PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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Thank you for all the detail. It seems you have been getting lots of magazines, probably the amount that would be expected at that time. So not a bug.

You say you can't build at the base because tools or items are missing. Which tools or items would that be exactly? 

If it is the cement mixer: Can't you work with cobblestone and upgrade later?

Is it something else? You mentioned the bellows somewhere else but that can't be it as it is optional and can be substituted easily by building a second forge.

Also I read your discussions with some posters and I noticed that you said that some of the scavengers would need to read magazines so they would find more of those same magazines. But that does not help at all, that was a false rumour. And to make sure I just looked at the XML and there is nothing that would increase loot change for magazines by reading those magazines. You need to put one or two points into the associated **perk** to get the boost to find more of those specific magazines.

For example if you want to stay in the base and still have one looter find more "Forge Ahead" books tell him to just put one measly perk point into Lockpicking (and/or Advanced Engineering) and he will get that boost as well. Which perk is applicable is always listed in the description of the magazine. I mean lockpicking is even beneficial for a looter and it helps with finding "forge ahead" books just like Advanced Engineering, I don't think you would need much convincing there.

Also, since you asked: Yes, the game officially supports 1 to 8 players, anything else is neither guaranteed nor balanced by TFP. No idea where it is written exactly, but that topic already came up a few times and this was always the official answer. It means that servers working with more players is not by design but because the game is flexible enough to work with more than 8 players. But especially balance can be wonky because nobody at TFP is testing those situation.

Usually server operators adapt through modding, server scripts and adjusting options. For example I have heard that many server operators reset chunks from time to time so unlooted buildings and unwrenched cars resurface in already looted areas. And TFP also added a config option (default off) so chunks can auto-reset if not visited for a while.
For practical purposes yes - we can work with cobblestone and upgrade later, absolutely, it's just that not having those other things available to us earlier on is just not as 'fun' for people who don't really have an interest in the going out and looting part of things. *Plus* - again we play as a larger crowd, so we have to essentially scale up our defenses and progress in order to be able to keep our heads above water towards the middle and late game when we're wanting to start pushing game stage 300.

If it is indeed 'officially' just 1 to 8 players then I must say it's worked just fine for bigger communities to build servers and player experiences that are beyond a small handful of people surviving in a base by themselves. There's a huge overlap in this game's playerbase with other titles like Project Zomboid, or even Ark: Survival Evolved and Minecraft, and so forth and all of those definitely support more than just 8 players - was working pretty good for those purposes, even if it's on accident, and it fit 7 Days in a 'neighborhood' of games, and this just feels like they're intentionally taking this into the 'we make this more for streamers' neighborhood. A player experience of 8 or less players just sounds lonely as hell to me.

Also, we've used mods in the past before - we just hate how it always introduces even more bugs than were already there to begin with. It's a matter of mitigating problems rather than spending the bit of spare time our admin team has by constantly troubleshooting with other players. 

Plus, I'll humbly say again: I liked the vanilla base game with default settings, as it was. It worked out great for a big chunk of my life that we'd almost ritualistically hop in every time an update came out and try the new stuff. 

 
No they are seen as exaggerated by certain folks on the team on folks who hold power here because they don't like bad feedback only positivity and no criticism.
It has nothing to do with positive or critical posts. It has to do with time after time after each alpha this person or that says the changes made their play style impossible only to be proven 100% wrong. My personal favorite was the supposed end of building underground bases that have since been proven completely possible..lol

the pimps can't bother bringing back learn by doing and making it into a hybrid with the attribute system like alot of mods have done
Why should they? The mods have already done it as you said. What’s wrong with having a variety of versions to play? If the devs just duplicate the mods then there’s just one version.  Why so angry about A21 if you already have access to the version you enjoy? It shouldn’t be long before you can have A21 visuals and performance with your favorite alternative version of player progression. Seems like these changes shouldn’t even really phase you or affect you honestly. 

This alpha so far feels like the last 2 years were spent making the game look pretty with little in the way of fun gameplay mechanics.
Why do you care if you already use mods? Seems like you could just ignore the vanilla updates at this point and just wait for your favorite mod update. Why so displeased in something you aren’t going to play?

There are plenty of people who are pleased so they can be happy and you can be happy. 
 

Huge thanks to the modders who keep this game alive and entertaining and fix up bugs and issues when they show up in mods. 
Exactly! You’re covered. Be at peace. 

 
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So the bonus to finding the magazines that crafters need in order to build better tools and weapons doesn't exist unless the builders quit working on the base and go loot stuff themselves. Thus the 'flow' of these magazines ends up coming in at rates that are disproportionate to their need. We *need* forging magazines, but the only way to find more of them is A. I leave base and go look more, neglecting my construction and organization of inventory or B. Someone 'wastes' magazines, by reading a bunch of them and then increases the likelihood they'll find them.
I don't see how option B helps anything- reading magazines doesn't increase your chances of finding more of them as far as I'm aware?  
.. Now, still a little wasteful, but less so- you aren't doing it already, you might have to ask one of the looters to invest 1 or 2 points into advanced engineering for the boost on those Forge Ahead mags - Luckily, if they already enjoy questing, they may have already sank some points into intellect tree- so hopefully it'll align with their build.

