PC A20 Developer Diary Discussions

stallionsden said:
Lmao.

Do you need someone to teach you how to use the bow.. maybe how to stealth a poi..i do use the bow and stealth and would be happy to teach you how to play the game.  Many others use the bow and stealth as well. 

One of the best silent weapons in the game.  If you know how to play using bows and stealth and if you don't know how you call it useless 🤔🤔🤔.

I clear t5s with the compound bow with radiated zs in it without waking them.. therrbis 1 example.  Learn how to use the bow and stealth and you to can think the bow and stealth are awesome.  
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Man, you play the warrior difficulty and you stealthing from something, why are you writing about the personal skills to play? 😂

I still do not see the conditions in which I should choose a bow and stealth, not an AK/shotgun and barter/adventurer. All your cool stories have no weight yet

 
stallionsden said:
Many others use the bow and stealth as well. 

One of the best silent weapons in the game.
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100% on board with that. My wife only uses the bows and crossbows, old Skyrim habit. I by myself use silenced guns only for testing them out currently, but will defenitely switch back to the Compound bow after that.

With high enough stealth and light armor at max, you can go up to a sleeper and point the arrow directly at their face, one-shooting them every time. Another plus side: They are completely silent. When clearing a skyscraper I really dont want a screamer to interrupt me.

But even silenced guns generate heat. And that is an absolutely correct design decision. Everyone who was shooting silenced by themself will tell you, that silenced guns are NOT silent.

I will mention, after hyping the bow, that maces are equally wonderful. They generate no heat and you one-hit _most_ zombies with a running flung at max perk.

bachgaman said:
Man, you play the warrior difficulty and you stealthing from something, why are you writing about the personal skills to play? 😂

I still do not see the conditions in which I should choose a bow and stealth, not an AK/shotgun and barter/adventurer. All your cool stories have no weight yet
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Different people prefer different play styles. No one has more or less weoght because he or she enjoys to playing their games another way. Thats the wonderfull thing with most games. You can choose between different styles. You can choose the one thats fun for YOU.

 
Mistwraith said:
Different people prefer different play styles. No one has more or less weoght because he or she enjoys to playing their games another way. Thats the wonderfull thing with most games. You can choose between different styles. You can choose the one thats fun for YOU.
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We could call these "different styles" if they gave the same result. This is not the case. Playing with bow and stealth on Warrior difficulty is like riding a bike with square wheels.

Would you say that riding with square wheels is a different style of bike handling? I would not say so. I would find a better word

 
bachgaman said:
We could call these "different styles" if they gave the same result. This is not the case. Playing with bow and stealth on Warrior difficulty is like riding a bike with square wheels.

Would you say that riding with square wheels is a different style of bike handling? I would not say so. I would find a better word
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I would call it "enoyable".

Sometimes I just want to murder a crapton of mobs, thats the time Serious Sam has to be dusted off again, or a game from the Borderlands series.

Another time I want my hardcore RPG strategy, and Dragon Age and the like deliver.

And another time I want my Survival/Crafting game and have the feeling I have to sneak around in zombie infested areas that are lethal to me when detected.

Its just a question of my current mood for me. Am I in the mood for stealth kills, sneaking away and feeling threatened? Then its 7DTD. For action, I have plenty of other games.

Am I in the mood for ripping apart gang members with mantis blades while listening to metal music? Then its Cyberpunk2077 today.

Different people have fun with different experiences. And handicapping yourself IS enjoyable for some players. Me included. Not every time. Not in every game. But in a survival game I was looking for survival, not for Call of Duty.

If you enjoy the Call of Duty style in 7DTD, if its fun to you, then go for it and let me wish you fun and good loot.

But its not always about efficiency. Games are also about emotions.

 
bachgaman said:
Man, you play the warrior difficulty and you stealthing from something, why are you writing about the personal skills to play? 😂

I still do not see the conditions in which I should choose a bow and stealth, not an AK/shotgun and barter/adventurer. All your cool stories have no weight yet
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Well ofc you have to actually be skilled and patient to be able to use a bow and stealth.  🤔🥱😉

Mistwraith said:
100% on board with that. My wife only uses the bows and crossbows, old Skyrim habit. I by myself use silenced guns only for testing them out currently, but will defenitely switch back to the Compound bow after that.

With high enough stealth and light armor at max, you can go up to a sleeper and point the arrow directly at their face, one-shooting them every time. Another plus side: They are completely silent. When clearing a skyscraper I really dont want a screamer to interrupt me.

But even silenced guns generate heat. And that is an absolutely correct design decision. Everyone who was shooting silenced by themself will tell you, that silenced guns are NOT silent.

I will mention, after hyping the bow, that maces are equally wonderful. They generate no heat and you one-hit _most_ zombies with a running flung at max perk.

Different people prefer different play styles. No one has more or less weoght because he or she enjoys to playing their games another way. Thats the wonderfull thing with most games. You can choose between different styles. You can choose the one thats fun for YOU.
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Yep agree is what is great about this game so many ways to play. Just a shame someone thinks we should have to play the game their way  

But yeh agree stealthing a sky scraper or a t5 is great. Agree with the silenced weapons  tho I don't know bout the silencer on a shotgun lol seems weird to me. But some put it on it.

