PC 20.4 new mod folder location

[NekoPawtato]

Really? Where? Maybe there is a back channel? Definitely didn't see it on the regular updates and announcements or before it happened.
Kindly direct me to it if you can and then review whether its something that would be seen by most people or... just a back channel.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but according to the A20.4 release notes: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/28529-alpha-204-stable/

Mods are now loaded from <UserDataFolder>/Mods (i.e. the folder that also stores saves, e.g. on Windows %APPDATA%/7DaysToDie/Mods) in addition to <game folder>/Mods. In a future build this will change to only load from that new location so no data is written/changed in the program folder at any time

I interpreted that as meaning both old and new locations currently work and in the future it will transition to only one place.

 

[Jost Amman]

I interpreted that as meaning both old and new locations currently work and in the future it will transition to only one place.

I guess somebody must help Brugas with his "transition" process now...  :heh:

 

[bdubyah]

Really? Where? Maybe there is a back channel? Definitely didn't see it on the regular updates and announcements or before it happened.
Kindly direct me to it if you can and then review whether its something that would be seen by most people or... just a back channel.

Sorry bud, but I don't have to save such things... it's called wit and can be done on the fly, lol.
As far as what's been done for the modding community... I hardly see it otherwise. Been seeing this kind of thing for decades and to see it still being done, especially to this group, definitely rubs me the wrong way.  I know it's your job to defend, and I can respect that, but I don't see an excuse for this. If you have a good one, I would like to hear it.

Not sure why you think Roland owes you anything.

20.4 has been in EXP for a couple weeks. First release mentioned it. This thread is proof of that. And again, this change isn't required right now. So no idea why you're so upset about it. If the devs weren't aware of the mod swapping issue this seems to create(which I'd think they were), they are now. So by the time the Mods folder is deprecated, there will very likely be a good alternative in place. While some things TFP do seem strange to us sometimes, they are almost always looking out for modders and their users. So I'll definitely hold off jumping the gun and blasting them till I see what comes next for this. Hell, it will likely be at least a21 before the Mods folder goes away. You people need to calm down. Lol.

 

[Survager]

One way or another, many mods are large, and not every player has enough space on the "C" drive to install large mods. What solution does Roland think could fix this in the future when all modifications need to be stored on the "C" drive?

 

[SylenThunder]

One way or another, many mods are large, and not every player has enough space on the "C" drive to install large mods. What solution does Roland think could fix this in the future when all modifications need to be stored on the "C" drive?

A solution has already been posted in this very thread.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

One way or another, many mods are large, and not every player has enough space on the "C" drive to install large mods. What solution does Roland think could fix this in the future when all modifications need to be stored on the "C" drive?

Guess it´s pretty easy to get out of touch with what the playerbase has as hardware when your job requires you to have a PC way above average. That´s not an excuse, a good dev shuold be aware if a change will effect people in a negative way if they have an average PC.

But hey, beeing in MS store is more importnant than that from a business standpoint. I heavily doubt that they are going to sell a lot more because of that, the game has been in EA very long and i doubt that there will be huge sales after releasing. No matter if they are in the MS store or not. People who like games like this already have bought it imo.

Just gonna be interesting how many people will not buy early access anymore with the next title if they know that they could be royally screwed over after years of playing.

@SylenThunder Wich one? Doing shortcuts? That´s not a solution. That´s a workaround. A @%$#ty one that renders the advantages of steam workshop useless for people with small C drives (wich many people have nowadays). You guys missed the part, where a lot of people confirmed that even finding appdata is a struggle for many people.

 

[Sellsents]

While some things TFP do seem strange to us sometimes, they are almost always looking out for modders and their users. So I'll definitely hold off jumping the gun and blasting them till I see what comes next for this. Hell, it will likely be at least a21 before the Mods folder goes away. You people need to calm down. Lol.

No, we do not need to calm down. We need to bring this to their attention now so they hopefully rethink their decision before the whole thing goes further and say at the end: hey, if you weren´t pleased with our decision back then why didn´t you spoke up? Now its too late to change things back."

