We need complete code changes - not just cliff notes

[P3rf3ctVZer0]

Pimps can you please keep a code change git?! Whatever you changed between 20.3 and 20.4 broke something serious but you don't reveal all changes so we the players and devs can never actually properly adjust for issues you create. Trust me - you break your game alot. I will only ask this once since you will probably think I am trying to cause waves. If you did keep a public changelog but kept your code obfuscated we could at least see when you make harmony changes etc. Saying fixed x but not saying what code you changed to fix x is useless in alpha or even beta builds. You should tell people we fixed x by changing code x I really love this game but I am getting physically broken down trying to chase the bugs generated by code changes.

 

[Matt115]

Pimps can you please keep a code change git?! Whatever you changed between 20.3 and 20.4 broke something serious but you don't reveal all changes so we the players and devs can never actually properly adjust for issues you create. Trust me - you break your game alot. I will only ask this once since you will probably think I am trying to cause waves. If you did keep a public changelog but kept your code obfuscated we could at least see when you make harmony changes etc. Saying fixed x but not saying what code you changed to fix x is useless in alpha or even beta builds. You should tell people we fixed x by changing code x I really love this game but I am getting physically broken down trying to chase the bugs generated by code changes.

Do you know that most studios don't do this ? just writing " fixing bug with tree"? why? because most players don't care about that and it take time.

For example AOE3 definitive edition

Hotfix 13.5088

• Fixed a rare out of sync issue that could occur when sending the new Peninsular Guerrillas card shipment as the Spanish.
  

DL2

New ragdoll’s behaviors.

• Opponents enter ragdolls more often.
  
• Ragdoll works more naturally.
  
• Ragdoll behaves differently depending on the used weapon type.
  
• Appropriate forces are applied when falling from a height and when hitting different parts of the body while maintaining the force given from the direction of the blow.
  
• When a ragdoll collides with its surroundings - the appropriate sound and FXs are played depending on the surface the body falls on.
  
• Improved spikes detection. The enemy is now always stamped on the spikes after a hit. Additionally spikes audio feedback is now improved and new FXs were added (displayed based on the body's physical momentum).
  

Mount and blade bannerlord 

Fixes

• Fixed a bug that caused the party leader to be donated to the garrison.
  
• Fixed a bug that allowed for the recruitment of prisoners even with insufficient conformity.
  
• Fixed a bug that caused the remaining settlements of an eliminated clan to be given to an empty neutral clan if no other enemy/neutral clans remained in the campaign. Settlements are now passed to the main hero's clan.
  
• Fixed a bug that caused clan members to get lost if they were assigned to solve an issue that timed out. The lost members will come back after loading the save.
  
• Fixed a bug that made the “Disband Army” option available in the Army Management panel while in a siege or an encounter.
  
• Minor text fixes related to Betting Fraud quest and tournaments.
  

 

[P3rf3ctVZer0]

Most studios have a semi stable product. This game has a nasty history of just not quite being stable which is not necessarily a fault but it is alpha and as such alpha means constant change. If you have constant change but don't inform devs etc of these changes in detail they cannot properly adjust for the change. Its why Minecraft mods in most cases are amazing because devs tell you through pushes and pulls exactly what code has been changed. Skilled beta testers such as me can really - really discover core issues and sometimes even come up with solid fixes and provide needed feedback to devs. You can look down on my claim all you want. The truth is this game although pretty transparent needs even greater code transparency A team of 4 people run Tmodloader for Terraria and not once did the conceal any code changes. As such even through hard alpha the product remained entirely usable. The fact is the broke something core and no one knows what it is and people with far more talent for code cannot fix it because it is not actually reveled what on a code level was modified and no one wants to scrub months of code to find a needle in a haystack. Ironically if the devs did open up about code pushes more skilled coders could even help point out small flaws or overlooked issues. Honestly overall with that level of feedback the game may actually get done faster too. I can't imagine the TFP want to be known for a single project forever. Maybe they do; who knows.

ps I am passing out so goodnight.

 

[Matt115]

Em cod, bf , b4b , cyberpunk were a mess. 

So what that minecraft and terraria works that's way? half life and tf2 is a coding mess this same  l4d2 but people making mods somehow. Even they are making mods to attila. Well if i good understand what devs say - 2-3 more years of alpha , 1 year of beta and that's it. They will fix  some bugs for sure. Probably they will implement a steam workshop too so code will be change a little bit. Well this is mess but how you say constant change so there is no point now to do  anything with that -  simple rule - if something work don't fix it. They are planning to make another game so they so they want to finish this game as fast as it can be possible - just add bandits, water overhaul maybe armor system , balance and.. that's everything

 

[P3rf3ctVZer0]

It is clear to me that you won't listen. Good day.

 

[Matt115]

It is clear to me that you won't listen. Good day.

nope. Easy example - if you cut tree in workshop, do you clean shavings during or after cutting? Now bugs aren't big problem because it is alpha = bugs in alpha are totaly normal. Time to fix bugs will be when they change alpha into  beta

 

[ZamiZ]

I think a git link that you could look at as an option would be nice. So if someone just wants the cliff notes, or those with little to no interest in the code changes, can read that and get what they have always gotten. Those that like to look at the actual code changes can go there and get more detail for their own understanding and provide better feedback on bugs and possible bug fixes.

 

[Matt115]

I think a git link that you could look at as an option would be nice. So if someone just wants the cliff notes, or those with little to no interest in the code changes, can read that and get what they have always gotten. Those that like to look at the actual code changes can go there and get more detail for their own understanding and provide better feedback on bugs and possible bug fixes.

