PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[DocRussel]

Players can build working vehicles out of spare parts but think the A20 damage is fair?  This is a survival game, not Mario Kart.    All vehicles are the equivalent of pipe weapons, not tier 6 level 3 weapons.  Perhaps that could be the compromise.  The 2 wheel vehicles SHOULD take a ton of damage, but give the 4 wheeler with that reinforced front end a significant reduction in damage taken.  The trade off is that it still uses a lot of fuel and could be more costly to build.

 

[Jost Amman]

That is correct but you can collide with the driftwood on the ground. 

Try that in real life with your car, and then come back and tell me how much you spent on repairs...    :car:             eep:   :bump:

Those are like tree chunks for all intents and purposes. You should get collision damage!

 

[RipClaw]

Try that in real life with your car, and then come back and tell me how much you spent on repairs...    :car:             eep:   :bump:

Those are like tree chunks for all intents and purposes. You should get collision damage!

My question is simply "How much damage?". That is the only thing that interests me.

It does not bother me that I have to repair the vehicle from time to time. I go through so many repair kits in every game, the few for the vehicle are not worth mentioning. The question for me is simply whether I should rather take 2 or 10 repair kits for a trip through the desert.
 

 

[Gamida]

I like the change to vehicle damage.  It's a great compromise that adds gameplay and decision making and is potentially scalable.

In A20, It sucked so much that you could run over a zombie a million times and not kill them, nor would you ever really have to repair your vehicle.

In A21, your vehicle can be used as a weapon again but at a cost a player can plan around (e.g. repair kits, perk, etc.)  Also encourages the use of roads which is a great tie in for the new roadside content that was added. 

If the damage is too harsh, I'm sure it can be balanced multiple different ways, just needs feedback.  

Wait. I never even noticed that. Do you mean we can kill zoms again by hitting with vehicle if we don't mind the trade off of it doing damage?

Don't mind that at all.

 

[Roland]

Does this mean that the damage values have been increased for the stream? That the damage is too high is one of the criticisms I heard in pretty much all the summaries of the stream. It would be really nice to know what, for example, the damage looks like after driving through the Wasteland or the Desert without intentionally causing damage.

Asked.

No, it means that if you don't normally ram into obstacles while you drive, you will have to repair your vehicles much, much less.

Answered.

Those streams are the opinions of those streamers who haven't played A21 yet. You could probably find at least a dozen people who think that the hunger rate is too high or that stamina usage is too high or that radiated zombie regeneration is too high. If those people had the talent and equipment to stream then you could say pretty much all the streams are saying those things as well. I do have to repair my vehicles more often than A20 but not that much more often. If they reduce the damage then there will be almost no significant difference and then why have the feature?  People have been asking for a difference between going off road and staying on the roads and now there is one.

 

[beerfly]

People have been asking for a difference between going off road and staying on the roads and now there is one.

If a vehicle explodes, would we lose all the inventory in it ?  

The new vehicle damage thing is good and we need it, we are not tourists, but survivalists. No matter how much effort we give to go somewhere for loot, there must be this thing that we can lose everything on the way back home, if not being careful forethought to avoid accidents.

 

[zztong]

I'm cool with seeing how the vehicles play, but I do hope:

(1) Running into a shopping cart does not continue to be like running into a block of granite, and

(2) That if the vehicle has spikes and a ram plate that running into a fleshy zombie doesn't hurt [the vehicle] too much. Otherwise, could I please take off the spikes and ram plate so that getting around in the wilderness was easier?

 

[Laz Man]

Wait. I never even noticed that. Do you mean we can kill zoms again by hitting with vehicle if we don't mind the trade off of it doing damage?

Don't mind that at all.

Yes, you can certainly kill things alot faster with your vehicle in A21.

During the dev stream, I wish they spent alittle more time looking at the map layout while in game and not just the previewer.

There are alot of cool things to appreciate when you look closely.  Here is a zoomed up image I snipped from the stream vod of one of the country towns on their 6k map.  Sorry about the blurriness...

 

[Roland]

If a vehicle explodes, would we lose all the inventory in it ?  

Yes you would. But people are acting like there is a chance for the vehicle to explode at any bit of damage. You have to let your vehicle get into negative numbers and then the chance for exploding starts and it is only a chance. Why would someone let it go that far?  Like ever?

 

[RipClaw]

Asked.

Answered.

Yes it was answered but by someone who has the same information as me. Not by someone who can ask the developers if for the purpose of the demonstration the damage numbers were increased and thereby possibly a wrong first impression was created. 

Those streams are the opinions of those streamers who haven't played A21 yet. You could probably find at least a dozen people who think that the hunger rate is too high or that stamina usage is too high or that radiated zombie regeneration is too high. If those people had the talent and equipment to stream then you could say pretty much all the streams are saying those things as well. I do have to repair my vehicles more often than A20 but not that much more often. If they reduce the damage then there will be almost no significant difference and then why have the feature?  People have been asking for a difference between going off road and staying on the roads and now there is one.

Yes they haven't played A21 yet so they have to rely on information from the developer streams.

Running over a horde of zombies or repeatedly driving into a wall is a good way to show what a badly damaged vehicle looks like. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell the player if he should pack a few more repair kits in the future when driving through the desert or wasteland. 