I do not say they do not care about their modders or anything like that, because I personally have not enough indept knowledge about how the whole moding stuff works in detail. I can change little things for myself, like editing some xml files but thats it. And I am fine with it. But I appreciate every modders work, the time that is spend to create them and the creativity and knowlegde behind every single one of them. I appreciate every player who is playing this game because without them, this game would be dead in a minute. And therefore I say: do not make it harder on people. No matter if you are a modder or if you are just a regular user. Because there are enough people out there already who have problems creating mods or installing them properly. Why make life for those people harder without having a good explainable reason? And there even might be a good reason behind all of it, I don´t know. But so far its hasn´t communicated well to us why this change is neccessary.

I go by the motto do not fix what is not broken. I do not want to spent my time fiddeling around with mods to make them work somehow and then try to explain it to my friends for 2h so we can play for one. Its not gonna work that way.

 

[KhaineGB]

I still maintain that the DOCUMENTS folder is a better location for logs/saves/mods

So like C:\Users\<username>\Documents (I think that's the default on windows).

Why? Easier to access for the end user. WAY easier.

Platform agnostic. It works on Windows, Linux and MacOS with System.Environment.GetFolderPath(System.Environment.SpecialFolder.MyDocuments).

Windows users can EASILY change the location of their documents folder. I have mine on my D drive, for example. I assume Linux and MacOS can do the same but I'm not experienced enough with those OS'es to comment.

I understand this change is coming because of the MS Store version that doesn't allow access to the game folder, but if we HAD TO only have 1 mods folder? That location would be my suggestion for the reasons outlined.

Personally I'd leave both locations in. That way you maintain windows store compatibility for those users, and the old location for Steam/Epic users that want multiple game versions and multiple mods easily.

 

[Survager]

A solution has already been posted in this very thread.

Is this solution suggested by the developers? I didn't find anything similar, maybe I didn't read it carefully.

 

[ZamiZ]

A solution is NOT a solution if it isn't something a person with little computer smarts can do. Workarounds such as symlinks are clunky at best, do not work at worst. You cannot assume that it won't break something else on that person's computer. Unless you are getting paid to work on their computer as a repair to verify everything works. 

For a solution, you have to think of the users that are:

1. Not tech savvy.
     Can do point and click, find their documents and browser, find the game, but do nothing else. They take their computer to a computer store because it is running slow because their drive is full and they never cleared their cache and downloads for years because they didn't know how or that they had to type of people.

2. Want to play different mods.
     Sometimes they want to play one set of mods in the morning with one group of friends then a different set of mods in the evening with a different group of friends.

The best solution will be TFP will have to have a launcher that will do all this with only minimal work from the user. I hate to reference Minecraft again, but at least it's mods are packed in zip files. So the mods are easily recognizable from one another for the user regardless of how many folders there are inside of it. In it's current state, TFP have a LOOOONG way to go to get a mod loader that will be usable for the average user going down this route. THAT is my key point. Right now what we have is clunky, but we can get the job done. Forcing it into %appdata% without a ton of work on their end to make a mod loader, the ability to have game profiles to play different mod packs, mod version verification between server and client in instances it is needed, and everything else that goes with it before they force us into this WILL force many of us that play with multiple mods to leave the game.

 

[NoMan]

I don’t know enough to agree or disagree with what they have chosen to do but just from the way they announced it and are giving everyone a grace period to acclimate to it makes your statement sound pretty ignorant.

Without knowledge of the big picture, how well can one be expected to acclimate?

Just share a more complete overview of how the system will work going forward.

How do the devs anticipate that users will run multiple modded versions?

Is the workaround posted by SylenThunder intended to be a permanent solution? It does not seem very user-friendly at first glance. 

It seems that you all should have expected this type of reaction when the change was announced with such a limited explanation.

If Roland doesn't know enough to agree or disagree, how do you expect the rest of us to wrap our heads around it?

This controversy can be blamed on low information. We have been told just enough to give concern, but not enough to form a well-reasoned complaint. Bad PR, IMO.

