PC Original Promises and Plans and the Current State of the Game

[Roland]

While i agree about path finding that...  their artistic vision is so  inconsisten. So screamer should using something like old model not have teeth like shark or spider zombie should be just normal zombie not human spider hybride like KF

Those models could all be mutations and experiments performed on zombies that went wrong. The behemoth is a two-story tall humanoid that looked like an alien and nothing like a zombie or even a mutated zombie. Maybe if they decided that the zombie virus was aliens and the behemoth was one of those alien bosses it would have fit but saying that the behemoth was on the same level as a zombie having sharkish teeth or another zombie having mandibles is really pushing it. 

I agree that there are basic zombies and some mutated zombies that were obviously altered artificially in a lab rather than through random mutations of the virus in nature. But the behemoth was on another level. At least Gracie who is giant still looks like a boar and is just big.

I wasn't even bothered or triggered by the behemoth but even I with my much higher threshold of genre angst than you was able to recognize that it had absolutely nothing in common with anything else in the game while the other mutants still do have some commonalities.

 

[Matt115]

Those models could all be mutations and experiments performed on zombies that went wrong. The behemoth is a two-story tall humanoid that looked like an alien and nothing like a zombie or even a mutated zombie. Maybe if they decided that the zombie virus was aliens and the behemoth was one of those alien bosses it would have fit but saying that the behemoth was on the same level as a zombie having sharkish teeth or another zombie having mandibles is really pushing it. 

I agree that there are basic zombies and some mutated zombies that were obviously altered artificially in a lab rather than through random mutations of the virus in nature. But the behemoth was on another level. At least Gracie who is giant still looks like a boar and is just big.

I wasn't even bothered or triggered by the behemoth but even I with my much higher threshold of genre angst than you was able to recognize that it had absolutely nothing in common with anything else in the game while the other mutants still do have some commonalities.

This one looks almost like:



This is Ogroman ( i know name is a little bit silly but  it have sense)

The Ogroman was a series of B.O.W derivated from the C-Virus. The series name stems from ogroman, a Serbian word synonymous with "enormous" and "gigantic".

so: This mutant have a lot of military props.

I would understand why doctors created Behemot. Perfect biological weapon of city fights - much better that tanks. But screamer? Honestly... it's looks like lab mutant. But such type of zombie would be pretty useless. Spider zombie - maybe as side effect of super soldier project. But now there is problem with feral wight- it's powerful but looks weaker that biker - older model as mutant had much more sense or if his pants was miltary but this model looks just random zombie who is just op without reasons. Infected Police officer and mutaded zombie looks like radiactivity victims totaly fine no problem. While crawler zombie looks comedic  here. So we have lab mutant, radioactivity , burned and halved. But normal zombie would die if you shot off his legs. Crawler zombie would suit to this theme if zombie were "head shot only" like in the walking dead.

I understand that 7dtd is TFP's first game and they focused on gameplay but they have to just create one consistent vision for sequel/spin off because it's too late for such changes. Fortunatly it's still much better that "night of the dead" ( this game looks bad ) but still - there is a lot to do. I hope that they will hire someone who have knowledge about world-bulding like Chet Faliszek

 

[Old Crow]

Possibly. But was the behemoth more important than the time to fix the issues? What new gameplay would it have brought that wasn't possible with a zombie with a smaller frame?

We'll never know - TFP are slow to fix issues and instead spend time making constant changes or redoing existing systems. Wasn't the stated goal last year to go gold in 2022? I'm sorry, but they're not even close. I'll be surprised if the game goes gold by 2025 at this rate.

 

[meganoth]

We'll never know - TFP are slow to fix issues and instead spend time making constant changes or redoing existing systems. Wasn't the stated goal last year to go gold in 2022? I'm sorry, but they're not even close. I'll be surprised if the game goes gold by 2025 at this rate.

Stated goal by whom? I never heard TFP state any form of date or year for the release of their game. They don't even say when alphas get out and they haven't even fixed the number of alphas they will do before release.