I know about that - but this is not time for fixing bugs +  leftovers can be problematic as "source of leaks"

 

[ZamiZ]

I have no idea what you just meant. Me agreeing that they add something in the future to their changelog posts for both sides of their audience, those that want the generic details and those that want the nitty gritty code details like the modders, has nothing to do with the current bugs and issues going on. It will help those that want to be better testers and are willing to test the experimental branches to find these bugs before they go live though. The same generic cliff note changelogs are posted for experimental releases not just the live releases which doesn't help testers for finding some of the "smallest" bugs in the least bit. Which you can consider the latest break with the drones and such "small" because what tester is going to know exactly what to test if they can't see what code changed? Maybe if the code changes had been released, the testers would have caught the mess we have now while it was still in experimental.

 

[Matt115]

I have no idea what you just meant. Me agreeing that they add something in the future to their changelog posts for both sides of their audience, those that want the generic details and those that want the nitty gritty code details like the modders, has nothing to do with the current bugs and issues going on. It will help those that want to be better testers and are willing to test the experimental branches to find these bugs before they go live though. The same generic cliff note changelogs are posted for experimental releases not just the live releases which doesn't help testers for finding some of the "smallest" bugs in the least bit. Which you can consider the latest break with the drones and such "small" because what tester is going to know exactly what to test if they can't see what code changed? Maybe if the code changes had been released, the testers would have caught the mess we have now while it was still in experimental.

If you mean after alpha stage i can agree.

 

[ZamiZ]

You obviously don't understand how testing works in Alpha stage when you have willing player testers. Good day.

 

[Matt115]

You obviously don't understand how testing works in Alpha stage when you have willing player testers. Good day.

<sigh>  this don't matter if there are "willing players testers" or not - first you add content then fixing bugs. so fixing small bugs  is pointelss now because in next alpha it will be more bugs. So they will fixing things in beta. Like most studios doing

 

[P3rf3ctVZer0]

<sigh>  this don't matter if there are "willing players testers" or not - first you add content then fixing bugs. so fixing small bugs  is pointelss now because in next alpha it will be more bugs. So they will fixing things in beta. Like most studios doing

Why do you flame everyone? Your a very toxic person. If you flame one more comment I will report you. It's okay to have a differing opinion.

Also let me be very clear - I am not saying they should go back and reveal all code or even de-obfuscate code I am saying they should start now. a20.4 is an unmitigated disaster. Unfortunately because we don't know what the changed between a20.3 code and a20.4 code we cannot help the pimps. Which is the whole point of the alpha.

They should not focus on cross platform when the steam edition is currently in the state its in.

Definition of Alpha

During an open alpha, any user can go to a website - such as Github - and download the source code to try the newly released product. Another option is to create an “invite only” alpha, in which only a limited number of select users are allowed to access and test the product. Both approaches have their pros and cons.

 

[Laz Man]

I can understand how this would be helpful for those who are deeply modifying the game.

However, I think it would do more harm then good so I think it is unlikely to happen.

As a side note, what issue are you experiencing with 20.4?

 

[bdubyah]

During an open alpha, any user can go to a website - such as Github - and download the source code to try the newly released product. Another option is to create an “invite only” alpha, in which only a limited number of select users are allowed to access and test the product. Both approaches have their pros and cons.

What game company gives out their source code?

And as Laz asked, what issues are you having? I've seen a few with the paths and whatnot, but most of what I've seen people dealing with, the devs have given answers to. The drone radial issue or whatever it was I think it still there, but they are aware of it.

 

[ZamiZ]

Not all changes are put into the cliff notes version of the changelog. Usually they are not deemed worthy enough, ie big enough, to put into the cliff notes or they are rolled up into one big one. If we had more specific change notes, we can direct our testing to areas that were directly changed between versions to catch bugs and report them so hopefully TFP can get them fixed before they go live.

The state of a game in Early-Access or Alpha should not change the fact that testers need to know what they are testing for in order to be of any real use. I'm sure those on QA get this. Give us a stripped down version for Experimental release. It doesn't have to be full open source code to be useful. Sometimes just knowing the class and area that changed is enough. Many of us will go digging through the code anyways if we find an issue so we can give detailed feedback, but at least we'd start with a direction to go looking.

Once it is on the stable branch for the general play public sure only give the cliff notes. The experimental definitely should have much more detail, that is what it is there for for open alpha testing. Stable is for play testing.

Plus, I said it should be AN OPTION. If you don't want to read it, then don't. For those that want to read it, then they can. That's all I'm asking for future experimental releases.

 

[Maharin]

Pimps can you please keep a code change git?! Whatever you changed between 20.3 and 20.4 broke something serious but you don't reveal all changes so we the players and devs can never actually properly adjust for issues you create. Trust me - you break your game alot. I will only ask this once since you will probably think I am trying to cause waves. If you did keep a public changelog but kept your code obfuscated we could at least see when you make harmony changes etc. Saying fixed x but not saying what code you changed to fix x is useless in alpha or even beta builds. You should tell people we fixed x by changing code x I really love this game but I am getting physically broken down trying to chase the bugs generated by code changes.

I think you're living in a dream world.  This is not an open source product so they will NOT be showing you the source code, in this decade at least.  This game is in alpha, changes are made constantly, and yes, that will mean breaking things especially on experimental builds.  There is no way in hell they will take the time needed to show you or anyone else outside the company the level of detail you are asking for.  Not going to happen.

As for your last sentence, just stop doing what you're doing and you can heal.  Wait for beta or even release to pick it back up again.  Your expectations are so far out of whack it is no wonder you are having issues.