PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

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So, I don't know if this was ever brought up, but I was looking for a way to improve my feel for progression in melee weapons without modifying the DPS (which can feel like a rabbit hole at times).

What about targeting the buffs instead? (Bleed, knockback, stun...)

For instance, a stone sledgehammer / wood club would almost never knockback a zombie, whereas the steel ones would have a much better chance to do so?

This would allow for a 6 quality sledge to deal more damage than a 1 quality one with still making the upgrade to steel very much interesting. (Which might be debatable as of now.)

Is there a mod like this? Is this even possible in the current state of the game?

 
All this rage over building blocks reminded me of the sheer R A G E people spewed out in A19 when the loot was changed to where you wouldn't find steel tools week one. So many wall of text rants about how they would never play again and how it made it pointless to do PoI before X week because all the loot containers  would have lower tier loot so they had to wait until gamestage X to get anything good, and how it made no sense that a sealed wooden box had a stone axe in it etc etc etc etc

Loot change was healthy for game. Block change is healthy for game. Farming change is healthy for game.  Drone change to scale with Int and Pipe Baton change to actually scale (well) with the baton tree will be  healthy for game.

I can't remember the drama of the week (drama of the alpha?) for A17 and A18 etc, I'm sure they had something that triggered a horde night on the forums for Roland to sigh at

 
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How does this work? 😀

OS: Windows 10  (10.0.19044) 64bit
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3500 6-Core Processor  (cores: 6)
 RAM: 16330 MB
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (5980 MB)
 Graphics API: Direct3D 11.0 [level 11.1] (shader level 5.0)


Спойлер





 
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I'll try to explain my position on why I don't like this block HP change as briefly as I can:

  • I like to build legit Blood Moon bases that are also pleasant to the eye and space efficient
  • My "crafting base" and Blood Moon base are often the same (I like to play like that): which adds additional challenge to the game, since you need to be extra-careful protecting your storage and crafting stations
  • Since I also live there, I usually have a 5x5 blocks base where I can place stuff
  • I do use 4x poles adjacent to each other and arches that run from the top because I like how it looks even if it's a BM base: now I'll just 4x full blocks.
  • To free up all the 5x5 blocks inside, I usually put the actual walls on the outside, but I use plates so that the base doesn't look blocky or ugly. I also like to put curved arches/blocks inside or outside to use as ledges or to feel I have more space inside.
  • Since I hang my storage crates on the walls, with this change I'm basically forced to change the layout, and instead I'll use full blocks for the outside to avoid spitting cops destroying my storage by chance
  • I also use half blocks or "fancy" blocks to avoid crouching zombies (or dogs) getting through while I'm confronting them in melee combat (they can hit me the same way I can hit them) so I don't see how this is to be considered "cheesy". Basically, I put a Hatch on the ground and fill the top with smaller block to stop crawling zeds to pass through. In the future, I'll use a bigger/uglier block (with more hit points) but reach the same net result.
  • For those who say, well, "tough luck!" you'll need to change your base layout! ... Sure, I can do that. And I can already tell you that it won't change a thing from a balance perspective: I can achieve the same result with much uglier (but sturdier) blocks. I was already doing that way before A20, so...


That's why I think the block HP change will only damage creativity in base building, since anyone with a grain of salt won't keep using the weaker blocks anymore, but just revert to pre-A20 base layouts with uglier and sturdier blocks.

As for the animosity I've seen on this forum lately, I personally don't share any of that, I don't think TFP make changes based on how much they can upset players or anything like that. I often agree with their choices when I understand the "bigger picture", but in this case I'm explaining why, from my perspective, this is a bad change.

I'm just not a mindless drone who always needs to agree with devs.

I hope this will be helpful for the designer/dev team.

Thanks

 
DEADFACE said:
IMO, people only called melee basses cheesy because the zombie AI doesn't perform well. If the AI were upgraded so that they would actually attack the structure instead of running in place or swinging and missing everything.

Ultimately, the solution to cheese bases will have to involve AI/pathing/attack enhancements (no this doesn't necessarily mean making zombies "smart").
Click to expand...


If this was true, what does lowering the block HP do? You're saying the zombies did not attack the blocks at all right?

 
Khalagar said:
where you wouldn't find steel tools week one.

where you would only find level 1 stone tools no matter what container or POI you looted.
Click to expand...


Fixed that for you.

Phrasing is everything. Loot in alpha 19 wasn't "healthy", it was broken. Now it isn't because people complained and the developers tweaked it. If no one cared when something is broken, then the devs wouldn't fix it and it would stay broken. Rants are necessary, cause they're feedback too.

I can't speak for the farming/block health changes because I haven't had my experience with them yet, but if they are as broken as loot in A19 was, then the rants are justified and they're up for some tweaking as well.

 
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how to play?
Restarting doesn't help
 

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[Physics.PhysX] TriangleMesh::loadFromDesc: desc.isValid() failed!