Ah, and about the complaint about them making constant changes and redoing existing systems, I disagree. Some of the changes are replacing prototype subsystems that were put into the game because an EA game needs to work and be fun from the start. Many further changes they do seem logical to me as they change subsystems that were not working well. Sometimes the rework didn't work either so it needed a second rework. It is called experimenting and improving and is done everywhere, only you can't see it with most games.

If you want you can name a redone feature and I can probably tell you the reasons why it was redesigned. 

Most players have unrealistic expectations about game development. They assume that all games can be planned on a white board. And they can very well if their innovation level is nearly 0 or the developer don't want to deliver high quality. If not it is very much random whether the parts someone wants to include form a well-rounded package.

Many players also assume that any feature can be done in a week. If they see a feature done fast in some other game (or a mod) they assume it can be done fast in any other game. They also assume that every developer is the same, if one doesn't experiment the other doesn't need to either. They assume that simply hiring 50 developers to a team of 50 doubles development speed, and that immediately.

If the game goes gold in 2025 that means 3 more alphas where I get a new game, not brand new but with enough changes that I can try out new things. For me each alpha is a welcome present.

 

[Old Crow]

Stated goal by whom? I never heard TFP state any form of date or year for the release of their game. They don't even say when alphas get out and they haven't even fixed the number of alphas they will do before release.

Ah, and about the complaint about them making constant changes and redoing existing systems, I disagree. Some of the changes are replacing prototype subsystems that were put into the game because an EA game needs to work and be fun from the start. Many further changes they do seem logical to me as they change subsystems that were not working well. Sometimes the rework didn't work either so it needed a second rework. It is called experimenting and improving and is done everywhere, only you can't see it with most games.

If you want you can name a redone feature and I can probably tell you the reasons why it was redesigned. 

Most players have unrealistic expectations about game development. They assume that all games can be planned on a white board. And they can very well if their innovation level is nearly 0 or the developer don't want to deliver high quality. If not it is very much random whether the parts someone wants to include form a well-rounded package.

Many players also assume that any feature can be done in a week. If they see a feature done fast in some other game (or a mod) they assume it can be done fast in any other game. They also assume that every developer is the same, if one doesn't experiment the other doesn't need to either. They assume that simply hiring 50 developers to a team of 50 doubles development speed, and that immediately.

If the game goes gold in 2025 that means 3 more alphas where I get a new game, not brand new but with enough changes that I can try out new things. For me each alpha is a welcome present.

Stated BY THE FUN PIMPS. It was in last year's streams from them prior to A20 coming out. Here's a clip, it's shown multiple times in this video by Saven's World.:

 

[meganoth]

48 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

Stated BY THE FUN PIMPS. It was in last year's streams from them prior to A20 coming out. Here's a clip, it's shown multiple times in this video by Saven's World.:

Ok, I will not waste 15 minutes of my life to search for something in a video. So I'll accept that probably Madmole mentioned something. And I think I remember now some time ago here in the forum someone said Madmole mentioned a time frame and we made jokes here about it being a big mistake. Anyone remember? It could be about this.

 

[Roland]

We'll never know - TFP are slow to fix issues and instead spend time making constant changes or redoing existing systems. Wasn't the stated goal last year to go gold in 2022? I'm sorry, but they're not even close. I'll be surprised if the game goes gold by 2025 at this rate.

So what? As long as they are funded enough to do so there is nothing wrong with continued development. They have been saying that they'd like to go gold "next year if possible" for the last few years and not just last year for this year.  They could keep their goal and rush out the rest of what they want to add. Why would anyone want them to rush out the rest of the features just for the sake of hitting a sooner date?

 

[Old Crow]

Ok, I will not waste 15 minutes of my life to search for something in a video. So I'll accept that probably Madmole mentioned something. And I think I remember now some time ago here in the forum someone said Madmole mentioned a time frame and we made jokes here about it being a big mistake. Anyone remember? It could be about this.

Search for what? The link goes directly to a specific timestamp.

