PC Nothing says open world survival crafting like being forced to run quests.....

[Kosmic Kerman]

Even running only wilderness poi's is still just running around and looting which you have to do or you can't advance in the game. It's just very limiting for no particular reason. Every single point is now just a little mini quest regardless of if you pick it up from the trader or not. They make all zombies hidden in walls or closets so you can't avoid them. You can't get creative and try to cut through walls cause they built poi's around not being able to do that now. You literally have to trudge through each point like a mini dungeon. I just don't get why. The game has so many options that could all be viable and fun and different playstyles but they are hellbent on making you play the game a certain way. It's baffling to me.

The answer is simple. TFP are designing the game they have fun playing. They are not creating the game to your, or my, specifications. There are  plenty of open world/sandbox/survival games out there. The problem is a lot of them are incredibly boring, to me at least, because there is no game loop. In 7d2d part of the game loop is looting houses and doing quests. It just is what it is. 

 

[VALL]

I get that they are making the game. It's just a weird direction to take after 10 years of development. They also sold it as an open world survival horde crafting game. Now it's more like diablo. Go loot a bunch of stuff. Get slightly better gear. Repeat. Huge lack of depth there. The crafting and survival have become second fiddle to just looting. The old systems at least offered some variety of gameplay. 

 

[Maxwar]

They put all the efforts into POIs and you just want to avoid them or cut through the walls? /s

Seriously, it's the overall direction that they are taking the game since around A17. It's their game and I for sure got my money's worth already. Now modded is the way to go for me.

 That is close to my take on it. They made the game highly customizable and moddable. A large portion of the active players use mods.  I see vanilla as a base platform that players can tweak and if all the settings are not enough, then mod. The game was designed to be like this and I think it the reason it is so good. TFP continually improve the hard coded aspects of the game that cannot be modded easily, making the platform better with each new release. The game comes with a default flavor (vanilla) that if you don't like or get tired of you can just mod. I play Vanilla a bit with each new release and appreciate it for what it is, I always felt that Vanilla was fun and well balanced but it only has so much content. So after I am done exploring the latest vanilla I will typically play overhaul mods until the next alpha. Currently I have not gotten into A21 more than superficially as I want to finish a A20 Undead legacy playthrough first. 

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

I get that they are making the game. It's just a weird direction to take after 10 years of development. They also sold it as an open world survival horde crafting game. Now it's more like diablo. Go loot a bunch of stuff. Get slightly better gear. Repeat. Huge lack of depth there. The crafting and survival have become second fiddle to just looting. The old systems at least offered some variety of gameplay. 

The game has been about looting for a long time now. Even when you primarily crafted your tools and weapons, you still had to loot the parts. The difference was you were looting mostly empty buildings. That’s not what TFP wanted so they changed that and made buildings more challenging and more rewarding.  What you are looking for is a fundamentally different game than what 7d2d is.  The core game loop is quest and build a horde base. You can obviously not play this way but it’s going to be much more challenging. And of course you can no longer just mine for XP to improve your crafting skills. 

 

[Survior]

The answer is simple. TFP are designing the game they have fun playing. They are not creating the game to your, or my, specifications. There are  plenty of open world/sandbox/survival games out there. The problem is a lot of them are incredibly boring, to me at least, because there is no game loop. In 7d2d part of the game loop is looting houses and doing quests. It just is what it is. 

This gives absolutely no explanation (*as there is none*) as why you would kill game loops for crafting/farming as they have done, you literally don't have to do those things if you don't want to but, they want to force you play the game in a specific way, that's not a sandbox, it's more linear looter shooter. Why kill the fun of a certain group of people? A lot of people would never touch farming or make their crafting base beyond basic survival needs. Why kill it for others?

TLDR: Making the game fun for one group didn't require killing the fun for another group.

 

[BFT2020]

If you don't like the new crafting system, mod it out.  Just takes a bit of effort and not really hard to do.  Heck, you just need to go back to A20 progression file and look at how they tied recipe unlocks to perks.

Schematics are still in the game so you can use the current items file as a reference.

Personally, I am loving the new crafting system.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

This gives absolutely no explanation (*as there is none*) as why you would kill game loops for crafting/farming as they have done, you literally don't have to do those things if you don't want to but, they want to force you play the game in a specific way, that's not a sandbox, it's more linear looter shooter. Why kill the fun of a certain group of people? A lot of people would never touch farming or make their crafting base beyond basic survival needs. Why kill it for others?

TLDR: Making the game fun for one group didn't require killing the fun for another group.

This isn’t about you. It’s about the game TFP wants to create. Limiting crafting skill progression to looting books drastically changes the leveling curve. Obviously they found that way of leveling more enjoyable. It’s not about what you or I want. Vanilla is not supposed to be all things for all people.   Vanilla is how TFP want it to be. Mods are for those who want a different experience. 