Failed setting triangles. Some indices are referencing out of bounds vertices. IndexCount: 3441, VertexCount: 668

Failed setting triangles. Some indices are referencing out of bounds vertices. IndexCount: 3441, VertexCount: 668

[Physics.PhysX] TriangleMesh::loadFromDesc: desc.isValid() failed!

viber-2021-12-18-16-09-01-902.jpg


 
(Spoilers!) I was watching Kage's video where he died in the green house with all the graves in the basement. I died in that same spot in that same house a few days ago. That place is a death trap.

 
Roland said:
You can accurately get smug out of text? Bach was saying that 10 complainers got a change they wanted. I was letting him know that at least in this case that wasn't so. I just gave the true account, man. I'm sorry if that disillusions you. The devs definitely listen to complaints. They know all about this initial reaction to the block change. They also have their plans. In the case of LOTL 2 they knew that it needed to be buffed and the steps needed to smoothed out. I'm sure there have been balancing changes completely due to user complaints even if this particular case wasn't one of them. Even if everyone would have been gleeful about the farming change, LOTL 2 was going to get changed. But you needn't suppose that just because I set the record straight about this case that I'm somehow making a sweeping statement that the devs never listen to community feedback. That is just crazy.
Click to expand...
Well i understand why they simplifed upgrading blocks - more shapes = more textures etc. but upgrading was so good exp grinder so i hope they will just buff number of exp per upgrade

 
Jost Amman said:
I'll try to explain my position on why I don't like this block HP change as briefly as I can:

  • I like to build legit Blood Moon bases that are also pleasant to the eye and space efficient
  • My "crafting base" and Blood Moon base are often the same (I like to play like that): which adds additional challenge to the game, since you need to be extra-careful protecting your storage and crafting stations
  • Since I also live there, I usually have a 5x5 blocks base where I can place stuff
  • I do use 4x poles adjacent to each other and arches that run from the top because I like how it looks even if it's a BM base: now I'll just 4x full blocks.
  • To free up all the 5x5 blocks inside, I usually put the actual walls on the outside, but I use plates so that the base doesn't look blocky or ugly. I also like to put curved arches/blocks inside or outside to use as ledges or to feel I have more space inside.
  • Since I hang my storage crates on the walls, with this change I'm basically forced to change the layout, and instead I'll use full blocks for the outside to avoid spitting cops destroying my storage by chance
  • I also use half blocks or "fancy" blocks to avoid crouching zombies (or dogs) getting through while I'm confronting them in melee combat (they can hit me the same way I can hit them) so I don't see how this is to be considered "cheesy". Basically, I put a Hatch on the ground and fill the top with smaller block to stop crawling zeds to pass through. In the future, I'll use a bigger/uglier block (with more hit points) but reach the same net result.
  • For those who say, well, "tough luck!" you'll need to change your base layout! ... Sure, I can do that. And I can already tell you that it won't change a thing from a balance perspective: I can achieve the same result with much uglier (but sturdier) blocks. I was already doing that way before A20, so...


That's why I think the block HP change will only damage creativity in base building, since anyone with a grain of salt won't keep using the weaker blocks anymore, but just revert to pre-A20 base layouts with uglier and sturdier blocks.

As for the animosity I've seen on this forum lately, I personally don't share any of that, I don't think TFP make changes based on how much they can upset players or anything like that. I often agree with their choices when I understand the "bigger picture", but in this case I'm explaining why, from my perspective, this is a bad change.

I'm just not a mindless drone who always needs to agree with devs.

I hope this will be helpful for the designer/dev team.

Thanks
Click to expand...
My advice :

Make 10-20 block length spike field and after another  blood moon repair all destroyed spikes and add 5 more block from each side 

 
Khalagar said:
All this rage over building blocks reminded me of the sheer R A G E people spewed out in A19 when the loot was changed to where you wouldn't find steel tools week one. So many wall of text rants about how they would never play again and how it made it pointless to do PoI before X week because all the loot containers  would have lower tier loot so they had to wait until gamestage X to get anything good, and how it made no sense that a sealed wooden box had a stone axe in it etc etc etc etc

Loot change was healthy for game. Block change is healthy for game. Farming change is healthy for game.  Drone change to scale with Int and Pipe Baton change to actually scale (well) with the baton tree will be  healthy for game.

I can't remember the drama of the week (drama of the alpha?) for A17 and A18 etc, I'm sure they had something that triggered a horde night on the forums for Roland to sigh at
Click to expand...


A16 to A17: zombies digging because underground bases were an "unacceptable exploit".

I couldn't care less how people are playing this game so if you wanna build an underground base and not taking on the hordes it's on you, but I really think the hp reduction for some blocks are not a good thing.

The farming change? Yeah, for me is a great change and I love it. I'm planning a massive farm, much bigger than my old 1080 farm plots in A18.