 

[Syphon583]

1 hour ago, Old Crow said:

Stated BY THE FUN PIMPS. It was in last year's streams from them prior to A20 coming out. Here's a clip, it's shown multiple times in this video by Saven's World.:

Wow. What a way for the producer of this video to take something completely out of context and use as a way to claim TFP are not following their plans. I'd like to hear that segment in its entirety to see what he was talking about. Honestly, to me it looked like he was reading a comment from the chat and not stating with certainty that they were planning to go gold in that time frame. I could be wrong, but it's clear that not only does the video creator have poor expectations of how game development works, but they repeatedly use the same short, out-of-context clip to make a poor argument.

I also love his claim that the upcoming changes are being met with "massive concern". I'd hardly call the few discussions on this forum the equivalent of massive concern. Seems to me the majority of the people on here are looking forward to testing out these changes and giving their honest feedback.

 

[meganoth]

Search for what? The link goes directly to a specific timestamp.

Ah, okay, now I've seen it.

 

[Roland]

I feel like typing something that is sure to appear on a future episode of Saven's World...

I also love his claim that the upcoming changes are being met with "massive concern".

The guy has to frame everything in absolutes in order to deliver on the shock value of his click baity titles. Its all about likes and subscribes. Saven has no inside information and is simply choosing to use the worst case scenario and doom and gloom philosophy in order to get views. Later he will either claim that he was always right (If bandits do end up getting delayed) or he will claim that the pressure he and the community brought to the concern successfully pushed them into doing the right thing (If bandits make it into A21). Either way he makes himself the hero of his own world....uh....Saven's World.

 

[Old Crow]

I feel like typing something that is sure to appear on a future episode of Saven's World...

The guy has to frame everything in absolutes in order to deliver on the shock value of his click baity titles. Its all about likes and subscribes. Saven has no inside information and is simply choosing to use the worst case scenario and doom and gloom philosophy in order to get views. Later he will either claim that he was always right (If bandits do end up getting delayed) or he will claim that the pressure he and the community brought to the concern successfully pushed them into doing the right thing (If bandits make it into A21). Either way he makes himself the hero of his own world....uh....Saven's World.

Saven uses what information is given, including your dismissive and condescending attitude towards players who disagree with the Fun Pimps.

Wow. What a way for the producer of this video to take something completely out of context and use as a way to claim TFP are not following their plans. I'd like to hear that segment in its entirety to see what he was talking about. Honestly, to me it looked like he was reading a comment from the chat and not stating with certainty that they were planning to go gold in that time frame. I could be wrong, but it's clear that not only does the video creator have poor expectations of how game development works, but they repeatedly use the same short, out-of-context clip to make a poor argument.

I also love his claim that the upcoming changes are being met with "massive concern". I'd hardly call the few discussions on this forum the equivalent of massive concern. Seems to me the majority of the people on here are looking forward to testing out these changes and giving their honest feedback.

You say that like it's only people on the forums here that are talking.

 

[Roland]

Saven uses what information is given, including your dismissive and condescending attitude towards players who disagree with the Fun Pimps.

Heheh..I’m pretty sure he picks and chooses what information fits his narrative because that is exactly what he did. He definitely didn’t use the entirety of the information I give.  He can’t since the information itself would debunk all of his speculations and also show that I’m not dismissive and condescending to people who simply disagree with the Fun Pimps. What a gross over-simplification.   I actually spend a lot of time protecting the ability of people to disagree with the Fun Pimps. 
 

But obviously Saven can only work with what he’s given…lmao. 
 

Look, if you’re a fan of the guy and love his episodes then enjoy yourself. He’s doing entertainment for views and if it feels good to do some TFP bashing and feel super worried about the direction of the game together in his chat then I’m glad you have a place to do that. We don’t allow TFP bashing here, that’s true. TFP disagreeing is okay but not bashing and some people have a tough time figuring out the difference.
 