My prediction is that once Steam Workshop is introduced, it will become the only way to mod without the extra steps explained in the "workaround" and, unless using that method, we will be limited to one modded version. This is the kind of speculation you will get when you leave folks wondering...

 

[Jost Amman]

This controversy can be blamed on low information. We have been told just enough to give concern, but not enough to form a well-reasoned complaint.

Why does this sound so familiar? ...  :confused2:

 

[KhaineGB]

1. Not tech savvy.
     Can do point and click, find their documents and browser, find the game, but do nothing else. They take their computer to a computer store because it is running slow because their drive is full and they never cleared their cache and downloads for years because they didn't know how or that they had to type of people.

Thanks for reminding me I need to clear out my cache and downloads.

 

[bdubyah]

No, we do not need to calm down. We need to bring this to their attention now so they hopefully rethink their decision before the whole thing goes further and say at the end: hey, if you weren´t pleased with our decision back then why didn´t you spoke up? Now its too late to change things back."

I do not say they do not care about their modders or anything like that, because I personally have not enough indept knowledge about how the whole moding stuff works in detail. I can change little things for myself, like editing some xml files but thats it. And I am fine with it. But I appreciate every modders work, the time that is spend to create them and the creativity and knowlegde behind every single one of them. I appreciate every player who is playing this game because without them, this game would be dead in a minute. And therefore I say: do not make it harder on people. No matter if you are a modder or if you are just a regular user. Because there are enough people out there already who have problems creating mods or installing them properly. Why make life for those people harder without having a good explainable reason? And there even might be a good reason behind all of it, I don´t know. But so far its hasn´t communicated well to us why this change is neccessary.

I go by the motto do not fix what is not broken. I do not want to spent my time fiddeling around with mods to make them work somehow and then try to explain it to my friends for 2h so we can play for one. Its not gonna work that way.

Yeah, because throwing insults and generally acting like a child is always a good way to make a point. Right...

And all the complaints about making it more complicated being a problem, etc is assuming nothing else will be done with it. There's a number of ways they could be going with this. Fact is, we don't know, so while voicing concerns is fine and good, acting like mindless idiots is not.

 

[Roland]

Without knowledge of the big picture, how well can one be expected to acclimate?

You can acclimate to the new situation without understanding the big picture. Companies rarely spell out the big picture publicly until they are ready to roll everything out. Them telling us about a future change without giving us a "good reason" or "the whole plan" is exactly the way things are usually done. My point was that they have graciously given us time to get used to the change with an option to continue to use the old method until some future date when the new method will be the only option. Witty guy was complaining that TFP completely screwed everyone over with a surprise change. That didn't happen. They have given us a headsup. They have not revealed all the why's at this time, true, but a modder now has the option to start figuring out how to handle the change before it happens.

Just share a more complete overview of how the system will work going forward.

How do the devs anticipate that users will run multiple modded versions?

Is the workaround posted by SylenThunder intended to be a permanent solution? It does not seem very user-friendly at first glance. 

You have a right to complain about the lack of information and ask for more so no argument from me on that score. We will have to see whether TFP decides to explain the reasons behind their change.

It seems that you all should have expected this type of reaction when the change was announced with such a limited explanation.

We always expect some people will rage over any change. So, sure, the expectation was there. I was not expressing surprise-- or at least that wasn't what I meant to convey. I was expressing strong disapproval of someone falsely accusing the devs of surprising everyone with a sudden forced change that ruins modding and doing so in a vulgar and insulting manner. Period. The accusation was that the devs gave no warning and forced a horrible change on everyone. The truth was that we are being warned now about a future change and nobody is forced to adapt immediately. The full reasons haven't been explained although now a major reason has come out anyway.

If Roland doesn't know enough to agree or disagree, how do you expect the rest of us to wrap our heads around it?