All to them to. 

 
bachgaman said:
We could call these "different styles" if they gave the same result. This is not the case. Playing with bow and stealth on Warrior difficulty is like riding a bike with square wheels.

Would you say that riding with square wheels is a different style of bike handling? I would not say so. I would find a better word
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This is a ridiculous argument. Who are you to criticize how someone else plays the game? If they get more enjoyment out of killing Zs with a bow instead of a gun, more power to them. It actually takes more skill to do it this way, so he (and the hundreds if not thousands of others who play this way) are getting more out of the experience.

 
bachgaman said:
We could call these "different styles" if they gave the same result. This is not the case. Playing with bow and stealth on Warrior difficulty is like riding a bike with square wheels.
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Calling serious BS on this one.  I watch my husband take them out all the time with a bow using his stealth build. Hell, I've seen him sneak up on a zed and stab them in the head with a hunting knife and one shot them. And yes, we play on Warrior. So stealth and the bow works just fine. Sounds like operator error to me.

 
Syphon583 said:
This is a ridiculous argument. Who are you to criticize how someone else plays the game? If they get more enjoyment out of killing Zs with a bow instead of a gun, more power to them. It actually takes more skill to do it this way, so he (and the hundreds if not thousands of others who play this way) are getting more out of the experience.
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That. If anything, the one who plays the game the best is the one that takes the most enjoyment out of it. This isn't a competitive game where one goes for high scores or victories over opponents.  And there are oh-so-many ways to enjoy 7 Days to Die -- from slugfest brawlers to long ranged snipers to stealthy assassins and even beyond that to making prefabs and modding and even hand crafting worlds.

 
Kalex said:
Calling serious BS on this one.  I watch my husband take them out all the time with a bow using his stealth build. Hell, I've seen him sneak up on a zed and stab them in the head with a hunting knife and one shot them. And yes, we play on Warrior. So stealth and the bow works just fine. Sounds like operator error to me.
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Great, I'm sure he also reaches the crucible, truck, concrete base and auger by day 7, just like me. I believe

 
dcsobral said:
That's a common trope on apocalypse fiction that just doesn't stand to scrutiny. People usually think of gas or toilet paper scarcity in times of panic, but there are two key differences. First, the people doing panicking and buying stuff are all alive to do it. Second, the scarcity is happening on the point of sale -- basically, there's people with stocks large enough to last for months or years which is why others have nothing.

On the traditional zombie apocalypse, though, we are talking about 99% fatality rate within days, and then up from there. People had little time to buy stuff, and no time to use it. Supplies that would last one week for ten thousand people will last 25 years for one.

An 8-players server on an 8k map has 21% the population density of Wyoming, less than 3% of Arizona. And 8k maps are really rather urban compared to a whole state. If we are going to go with what the setting calls for instead of what gameplay balance calls for, loot is way too scarce.
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Let's also remember that fun/ balance trumps realism. The game will be tuned to what the developers feel is best for gameplay, not necessarily a hypothetical real life scenario.

 
Syphon583 said:
This is a ridiculous argument. Who are you to criticize how someone else plays the game? If they get more enjoyment out of killing Zs with a bow instead of a gun, more power to them. It actually takes more skill to do it this way, so he (and the hundreds if not thousands of others who play this way) are getting more out of the experience.
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Does Warrior difficulty require skill? Are you seriously? haha

It wasn't about enjoyment, by the way. It was about the usefulness of the perks. These perks are useless, because in any situation you can do without them by getting more.

 
stallionsden said:
Well ofc you have to actually be skilled and patient to be able to use a bow and stealth.  🤔🥱😉
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Not have to. Especially on the difficulty you are playing. On this difficulty, you can complete the game with a torch as a weapon. True, the speed of completing will be similar to the speed of completing with a bow.

Mistwraith said:
I would call it "enoyable".

Sometimes I just want to murder a crapton of mobs, thats the time Serious Sam has to be dusted off again, or a game from the Borderlands series.

Another time I want my hardcore RPG strategy, and Dragon Age and the like deliver.

And another time I want my Survival/Crafting game and have the feeling I have to sneak around in zombie infested areas that are lethal to me when detected.

Its just a question of my current mood for me. Am I in the mood for stealth kills, sneaking away and feeling threatened? Then its 7DTD. For action, I have plenty of other games.

Am I in the mood for ripping apart gang members with mantis blades while listening to metal music? Then its Cyberpunk2077 today.

Different people have fun with different experiences. And handicapping yourself IS enjoyable for some players. Me included. Not every time. Not in every game. But in a survival game I was looking for survival, not for Call of Duty.

If you enjoy the Call of Duty style in 7DTD, if its fun to you, then go for it and let me wish you fun and good loot.

But its not always about efficiency. Games are also about emotions.
Click to expand...
Okay, so in theory you could enjoy playing the game without improving perks. Would that make unimproving perks useful?

 
bachgaman said:
For a game with developmental asymmetry to be interesting, the developmental options must also be balanced against one another, so they are all valid choices (с) 😂
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That probably depends on your definition of "valid". Example: maybe for some, a valid choice must be something efficient and as good as any other choice. For others, like me, it's a valid choice if it provides me with a different and fun new way to play the game, even if, compared to other play styles, it may seem under powered.

 
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