They are probably the type of “friends” others should try and avoid…

Parce THAT @Saven…
 

 

[Ramethzer0]

Saven uses what information is given, including your dismissive and condescending attitude towards players who disagree with the Fun Pimps.

Everyone uses what information they are given.  Some people are not given all the information, and are generally taken as misconstrued when their opinions are up against people who have all the inside information.   That doesn't make them condescending.  That means they are trying to get through to you, and you're not listening.  Let that stew under your helmet for a wee bit.   Taking a single sound bit, removing the context, and projecting your own hot take on that is literally the textbook definition of lazy research.

 

[Laz Man]

Heheh..I’m pretty sure he picks and chooses what information fits his narrative because that is exactly what he did. He definitely didn’t use the entirety of the information I give.  He can’t since the information itself would debunk all of his speculations and also show that I’m not dismissive and condescending to people who simply disagree with the Fun Pimps. What a gross over-simplification.   I actually spend a lot of time protecting the ability of people to disagree with the Fun Pimps. 
 

But obviously Saven can only work with what he’s given…lmao. 
 

Look, if you’re a fan of the guy and love his episodes then enjoy yourself. He’s doing entertainment for views and if it feels good to do some TFP bashing and feel super worried about the direction of the game together in his chat then I’m glad you have a place to do that. We don’t allow TFP bashing here, that’s true. TFP disagreeing is okay but not bashing and some people have a tough time figuring out the difference.
 

They are probably the type of “friends” others should try and avoid…

Parce THAT @Saven…
 

I wouldn't even bother Roland.  I use to watch his channel when he did a fun POI tournament collaboration with other content creators, but stopped when he started posting tabloid style misleading videos.

Looking at his channel history, those type of videos is what nets him the most views.  Its not a surprise to see him create more of the same.

 

[Old Crow]

Everyone uses what information they are given.  Some people are not given all the information, and are generally taken as misconstrued when their opinions are up against people who have all the inside information.   That doesn't make them condescending.  That means they are trying to get through to you, and you're not listening.  Let that stew under your helmet for a wee bit.   Taking a single sound bit, removing the context, and projecting your own hot take on that is literally the textbook definition of lazy research.

Dude, there are literally posts on this site of Roland being unprofessional and condescending. Defend the guy if you want to. Saven researches what goes into his videos.

 

[Roland]

Dude, there are literally posts on this site of Roland being unprofessional and condescending. Defend the guy if you want to. Saven researches filters what goes into his videos.

Fixed that for you.

I did just go back and read all that original conversation and that guy I responded to did not come here desiring information about his concerns. He came to rant that TFP doesn't poll the community before making any decisions and that he should get to help with the direction the game takes since he paid money to play it. I did answer him point for point without any snark or condescension and gave him true answers for all of disagreements and he completely ignored my answer but went on for pages drawing people into his arguments that were never going to come to anything.

If @Saven really wanted to get to the truth and share actual information he could have highlighted those answers. But he didn't because he is an entertainer and not a legitimate source of actual news regarding 7 Days to Die.

Saven made the same mistake the guy, himself, did in misreading what I wrote. Here is what he said in response to my advice that he should find new people to play with that won't yell at him.
 

I even have a super-moderator implying I don't have friends when I complain about balancing for multiplayer servers.

I said you should find new people to play with that are less abusive. I never implied or stated that you have no friends. You were the one complaining that your friends yell at you when you open a container. I pointed out that they are not being friendly and that not all groups treat each other like that. Don’t try to spin that into me dissing you as a friendless person because you dared to criticize the lack of community polls for development. 
 

To be clear, I think you probably have lots of friends and probably a nice family. But your own description of the people you play the game with is something I would never put up with. I would take the passion you are using to criticize TFP and stand up for yourself in your gamer group or go find a new group who won’t yell at you. 
 

My point was the game doesn’t make people act that way. They’re just jerks. You deserve better. Anyone does. 

If you go back and read exactly what I wrote to him originally you will see that he is wrong about me implying he has no friends. That isn't even close to what I said in even the most loosely comprehensible interpretation. Yet, for his show, @Saven did the same level of "research". Why didn't my full explanation about my own remark make it into his show? I'll tell you why. It would have wrecked the segment.