 
This alpha so far feels like the last 2 years were spent making the game look pretty with little in the way of fun gameplay mechanics. 
This is hilarious feedback because you can go back in these forums and on reddit and before the last 2 years people were @%$#ing that the reason this game was not getting any attention was because it looked terrible like a PS1 game and people were begging for graphical upgrades so it wasn't offensive to look at as well as decapitations.  TFP delivered all these things and ironically about halfway through people started telling them that the reason the game wasn't more successful is because they spent too much time on the visuals instead of game mechanics.

I literally use that whole flipflop as an example when talking to people on other games on how game communities are.  And as much as im a more mechanical player myself even I have to acknowledge the visuals make a big difference.

 
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Why should they? The mods have already done it as you said. What’s wrong with having a variety of versions to play? If the devs just duplicate the mods then there’s just one version.  Why so angry about A21 if you already have access to the version you enjoy? It shouldn’t be long before you can have A21 visuals and performance with your favorite alternative version of player progression. Seems like these changes should even really phase you or affect you honestly. 
You just don't get it, Roland. It shouldn't be on the modders to tailor the game to individual play styles, The Devs should be making the game we want. All of us want.
A game that's newbie friendly, but stays fresh for the 5,000-hour vet! A toggle progression system for those who like LBR, LBD, or my personal favorite, Learn by Bananas. Understandably I can't reveal too much, but it is BANANAS to say the least! Also, it needs to deliver on Bandits, Behemoths, and Ziplines- Yesterday. Thank you.
(I hope people can still take jokes!)

 
It has nothing to do with positive or critical posts. It has to do with time after time after each alpha this person or that says the changes made their play style impossible only to be proven 100% wrong. My personal favorite was the supposed end of building underground bases that have since been proven completely possible..lol
Yeah, this one is one of the few things that actually cheeses my biscuits.  When people were struggling with the new AI of A17 I made a couple reddit posts and videos detailing how the new AI worked.  People decided "ok onlee maze bases viable now" from that.  Then I made like a dozen different style bases, one for each one people said were not viable before and made videos of me showcasing them and defending them.  People only doubled down that only maze bases were viable.  Nothing like giving them video proof of everything still working and having people just parrot the same wrong thing anyways.

Some gamers are their own worst enemies.

 
As I said before - it's a great update for solo players and small groups
It's great for solo but the problem as you've described it also happens for small groups in wilderness or Navezgane spawns. I was about to suggest trying it with the chunk reset on but realized that the increased foot traffic of any large group would keep them from respawning anyway. 

Maybe if your group could organize better to stay out of certain areas long enough or make sure they're taking quests on the opposite sides of town... /sarcasm

 
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Here is an interesting poll external to this forum community done by Nerds Guns and Steel. Just a first impression poll of 3100 players. 😀
Yes because youtubers communities aren't biased lol. Love his channel but that poll is ridiculous. This update is mediocre.

Heck he has proven with his let's play so far that by day 8 you can have quality 6 items. So much for madmoles we don't want people getting OP fast by crafting 500 duct tape because was is easy to get nonsense.

So unless the pimps nerf drop rates, redo the skill system again or do who knows what the meta or strategy is  spend a few days leveling and questing in forest biome, get bike and after day 7 horde go into wasteland, loot cars and get OP gear easy. Kinda makes all those magazines folks have to collect kinda useless if most of it can be bypassed so easily.

 
Yes because youtubers communities aren't biased lol. Love his channel but that poll is ridiculous. This update is mediocre.

Heck he has proven with his let's play so far that by day 8 you can have quality 6 items. So much for madmoles we don't want people getting OP fast by crafting 500 duct tape because was is easy to get nonsense.

So unless the pimps nerf drop rates, redo the skill system again or do who knows what the meta or strategy is  spend a few days leveling and questing in forest biome, get bike and after day 7 horde go into wasteland, loot cars and get OP gear easy. Kinda makes all those magazines folks have to collect kinda useless if most of it can be bypassed so easily.
Thanks for your opinion. I really hope once your favorite mods get updated for A21 you’ll have a version of the game you can be happy playing. 

 
Thanks for your opinion. I really hope once your favorite mods get updated for A21 you’ll have a version of the game you can be happy playing. 
Not just me but alot of folks. Btw there is another poll in general discussion where it's over 50% in favor of the old learn by doing system or does that poll not count?

Would also be nice to get an answer as to what the pimps will do about that massive problem since folks can bypass the whole tool and weapons magazine nonsense with that simple trick.  Why waste time looking for magazines to craft tools and weapons when you can just stroll into the wasteland and loot vehicles for OP gear lol.

 
Yes because youtubers communities aren't biased lol. Love his channel but that poll is ridiculous. This update is mediocre.

