe TFP's priority shouldn't have been "we must remove glass jars and let's go from there" but "what can we do to improve the water situation while simulaneously increasing immersion?" Or at least not taking away from it. 

Instead what we got was the above mentioned nonsense plus the need to find a cooking pot ASAP - which should be possible just by going into the very first house you encounter but isn't. Understandably so because that would make things too easy, only this too comes at the price of a loss of immersion. A believable world, my tuchus, apparently.

And the weird thing is, it wasn't even such a hard task to accomplish, e.g. right-click on any body of water and you get a bottle of murky water, with a high chance for dysentery. Cook it to make it drinkable but still with a chance for dysentery, ditto for any related food items. Find a recipe to make it pure drinking water with zero chance for disentery.

Also, 95% of houses have a cooking pot in them because people have cooking pots. They might not have AK 47s but they have cooking pots.

edit: I just noticed, as a side benefit the three stages of water I mentioned could have finally made that iron stomach perk useful, or whatever it's called. You might want to invest into it when for a good long time in the game you don't have access to pure drinking water.        

Keep in mind that the traders all sell pots so it isn't a big deal to get one if you are having trouble finding one.  Regarding finding them, I find so many I'd hate to see more.  I currently have 3 campfires set up and all of them have 3 pots and 3 grills in them (easier to store them there than in a box, though 3 is now the max for whatever reason).  Any more pots and I'll have to put them in a box or scrap them or sell them.  They were useful for making the chem station but are just wasted loot at this point.

 

[Roland]

Dying of thirst while standing in a lake in a rainstorm shouldn't be possible but with A21 it is.

No its not. Just empty your hand and press E repeatedly to drink. If you have a vitamin and med bandage or painkillers you can drink even more.  Nobody has to die of thirst while standing in a lake in a rainstorm in A21.