This is about all the time I care to spend on this. You don't have to like the way I post but I'm not going to change. I think my style is in keeping with a video game website about killing zombies. If you want hotel front desk customer service professionalism then go stay at a hotel for a night and get your fill or visit a forum on more serious subjects where I'm sure nobody jokes around ever. If someone comes with legitimate concerns and asks questions then I answer them courteously and with a desire to help them understand. If someone comes just to rant and bash the developers and the fans of the game then their claims and accusations are going to be challenged.

 

[Matt115]

Most players have unrealistic expectations about game development. They assume that all games can be planned on a white board. And they can very well if their innovation level is nearly 0 or the developer don't want to deliver high quality. If not it is very much random whether the parts someone wants to include form a well-rounded package.

High quality =/- innovation.  Quick example - neighbours from hell 1 and 2. In short - this is a game about making pranks to bad neighbour. Devs made some changes in 2 so many players was frustrated about. Sometimes just "past and copy just change colour" is the best option. Warhammer total war was something great, warhammer 2 total war 2 was just this same just more factions more units etc. If something works accetable - don't fix it. Cod have often new changes but... this is not innovative but frustating.  i know a lot of game that were "innovative" and became worst that was before. So something it's just the best option to just add more stuff and not to redesign something few times.

Ok, I will not waste 15 minutes of my life to search for something in a video. So I'll accept that probably Madmole mentioned something. And I think I remember now some time ago here in the forum someone said Madmole mentioned a time frame and we made jokes here about it being a big mistake. Anyone remember? It could be about this.

I feel like typing something that is sure to appear on a future episode of Saven's World...

The guy has to frame everything in absolutes in order to deliver on the shock value of his click baity titles. Its all about likes and subscribes. Saven has no inside information and is simply choosing to use the worst case scenario and doom and gloom philosophy in order to get views. Later he will either claim that he was always right (If bandits do end up getting delayed) or he will claim that the pressure he and the community brought to the concern successfully pushed them into doing the right thing (If bandits make it into A21). Either way he makes himself the hero of his own world....uh....Saven's World.

Heheh..I’m pretty sure he picks and chooses what information fits his narrative because that is exactly what he did. He definitely didn’t use the entirety of the information I give.  He can’t since the information itself would debunk all of his speculations and also show that I’m not dismissive and condescending to people who simply disagree with the Fun Pimps. What a gross over-simplification.   I actually spend a lot of time protecting the ability of people to disagree with the Fun Pimps. 
 

But obviously Saven can only work with what he’s given…lmao. 
 

Look, if you’re a fan of the guy and love his episodes then enjoy yourself. He’s doing entertainment for views and if it feels good to do some TFP bashing and feel super worried about the direction of the game together in his chat then I’m glad you have a place to do that. We don’t allow TFP bashing here, that’s true. TFP disagreeing is okay but not bashing and some people have a tough time figuring out the difference.
 

They are probably the type of “friends” others should try and avoid…

Parce THAT @Saven…
 

I wouldn't even bother Roland.  I use to watch his channel when he did a fun POI tournament collaboration with other content creators, but stopped when he started posting tabloid style misleading videos.

Looking at his channel history, those type of videos is what nets him the most views.  Its not a surprise to see him create more of the same.

Honestly : i compire  Saven and Call of duty creators and.... There is big diffrence.  Cod creators well... are more vulgar and emotinal  that's fact but in this same time...  use much more sources, more context and facts. while  Saven -  take a lot of things out of context. And still i don't undestand how he compire 7dtd and Medieval dynasty. So it would be much much better even with cod outbreak mode 

 

[meganoth]

High quality =/- innovation. 

Read my post again. I never said these two concepts are connected. Notice the word "or" between them.

 

[Matt115]

Read my post again. I never said these two concepts are connected. Notice the word "or" between them.

Sorry my mistake i read and instead or