 

[beerfly]

Yes you would. 

Awesome !

 

[beerfly]

Why would you let it go that far?  Like ever?

A matter of moments, we shouldn`t be safe at any moment, including whats in the vehicle. 

 

[Roland]

Yes it was answered but by someone who has the same information as me.

I only meant that his answer was correct. 
 

 Unfortunately, it doesn't tell the player if he should pack a few more repair kits in the future when driving through the desert or wasteland. 

Of course you should. Why wouldn’t you?  Don’t you usually have a few repair kits on hand for weapons and tools? All you need to do is add more to the same stack. I actually already used my vehicle inventory for a slot devoted to repair kits anyway before this change. Why does a developer need to suggest packing repair kits when going to the wasteland for a player to figure out that they should?

If you notice a wandering horde and want to take them out with your car I suggest repairing it to full strength and then watching the percentage carefully as you kill the horde so you can drive a ways away and repair as needed before continuing to kill. 
 

I suggest eating when you’re hungry <shrug>
 

 

[NoMan]

It had been a very long session. I had cleared, looted and stripped Higashi Tower, at night, in the snow. I was ready to go home. Old habits kicked in. I hopped in my car and hit the gas. I remembered the Vehicle Damage mod about a half-second before I exploded. The vanilla penalty is nothing. 

True confession, this was the one and only time I've used the Backup Mod to revert a game that wasn't bugged. I am a cheater.

I am very excited to play A21.

 

[RipClaw]

Of course you should. Why wouldn’t you?  Don’t you usually have a few repair kits on hand for weapons and tools?

Yes I have. Usually half a stack. If I knew that I needed more I would then also pack more. That is my whole thinking. I am simply interested in information.
 

Why does a developer need to suggest packing repair kits when going to the wasteland for a player to figure out that they should?

The developer doesn't have to but when you see "The developer just drove over 5 scrap iron blocks and the vehicle has lost 25% durability" you prepare differently than if the vehicle has only lost 5% durability. It is only about being able to draw conclusions from what you have seen.
 

 

[Jost Amman]

The developer doesn't have to but when you see "The developer just drove over 5 scrap iron blocks and the vehicle has lost 25% durability" you prepare differently than if the vehicle has only lost 5% durability. It is only about being able to draw conclusions from what you have seen.

I think your interest in numbers won't help you enjoy the game, in my opinion. Why would any player want to know every single numeric and detail about the game before playing it, instead of having fun discovering everything by himself in the actual game while playing?

I mean, you're free to ask any number of details if you so like, but my suggestion is to try it yourself when A21 is out, so that you can experience at least a bit of the thrill that you had when you first started playing 7D2D and you knew nothing.  

 

[Roland]

Yes I have. Usually half a stack. If I knew that I needed more I would then also pack more. That is my whole thinking. I am simply interested in information.
 

The developer doesn't have to but when you see "The developer just drove over 5 scrap iron blocks and the vehicle has lost 25% durability" you prepare differently than if the vehicle has only lost 5% durability. It is only about being able to draw conclusions from what you have seen.
 

Suggestion: Take a full stack

Suggestion: Drive around the 5 scrap iron blocks instead of over them.

People are letting their worries overcome their good sense. Why shouldn't you be punished for driving willy nilly over and on top of and through every obstacle you come across? Why shouldn't you be rewarded for driving well and effectively by avoiding such things? Going off-road and avoiding damage in the forest, snow, and desert biomes will be relatively easy. Going off-road in the wasteland and avoiding damage is going to be harder and you are going to pay for the choice to do so in repair kits. How MANY repair kits will depend on your skill as a driver-- as it should. If you aren't very skilled as a driver and don't want to have to repair a lot then stick to the roads and paths with your vehicle.  This is classic risk/reward gameplay with player skill factoring into the costs. This is game design 101.  Nerfing the damage down to where it is negligible and players don't have to use skills and good decisions and good planning and it doesn't matter because at most you'll just take a bit of damage that you can always repair when you get back to base isn't a good feature. There needs to be actual risk and an actual cost for how and where you choose to drive.

 

[unholyjoe]

@Roland

just think... when we get to alpha 22 and some more new stuff and changes.... there will be new complaints and all of the a21 complaints will be forgotten. or at least won t be the main focus.

what they are not completely seeing is... maybe the airways are safer and not as costly.... for now.

 

[Trankitas]

Will tracers (to see where are bullets coming from) be added at some point in the game? With the addition of bandits in A22 I think they would be necessary

 

[RipClaw]

I think your interest in numbers won't help you enjoy the game, in my opinion. Why would any player want to know every single numeric and detail about the game before playing it, instead of having fun discovering everything by himself in the actual game while playing?

This would require to be able to play the game. Currently, this is reserved for only a few. Therefore, the only way to get the information is to ask.

Analyzing games is part of the fun for me.

I mean, you're free to ask any number of details if you so like, but my suggestion is to try it yourself when A21 is out, so that you can experience at least a bit of the thrill that you had when you first started playing 7D2D and you knew nothing.  

Actually, knowing nothing was extremely frustrating. It was building that brought me to the game. Not killing zombies or looting.

I do it anyway because it's part of the game but actually I enjoy working on bases the most and then being able to test them on horde night.