This isn’t about you. It’s about the game TFP wants to create. Limiting crafting skill progression to looting books drastically changes the leveling curve. Obviously they found that way of leveling more enjoyable. It’s not about what you or I want. Vanilla is not supposed to be all things for all people.   Vanilla is how TFP want it to be. Mods are for those who want a different experience. 

Rereading your post it seems you are arguing there is no legitimate reason for the change. That’s obviously not true. The change drastically changes the progression curve. The fact that some players preferred not to loot or liked to power level does not make the change less valid. It just means those players need to adapt to the new system or mod it out. 

 

[VALL]

This gives absolutely no explanation (*as there is none*) as why you would kill game loops for crafting/farming as they have done, you literally don't have to do those things if you don't want to but, they want to force you play the game in a specific way, that's not a sandbox, it's more linear looter shooter. Why kill the fun of a certain group of people? A lot of people would never touch farming or make their crafting base beyond basic survival needs. Why kill it for others?

TLDR: Making the game fun for one group didn't require killing the fun for another group.

Well said.

Rereading your post it seems you are arguing there is no legitimate reason for the change. That’s obviously not true. The change drastically changes the progression curve. The fact that some players preferred not to loot or liked to power level does not make the change less valid. It just means those players need to adapt to the new system or mod it out. 

Right. Again the point is that you took all xp and progression away from survival and crafting and moved it all to running around and looting. Very much a complete 180 for the game. Not sure I understand it. We are just gonna be playing fortnite after a while.

I'll still play heavily modded versions of the game. I think the graphical and art improvement are mostly top notch. Random Gen seems much improved. They did a lot of stuff right, don't get me wrong. I just wish it was a survival and crafting game and not whatever this has become.

 

[Survior]

This isn’t about you. It’s about the game TFP wants to create. Limiting crafting skill progression to looting books drastically changes the leveling curve. Obviously they found that way of leveling more enjoyable. It’s not about what you or I want. Vanilla is not supposed to be all things for all people.   Vanilla is how TFP want it to be.

This is such genius logic it should be on the box, or the front page of the web site. "7d2d isn't about players, it's about the devs and what they think is cool -- recently.."

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

This is such genius logic it should be on the box, or the front page of the web site. "7d2d isn't about players, it's about the devs and what they think is cool -- recently.."

Would be way better if the web site said “We cater to everyone‘s whims and desires. Yes our game has no core concept or direction and none of our systems make sense or work together but that is a price we are willing to pay. “ 

 

[Survior]

Would be way better if the web site said “We cater to everyone‘s whims and desires. Yes our game has no core concept or direction and none of our systems make sense or work together but that is a price we are willing to pay. “ 

half of that statement is actually already true now since you get a new game type every year

 

[meganoth]

One sentence to ignore 90% of the op's comments.... Not helpful at all.

Can't say anything about that. Can't say anything about that. You don't need to do quests. You can just loot buildings, craft and build. Can't say anything about that. Can't say anything about that. Can't say anything about that.

Is that better now?

Seriously, his rant didn't really say if he just doesn't want to quest or not enter POIs. Or what else he wants, the game also allows a player just to craft and build after all. I thought it a good way to get from rant to a conversation though when I checked back here right now the thread already had moved on.

 

[boban]

A large portion of the active players use mods. 

I wish to see some stats for that really. From what I heard mods are something that (for most games) is totally not economically to make, just show how you love your dedicated fanbase. I heard numbers ranging from 0.5% to 2% of players that use mods (I think the biggest quote I've seen was 8% for Skyrim, but I don't know how true it is).

 

[Exxodous]

What is it exactly you feel you can't do any longer? Gather infinite water from the river?  Have you tried this?  Walk to the waters edge, open creative menu and give yourself 10000 murky water, close menu.   It's about as challenging and time consuming as getting water used to be.

 

[VALL]

Can't say anything about that. Can't say anything about that. You don't need to do quests. You can just loot buildings, craft and build. Can't say anything about that. Can't say anything about that. Can't say anything about that.

Is that better now?

Seriously, his rant didn't really say if he just doesn't want to quest or not enter POIs. Or what else he wants, the game also allows a player just to craft and build after all. I thought it a good way to get from rant to a conversation though when I checked back here right now the thread already had moved on.

So you admit you are just trolling. I never asked for a conversation. You are just assuming that. I am simply giving the developers feedback from someone that has bought the game and played it a long time. If you want me to explain my reasoning I am happy to. As I already explained every POI *IS* a quest now. Regardless of weather or not you pick it up from the trader. You can't craft without finding randomly placed thousands of books. Just not very immersive or fun. Very forcefull way to force people into POI's for a game that should be a more open concept. That is my opinion. Shrug. Hope you have a great day.