 
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Jost Amman said:
I'll try to explain my position on why I don't like this block HP change as briefly as I can:

  • I like to build legit Blood Moon bases that are also pleasant to the eye and space efficient
  • My "crafting base" and Blood Moon base are often the same (I like to play like that): which adds additional challenge to the game, since you need to be extra-careful protecting your storage and crafting stations
  • Since I also live there, I usually have a 5x5 blocks base where I can place stuff
  • I do use 4x poles adjacent to each other and arches that run from the top because I like how it looks even if it's a BM base: now I'll just 4x full blocks.
  • To free up all the 5x5 blocks inside, I usually put the actual walls on the outside, but I use plates so that the base doesn't look blocky or ugly. I also like to put curved arches/blocks inside or outside to use as ledges or to feel I have more space inside.
  • Since I hang my storage crates on the walls, with this change I'm basically forced to change the layout, and instead I'll use full blocks for the outside to avoid spitting cops destroying my storage by chance
  • I also use half blocks or "fancy" blocks to avoid crouching zombies (or dogs) getting through while I'm confronting them in melee combat (they can hit me the same way I can hit them) so I don't see how this is to be considered "cheesy". Basically, I put a Hatch on the ground and fill the top with smaller block to stop crawling zeds to pass through. In the future, I'll use a bigger/uglier block (with more hit points) but reach the same net result.
  • For those who say, well, "tough luck!" you'll need to change your base layout! ... Sure, I can do that. And I can already tell you that it won't change a thing from a balance perspective: I can achieve the same result with much uglier (but sturdier) blocks. I was already doing that way before A20, so...


That's why I think the block HP change will only damage creativity in base building, since anyone with a grain of salt won't keep using the weaker blocks anymore, but just revert to pre-A20 base layouts with uglier and sturdier blocks.
Click to expand...
But none of that will actually even happen...

The ai hasn't focused on blocks that weren't directly adjacent to the player in a very long time and destroy area mode just doesn't last that long.

To be honest, you use the 4x poles because the 4x hp gain and SI redundancy and not because of aesthetics, or this change wouldn't matter to you, and frankly that 4x hp was already overkill.

Cops won't spit at you through walls so it doesn't matter what blocks are on the outside and the inside.  The only reasons for using 2-3 block deep walls are if you're doing a brute force base, or more typically if you're trying to ensure that the Z's path away from that area without attacking it and towards a weaker position where you can engage them in a controlled fashion. According to your description of the use of hatches your use case would be the latter.

The only use case that's even in question is the practice of using poles as the final barrier at the player position, and if you were doing that behind a single block then you might have an issue since they no longer downgrade, but you could solve that by just putting another pole behind it. Which honestly should've been the play given they don't downgrade any more, but long time players are going to shy away from this, not because of aesthetics, but because of needing that final barrier to have fewer hps than the surrounding walls to ensure the Z's path correctly. Well guess what? Now they do and now you can, making the entire question moot.

The other reason poles are used even though they take increased damage is because of their smaller bit boxes they don't get hit as often.

Also, since you can adjust the Z block damage without having to mod a single thing the entire question is completely irrelevant and boils down to "Change is hard! OMG TFP ruinz everything!" 

Don't panic.

 
Neminsis said:
But none of that will actually even happen...

The ai hasn't focused on blocks that weren't directly adjacent to the player in a very long time and destroy area mode just doesn't last that long.

To be honest, you use the 4x poles because the 4x hp gain and SI redundancy and not because of aesthetics, or this change wouldn't matter to you, and frankly that 4x hp was already overkill.

Cops won't spit at you through walls so it doesn't matter what blocks are on the outside and the inside.  The only reasons for using 2-3 block deep walls are if you're doing a brute force base, or more typically if you're trying to ensure that the Z's path away from that area without attacking it and towards a weaker position where you can engage them in a controlled fashion. According to your description of the use of hatches your use case would be the latter.

The only use case that's even in question is the practice of using poles as the final barrier at the player position, and if you were doing that behind a single block then you might have an issue since they no longer downgrade, but you could solve that by just putting another pole behind it. Which honestly should've been the play given they don't downgrade any more, but long time players are going to shy away from this, not because of aesthetics, but because of needing that final barrier to have fewer hps than the surrounding walls to ensure the Z's path correctly. Well guess what? Now they do and now you can, making the entire question moot.

The other reason poles are used even though they take increased damage is because of their smaller bit boxes they don't get hit as often.

Also, since you can adjust the Z block damage without having to mod a single thing the entire question is completely irrelevant and boils down to "Change is hard! OMG TFP ruinz everything!" 

Don't panic.
Click to expand...
You spit sentences, but you don't even know what you're talking about.

I've got bars all around my fighting area, so cops can see me, BTW.

And please, stop assuming I'm lying on why I use pole as columns.

As I said, it won't change a thing to switch from poles to full blocks... it's just MUCH uglier.

Anyway, I stayed my case and I only care for TFP to read it, they'll make of it whatever they like.

I don't need entitled kids to teach me how to build bases.

 
So it would take almost 3 in-game weeks to craft a full stack of steel blocks unless you split them in between workbenches. Not complaining, just making an observation.

 
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