Agree or disagree about the technical ramifications of the change. I've dabbled with modding but that doesn't mean I'm an expert on all of this. If I don't know enough to agree or disagree and am willing to be patient until more is known then why can't the rest of you? I like using mods and I like having multiple versions of 7 Days loaded at once so I have some worries but if a method emerges that makes it still possible then I'll follow directions to figure it out same as I did when I originally had no idea how to apply mods to this game and followed directions to figure it out. We don't know what TFP is going to do to support modding officially and how easy they will make it to apply mods in the future. People who are getting upset are assuming the worst possible outcomes and then getting mad like that is the truth.

This controversy can be blamed on low information. We have been told just enough to give concern, but not enough to form a well-reasoned complaint. Bad PR, IMO.

My prediction is that once Steam Workshop is introduced, it will become the only way to mod without the extra steps explained in the "workaround" and, unless using that method, we will be limited to one modded version. This is the kind of speculation you will get when you leave folks wondering...

Sure. Understood. We didn't spill all of our information to the public all at once and that leads to speculation. But the type of speculation that people make says more about them than it does about TFP. We know that TFP plans to officially support modding and we know that they are planning to change the location of where the mod folder is going to go. If you want to speculate doom and gloom that's on you. But it is self-inflicted pain. I haven't posted a single thing against any of the speculative wonderings on here. Some seem hopeful that things will turn out, some seem convinced the end of any meaningful modding is coming and I'm happy to let the whole spectrum of thought to be given voice.

But...posting that TFP has already forced this change as a surprise with no time to get ready and adapt and figure things out is blatantly wrong and THAT is what I entered the conversation to correct-- not to stop people from wondering what the future will hold.

 

[Sixx]

So I'm not sure if I understood that correctly.

My mods are now on Drive D Games/7D2D/Mods

and I have to look them up now

C:\Users\Idiot\AppData\Roaming\7DaysToDie

???
 

So on my Windows system disk? On which I don't really want to have something like that because it's NOT my game disc ?? So I'm now trash as my system disk? It's already annoying enough what's stored there. But I find that already hard on the limit that you have to put a mod directory there. Completely superfluous and idiotic
 

My mod directory is about 25GB in size. Should I then buy a larger Disc for this? Inflate my security backus artificially?

It's a shame that you make decisions based on the head of your users and sometimes even give cheeky and outrageous answers.
 

If so: Bye 7D2D.. there are enough other games that you can use and also experience significantly better further development..

 

[sphereii]

I am not concerned with this change. There's a few ways to solve it, Sylven already posted a good solution. I think you can even do a --userdatafolder right from the command line, rather than having a separate xml config. As for the ModLauncher, it will only require a minor change; most users won't even notice. 

It does improve things for certain modded players. The ModLauncher copies the game for each overhaul you are installing. However, the new way allows one game install with many mods running in it, saving a lot of disk space. I may even do a small open source app to stream line that, so the concern about the ModLauncher or its dev disappears completely is greatly reduced.

The ModLauncher will likely keep its one copy per mod going forward. Some people really like to keep older versions of the game. 

The ModLauncher was always just a gap solution for workshop. Nothing has changed with that stance, nor is it going away.

 

[KhaineGB]

I have ideas on how i'm gonna resolve it myself.

I just need to do some tweaks to my mod. Getting there.

 

[sphereii]

I have ideas on how i'm gonna resolve it myself.

I just need to do some tweaks to my mod. Getting there.

I know the change is a pain in the butt, but I think it does position us to be much closer to actual workshop support than we ever have been, and that should be pretty exciting to all the players and modders alike. Every alpha, we take a step forward that's a bit scary, but it is forward.

Imagine all modlets available in a central place, rather than spread out across multiple websites, forum posts, launchers, etc. It feels like we are getting close to that.

 

[KhaineGB]

I know the change is a pain in the butt, but I think it does position us to be much closer to actual workshop support than we ever have been, and that should be pretty exciting to all the players and modders alike. Every alpha, we take a step forward that's a bit scary, but it is forward.

Imagine all modlets available in a central place, rather than spread out across multiple websites, forum posts, launchers, etc. It feels like we are getting close to that.

Sphereii, plz. You damn well know they're gonna be on multiple websites and posts anyway