PC Is zombie loot bags affected by modified loot stage?

[theFlu]

I'm convinced we've got it right.

Yup, pretty safe bet, knowing the environment.

Btw, I think we may have lost the OP at some point; I might have to test out something for the original question as well...

EDIT: Ok, did a quick test for an near approximate of the OP-question:

I modified the Burnt Forest to have a +200 loot stage. Checked in game that the loot stage changed as expected (2 in forest, 203 in burnt)

I spawned a group of demos on the forest side of the forest/burnt border, killed them, looted their bags.

Standing on the Burnt side, bag on the forest side, the first drop gave me an M60 Q4.

=> reading the loot.xml , the first chance for an M60 seems to be loot stage 118. (I might've missed something, but I don't think so)

So, the bag never touched the burnt side, looting from there spawned an item exclusive to high loot stage.

I did spawn in a few dozen more demos on the forest side and looted them from the forest side, there were no high level loots in a dozen bags I looted, plenty of day 1 stuff though. Not exactly indisputable, but close enough for this purpose.

TL;DR: yeh, doesn't matter where a bag lies or where you can or can't move it, the only thing that matters is the highest LS you can reach it with ..

(poke @Brian9824)

 

[BFT2020]

Yup, pretty safe bet, knowing the environment.

Btw, I think we may have lost the OP at some point; I might have to test out something for the original question as well...

I think you proven out the OP's question very well, and your discussion on probability overall will help me when I go back into my loot changes to figure out how to make things drop less frequently.

 

[Boidster]

I spawned a group of demos on the forest side of the forest/burnt border, killed them, looted their bags.

Standing on the Burnt side, bag on the forest side, the first drop gave me an M60 Q4.

=> reading the loot.xml , the first chance for an M60 seems to be loot stage 118. (I might've missed something, but I don't think so)

So, the bag never touched the burnt side, looting from there spawned an item exclusive to high loot stage.

Yes, that's a very good test!

For biome modifiers, though, I was able to test that and I'm pretty confident that "where the player is standing" determines the modifier. How I tested:

1) Modify Feral Biker to have a 90% chance to drop a bag

2) Spawn a crapload of Feral Bikers (AI turned off; I'm not looking for a fight) on the desert side of a desert/wasteland border area (confirmed via F3)

3) Loot bags while standing on the desert side, until 10 Tier/Quality items are found

4) Loot bags while standing on the wasteland side also until 10 Tiered items are found

Results (note: this is loot.xml tiers, i.e. cloth & scrap are both Tier 0):

To be faaaaair, your test with the drastically increased biome modifier was simpler and didn't require like 50 spawns I bet. I had to do many iterations with the vanilla settings before I noticed the change.

when I go back into my loot changes to figure out how to make things drop less frequently.

You're not from around here, are ya?  

 

[theFlu]

To be faaaaair, your test with the drastically increased biome modifier was simpler and didn't require like 50 spawns I bet. I had to do many iterations with the vanilla settings before I noticed the change.

Yeh, your original was pretty much good enough already. But I figured a "one-sided but binary" -test might give some more strength to the claim .. and indeed, it wasn't exactly difficult. Call me lazy, again

 

[Boidster]

Not lazy. "Focused on efficient outcomes"

 

[theFlu]

Hmm.. part of the discussion was "Can we even move the bags?"

I tried a ramp, it can be done. The bags can be nudged down a ramp or even a diagonal mining shaft. Piles of bags move pretty decently.

However, it's a proper pain, I did move a dozen bags down a ramp into a shaft for about 20 blocks.

If one is min/maxing to that degree, I'd bet the process will end up frustrating such a personality, wildly.

Let's just say I ended up shooting a bag.

 

[Boidster]

Vehicles help? Could you bulldoze bags over to the wasteland border with a 4x4? Could TFP add a Bulldozer Mod into the game for exactly this purpose?  

Edit to add: for all my "there is no cheese" ideology, this idea of moving loot into a more favorable biome fits into my very narrow definition of 'cheese': using information the survivor couldn't possibly know to improve survival chances. Doesn't mean that I won't try to stand on wasteland ground when looting bags, if I have a choice! I admit to the cheesiness though.

TFP could maybe remove the cheesability by setting biome and POI flags on the bags when they drop. So it becomes "where the zombie was standing" instead of "where the player is standing" which determines lootstage modifiers.

 

[theFlu]

Vehicles help?

The 4x4 maybe; I'll give that a go down a mineshaft, if you try the gyrocopter down one

 

[Boidster]

if you try the gyrocopter down one

Unless they have modeled downdraft or the wind from the rear prop, ain't no way that'll work. And what we need is to be able to roll bags like 50 or 100m horizontally. Is the idea of a mineshaft so that you can get gravity to help? I guess for PhD-level credit you need to figure out the minimum useful slope from which we can calculate the maximum horizontal distance you could move bags with gravity assist.

OOH! - could you use a short drop to push a bag into the back of a 4x4? Because that gives me rationalization for my cheesing the RNG mechanic.

"Well see I always prefer to open loot from the safety of my 'Loot Base' which happens to be over there in the Wasteland (in the ruins of Dishong Tower, which I find aesthetically pleasing) and so I always take them by 4x4 into the base first. There is NO OTHER REASON why I bring the bags into the Wasteland. No sir."

 

[theFlu]

Unless they have modeled downdraft or the wind from the rear prop, ain't no way that'll work.

Ye, no, wasn't thinking about any air flow, just about trying to fly in a 1x2 tube downhill ... I assume it wouldn't go too great

Mineshaft would have about 3 benefits, 1) you get the ramp/gravity assist, I don't see** flat terrain being used for the transit,  2) you'll get to loot in relative safety underground and 3) you'll get an actual mine for the trouble.

** EDITed in, completely cut my thought out there it seems

The only real use case would be relatively low gamestage horde base near a wasteland, on a suitable hill with a little digging on each side. You'd need to get to make the base outside of spawn range from the wasteland and roll the baggies downhill for a total of something like 100m. That basically requires a mineshaft + hill. Plus a tower base on top.

Doable, but it'll be the theme of a playthrough for a rather temporary boost.

I guess for PhD-level credit you need to figure out the minimum useful slope

I only tested the 45:s, but the lower ones might work just as well - it's not like the bags rolled on their own that much even on 45, so as long as the ramp determines the direction, anything might work. Would need to test.

OOH! - could you use a short drop to push a bag into the back of a 4x4? Because that gives me rationalization for my cheesing the RNG mechanic.

That sounds interesting enough to give a quick test, a funnel below the horde with a hatch at the bottom.. I am pretty sure the bags will just bounce all over thou

 

[Boidster]

I am pretty sure the bags will just bounce all over thou

HAHAHA TFP has already thought of our schemes and foiled us! The bags just drop through the truck like it isn't there. CURSE YOU PIMPS!  :yell:

 

[theFlu]

HAHAHA TFP has already thought of our schemes and foiled us! The bags just drop through the truck like it isn't there. CURSE YOU PIMPS! 

Darnit! Always a step ahead.. Not surprised; with my manual pushing test, the bag hitboxes seemed like a dot at the sharp end of a bag with another at the bottom.. and the vehicle hitboxes, well lets not even go there.

I could not assume it would work even if I tried. Sounded fun thou

 

[Brian9824]

Yeah sounds like it makes sense, was mainly curious in relation to someone whining about how the POI boost gives them an advantage over those who build base from scratch