PC Shout-out to those responsible for the xml modding framework.

[Roland]

So.. wait. what?

Gamida: "I don't understand people complaining about the lack of features they could mod in"

Me: "Modding is actually pretty involved... a proper fix might reduce the headache later on. So, why not?"

Roland: "Some people are modding and complaining about THAT like it's a problem"

Me: "Yeah, they might be complaining because they have to fix it themselves"

Roland: "Yeah, but the game isn't complete yet"

Well...when you paraphrase the conversation like that it does seem like a disjointed response that makes me look pretty stupid...

Here is my take on it:

Me: "Glad to read some positivity regarding modding"

Gamida: "I don't understand why people complain about being able to mod features in"

TheFlu: "Modding can be very involved and for a variety of listed reasons they may not be able to do it"

Me: "Yes, but some people are modding and ranting that it is evidence of developer failure"

TheFlu: "Well it's not evidence that it's not dev failure since there are many AAA launch titles that must be fixed by mods"

Me: "Yeah, but this game isn't a launch title so it's not evidence of dev failure until it launches."

TheFlue: "So...wait. what?"

I guess we just focused on different parts of the convo. <shrug>

btw..I'm all for feedback and letting the devs know which mods are most popular and what people seem to be wanted to be added. I would love to see threads full of excited reporting about how much fun a mod is and why. I'd take that over a rant thread complaining about what must be modded into the game in order to make it remotely fun. Excitement and fun is contagious and may inspire some dev who reads it whereas accusations of laziness, ineptness, and even dishonesty in some cases isn't going to make a dent in what the devs plan to do or not to do.

 

[Roland]

Straight up "copying" a mod might be a legal nightmare; even if both sides would be happy about it.

No it wouldn't. The EULA clearly states that all derivative works are the sole property of The Fun Pimps. They might suffer some public relations problems if the modder they copied made a stink about it (most would just be thrilled) and it somehow went viral and everyone decided to jump on the anti TFP bandwagon but there would be no legal problems with it at all.

However, they wouldn't just copy a mod anyway. They have access to a lot more of the code than modders do and so their methodology for adding a feature that a modder added would be completely different. Modders tend to use existing hooks in order to jury rig their features together whereas TFP just creates new hooks to fully support and integrate a new feature into the existing code and make sure it doesn't conflict with anything else.

In short, even if TFP put an identical feature into the game that a modder had done first, the code would look nothing like what the modder did and so even if there was a judge sympathetic to the plights of poor oppressed modders and wanted to make an example of TFP as an evil money grubbing company and so threw out the EULA as faulty and unfair-- defense lawyers could easily set up the code side by side and there would be no question that there really was no copying.

 

[Guppycur]

...you could always visit the mod section of the forum if you want to read positive feedback about mods, instead of the negative rants...

Come.  Visit.  Pull up a chair and stay a while.

 

[Roland]

Visiting is easy. Leaving again is hard.

 

[theFlu]

I guess we just focused on different parts of the convo. <shrug>

Yeh, I figured, that's why I paraphrased what I was seeing; to figure out where we're talking past each other. No gaslighting intended My quip about launch titles was just for equivocating* highlighting mods and fixes as similar; the dev phase doesn't really matter for the point. If you're installing a 3rd party mod you feel is "fixing" the game, you'll quite naturally want that for everyone else as well. And the "not evidence to the contrary" might've been a bit cryptic..

* oops, "equivocate" seems to not mean what I thought it does, live and learn. I think "equate" might've worked, but whatever.

I would love to see threads full of excited reporting about how much fun a mod is and why.

Sure, likewise; the mod threads themselves would be the place I'd post something like that, and there's plenty of happy customers there. If I want something fixed in vanilla... well, people just can't contain themselves when frustrated, me included (not often, but too often)

No it wouldn't. The EULA clearly states that all derivative works are the sole property of The Fun Pimps

Umm; I'll take your word for it (for exactly this convo); but does that mean when Darkness Falls steals my data and sells it, I can GDPR the Pimps..? "Sole property" and all. And if the modder made it with lifted assets, would they be automatically responsible ..? (That's just random legal mumbo jumbo, mostly just saying, "I really am not a lawyer, and I shouldn't be talking about this" ... ).

I do agree with the rest of that; the required re-writing part is what practically protects TFP in the copyright-law side as well - you can't protect a "feature", so if the Pimps write their own version of a mod, it is entirely theirs.

 

[Blake_]

I agree that the barrier to using a mod may be too high for some users and it really has to be up to them whether they want those changes badly enough to invest the learning and time needed to make it happen.

But there are some who complain AND they admit that they currently use mods. They use them and act like using them is a sign of failure on the part of the developers. The first time I modded extra zombies into my game I had a huge grin on my face and felt a great sense of enjoyment. But some others who do the same thing seem to have a big frown on their face and feel a great sense of indignation...

It really depends. If you have something like an unnofficial patch that fixes bugs and tweaks overlooks, meshes and other "canon" mistakes, then I would definitely say that THAT specific mod is a sign of failure to support the game from the devs' side. If instead the mod tweaks,invents, reinvents or changes the experience, then it is in fact the contrary and 7dtd should be praised as is the case right now.

But be aware that 7dtd is in alpha and in active development, and the core topic of your argument shouldn't be brought forward until after a while of 1.0 being released, so we can really tell if bugs are a' plenty or not.

 

[Maharin]

Some day there will be the ultimate tool... The Mod Construction Kit... and all will be happy.

Not likely, at least the last part.