Heck he has proven with his let's play so far that by day 8 you can have quality 6 items. So much for madmoles we don't want people getting OP fast by crafting 500 duct tape because was is easy to get nonsense.

So unless the pimps nerf drop rates, redo the skill system again or do who knows what the meta or strategy is  spend a few days leveling and questing in forest biome, get bike and after day 7 horde go into wasteland, loot cars and get OP gear easy. Kinda makes all those magazines folks have to collect kinda useless if most of it can be bypassed so easily.


This is so silly. TFP made the wasteland with better enemies+loot exactly for veterans like this youtuber so they have the choice to skip the novice-friendly normal progression and get on the fast track. In your version it sounds like the better loot in the wasteland was an undiscovered bug introduced by the janitor. 😁

 
Not just me but alot of folks. Btw there is another poll in general discussion where it's over 50% in favor of the old learn by doing system or does that poll not count?
I’ll let you convey my thanks to all of them but I’m just talking to you. The poll here counts for sure. I even defended the author for making it. 
 

What’s interesting about the polls is that YouTube comments are historically more critical and hostile than these forums are and yet 3100 players showed an overwhelming positive first reaction. The 46 people(so far) in the poll here show a more negative reaction where most people are viewed as being more supportive of TFP decisions.

Would also be nice to get an answer as to what the pimps will do about that massive problem since folks can bypass the whole tool and weapons magazine nonsense with that simple trick.  Why waste time looking for magazines to craft tools and weapons when you can just stroll into the wasteland and loot vehicles for OP gear lol.
I don’t think they’ll do anything. They are fine with players going to the wasteland and looting and questing for rewards that bypass the crafting. It’s just an optional path.  It doesn’t make the crafting progression useless if a lot of players want to go that route. 
 

It’s funny that critics like you accuse TFP of shutting down player game play choices when TFP has never claimed that they want to force players to play the game only one way. Now it is YOU calling for TFP to shut down an entire option to loot in the wasteland because you see crafting as useless. 
 

The answer is that TFP is happy to allow players to either craft, or loot, or purchase, or quest, or any combination to progress.

 
Would also be nice to get an answer as to what the pimps will do about that massive problem since folks can bypass the whole tool and weapons magazine nonsense with that simple trick.  Why waste time looking for magazines to craft tools and weapons when you can just stroll into the wasteland and loot vehicles for OP gear lol.
It's risk vs reward.  Even the base game is murdering the fack out of people right now.  The Wastelands is too much for 90% of the community to handle until, ironically, they are more geared.  Reddit has had several threads about the game being more difficult and people dying alot but generally liking the new challenge (with the exception of some zombie crawl/duck/dodge behavior in niche scenarios)

 
For practical purposes yes - we can work with cobblestone and upgrade later, absolutely, it's just that not having those other things available to us earlier on is just not as 'fun' for people who don't really have an interest in the going out and looting part of things. *Plus* - again we play as a larger crowd, so we have to essentially scale up our defenses and progress in order to be able to keep our heads above water towards the middle and late game when we're wanting to start pushing game stage 300...

 


Hmm, perhaps the solution is to give those who enjoy hanging out at the base more fun activities to engage in while they wait for the mags to arrive from the looters...🤔

 
Yes because youtubers communities aren't biased lol. Love his channel but that poll is ridiculous. This update is mediocre.
So if the results of a poll don't agree with your opinion, it's a ridiculous poll and invalid?  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this game as well as everything else.  An opinion is not fact.  It is just what you think and cannot be either right or wrong.  And is someone disagrees with you, they are neither right nor wrong.  Regardless of YouTube's community being the way they are (I certainly don't care for them normally), that is still 3100+ votes greatly in favor of the update.  Of course, these are people who are purposely going to a streamer who at least most of them like (some might not know the streamer and just randomly chose to watch them) and so they are more likely to vote positively for that reason.  Even so, that's a pretty good number of votes to disregard.  And it is still 3100+ people who overwhelmingly like the update.  And their opinions are just as valid as yours or anyone else's.

The thing I don't get is that if you read all the posts here, you'll find that the people who complain about the update, or the game in general, very often resort to name calling, angry posts, blaming people, and so on rather than providing constructive criticism.  Is it really that hard to give constructive criticism?  You can state why you don't like XYZ without demeaning others, being dismissive of other peoples' opinions, belittling people, name calling, or my favorite - threatening to stop playing the game or threatening to use mods.  You can absolutely get your point across without such theatrics.

To be clear, I've been critical of some of the changes myself and initially came to hate the update because of what appears to have been a combination of bad RNG and a bug in a save.  After starting a couple new saves, that went away and now I'm back to enjoying the game.  Yet I posted my frustration over what was going on in that save and I've posted my critiques about the magazines being unbalanced as well as other things.  I'm not, as someone was so nice to call me, a "white knight".  I simply give my own opinions on things, whether good or bad.  And everyone has the right to do so.  There's no reason to try to make it seem like your opinion is more worthwhile than someone else's because it really isn't.  All opinions are equally valid because they are opinions and not facts.

 
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