 

[Exxodous]

So you admit you are just trolling. I never asked for a conversation. You are just assuming that. I am simply giving the developers feedback from someone that has bought the game and played it a long time. If you want me to explain my reasoning I am happy to. As I already explained every POI *IS* a quest now. Regardless of weather or not you pick it up from the trader. You can't craft without finding randomly placed thousands of books. Just not very immersive or fun. Very forcefull way to force people into POI's for a game that should be a more open concept. That is my opinion. Shrug. Hope you have a great day.

But you can craft without ever finding one book,  I think what you mean is you can't craft top quality items by mining rocks all day and spending skill points.  Maybe that's why they are called skill points instead of recipe points?  

 

[Scyris]

You don't need to do quests. You can just loot buildings, craft and build.

Right...So the only way to survive is to run through poi's constantly. Thats limiting the game to only 1 type of playstyle. Why? All I was saying.

Also what makes you think Undead Legacy won´t use those magazines aswell in A21? Maybe subquake likes the system and keeps it in UL.

Fingers crossed. Hopefully he has better taste.

Didn't you get he memo? thats TFPs thing since a17: removing choice from the player to force a certain playstyle.

Stat system still sucks, its 5 level gates now instead of the 1 they were trying to fix in a16.4 So good job on making the problem worse. A21 makes this even worse with the removal of sex t-rex, instead of having to waste some points into str, now I need to waste points in all 5 stats if I wanna get stamina costs down with everything.. Good job. Now if Sex t-rex was put back in str AND you keep the ones in the weapon lines in other stats that'd be nice, so you as the player could choose, but... as I said, tfp has a thing with removing choice from the player.  Its the same with removing underground bases as zombies can dig, you did this, but then made "smart" zombies you can you super easly exploit the AI of, which means you can still dodge bloodmoon if you want to. All they did was take away a playstyle for no real reason.

Anyway, as for the learn by reading, I am kinda hoping this transforms into learn by doing for the weapons, like you need 20 club skill to learn say pummel pete 2 instead of it being a stat thing. Could also tie headshot damage into the action skill as well. Look at Darkness Falls TFP, I mean you stole enough stuff from that mod(and other mods) that you deff have played it. The modder fixed a16.4 skill system problems perfectly, its literally all you had to do to fix it. Instead you go to this stat system no one wanted, and is much worse than the old a16.4 system.

On the flip side, I personally like learn by reading, why you ask? its rather simple, it makes each game different. Before learn by reading i'd always get the same stats, the same recipies always at the same level because it was the optimal path, however now, its randomized, so I have to adapt to what I happened to learn in my exploration. Makes each game play a bit differently. My current game my club craft skill is like.. 2 books, I've basically not found any and its my main melee weapon even have 1 in pummel pete too. Not complaining about this, I rather like it, the randomness of it. Sometimes I get the forge on day 1 in a21, other times its not till day 3 or 4. I remember back in a15 and below you couldn't just spend a perk point to unlock the forge you HAD to find the book, I've had games where it was week 2+ and I still have not found the book, or a poi with a working forge.

 

[BFT2020]

If it bothers you so much, mod back in Sex Rex.  Personally, I like the fact I don't have to spec in Strength anymore to max out stamina reduction for knives or batons.  I also like that I can now speed up any weapon without having to spec into agility.

TBD is dead, devs have stated countless times it is not coming back.

 

[Maxwar]

I wish to see some stats for that really. From what I heard mods are something that (for most games) is totally not economically to make, just show how you love your dedicated fanbase. I heard numbers ranging from 0.5% to 2% of players that use mods (I think the biggest quote I've seen was 8% for Skyrim, but I don't know how true it is).

I don't know how we could get reliable stats. Admittedly I said that without actual backing numbers but I would bet you a mega crush that 7DTD have significantly more mod users than most games. Maybe not as much as Skyrim though.  

The catch here is that what I meant by "active players" are the people who play it regularly on PC. As opposed to people who have it sitting in their steam library but did not play it very much or at all. And let's not talk about the console players, poor folks.   

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I wish to see some stats for that really. From what I heard mods are something that (for most games) is totally not economically to make, just show how you love your dedicated fanbase. I heard numbers ranging from 0.5% to 2% of players that use mods (I think the biggest quote I've seen was 8% for Skyrim, but I don't know how true it is).

Hard to tell i guess, but the Darkness Falls Discord has about 3K members. Doesn´t mean all of them play the mod, but also not everyone who plays it joined the discord. I am the only one i our group of 5 who is in the discord and we play it regulary.