PC Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[meilodasreh]

...checks in, sees dumb arguments, sees roland participating in dumb arguments, remembers that historically that means RELEASE IS IMMINENT (ish).

omg you're right. I can see it now, too.

We're actively being distressed by every staff guy (devs, forum mods, QA,...).

They even push further any whatsoever ridiculous argument about preferably most off-topic subjects, just to keep us from whining about the feeling-greatly-delayed public release of an even "pre-ante-experimental-alpha" (yes, that's six layers of "not final").

And me idiot totally fell for it!

I even mentioned it several times, that this thread is completely away from its original intention, without seeing the great evil plan behind it.

...no more!

ARE WE THERE YET???

 

[Khalagar]

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

Development on this game was stalled out because of Telltale going out of business and taking the console version of 7 Days to Die with it, and starting a gigantic legal battle etc.

The current version of this game is also *VERY* different from the 2013 version, to the point there's probably less in common with A20 and A1 than there is with Destiny 2 and Destiny 1

 

[JamesKirk]

The first release of this game was in 2013.

I checked my bills and found I bought this game back on Sept. 5th 2014 for 23€. Seven years ago.

This was the best investment in my life given the amount of gameplay hours and fun I regained from it.

By now I've accumulated around 2000 hours of gameplay, the last 700 or even more with a band of buddies

I convinced of playing this game with me. Together we've had some epic moments (haha that stupid zombies just fell down the elevator shaft....Aaaargh *censored*.... me too) we'll never forget. Fun, creativity and teamplay are the lessons tought by this game.

I just wanted to say to the Devs: Thx Pimps !!! You gave me endless hours of pure fun and horror, heartattacks included. Cheers for the next 7 years

Although I doubt they will finish their next game before retiring I think I will buy it as soon as it is announced.

Btw. is there any timeline around when which Alpha was released?

Ok, everything is said, now drop A20 !

 

[bachgaman]

No and I really don't care about all of your posts.  I just noted that the thumbs down from them was for posts that I made that were toxic and I shouldn't have done that.

I have seen you been toxic against streamers, against developers, and against others in this forum.  But don't believe me, take a look at your own words just in the streamer thread alone in General discussion.  Pointing out what you have said in the past against others is not persecution or toxic, it's trying to get you to step back and understand that what you are typing is not very helpful or even nice to others.

If I allowed myself to be harsh a few times is this an excuse to harass me for a months and spam negative reactions to all my posts?



Plus, he did it even before I first showed toxicity, so your theory of the toxicity fighter is invalid.

 

[meganoth]

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

For reference, Fifa 23 surely could have been released 2 days after Fifa 22, if EA had wanted to.

A bit more serious, I see an AAA company and a second version, where the standard is to provide just a handful of new features and a graphics update. Hoping for a better example.

How about we make 7D2D the reference, then 7D2D is right on track

 

[Syphon583]

If I had paid more than $11 for this game & at alpha 19, we still have 2D foliage on top of an ever delayed expected release of Alpha 20 (not even full game yet), I'd be absolutely mad. I can't imagine what the youtubers who only play 7days or get the most views from 7 days feel. This is messing with their way to make a living. Alpha 20 hype just completely disappeared for me see it pushed back to December, or rather "first part of, December. So, another 30 days. Wtf...

I also purchased this game at A19. I can't really recall a recent game that I have enjoyed more or put more hours into than 7DTD. To complain about spending $11 for an EA game is astounding to me. You knew what you were getting when you clicked that BUY button. They could have the best looking foliage of any game out right now, and it still wouldn't change the gameplay and how much enjoyment you can get from it. It sounds like maybe this game just isn't for you. That's fair. But don't jump into this forum complaining about the graphics or the soft target window for the release of an alpha for an early access game. If it means that much to you, stop playing and wait for gold.

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

You know you're comparing apples to oranges, right? The Destiny games were developed by large teams of devs who were backed back an enormously large publishing company which reportedly spent something in the neighborhood of $500 million for the first game alone. (and as meganoth mentioned above, Destiny 1 and 2 aren't all that different. Not really hard to do within a couple years) 7DTD, which is a LONG WAY from where it started, is being made by a comparatively smaller team with limited resources. What they've accomplished, not withstanding the other issues they've had to deal with that Khalagar mentioned above, is pretty impressive.

 

[Roland]

Development on this game was stalled out because of Telltale going out of business and taking the console version of 7 Days to Die with it, and starting a gigantic legal battle etc.

This is not really true. I usually have to remind console players that TFP is a PC developer and had little to do with the console port other than providing source code and having some of the programmers work with Iron Galaxy. By the same token, the end of Telltale and the console version did not really affect TFP work. It was lawyers hired by TFP that handled the legalities while the programmers and testers just kept on keeping on.

 

[crazywildfire]

This is not really true. I usually have to remind console players that TFP is a PC developer and had little to do with the console port other than providing source code and having some of the programmers work with Iron Galaxy. By the same token, the end of Telltale and the console version did not really affect TFP work. It was lawyers hired by TFP that handled the legalities while the programmers and testers just kept on keeping on.

Was getting ready to say something similar to this but you beat me to it lol.

........

Like others have said comparing apple and oranges here. Destiny has was more resources and people working on it. So I would hope they can push out a game faster. Then add part 2 and it was basically a DLC to the first game. They basically copied and pasted a bunch of stuff and made a few changes. Besides are you 100% sure when they started working on part 2 or just going by some date that was for an announcement. Either way doesn't change anything so doesn't really matter.

Look ar elder scrolls 6. It was announced in 2018. Not sure when development started. Maybe 2016 or 2017. But lets just say 2018. We know it isn't coming until starfield and that isn't until nov 2022. That is 4 years, plus at least another year or 2 after starfield. So 6ish years and look how big of a company they are.

So it isn't that far fetched for a game to be in development for so long. Especially when it is by a small team with limited resources. Be grateful they still working on it and you getting beyond the money's worth compared to the $60 to $100 games that come out today. 

 

[Blake_]

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

Lol you are cute. Destiny had 500+ of veteran devs and around 140 million US  dollars at the very start (starting with that much people is very important for the programming department specifically). And they took around 4 years since 2010 to release the first one. The Fun Pimps had 3 guys (Madmole, Rick, Robert and the pet give it or take)  and less than 200.000 dollars when they  started developing (kickstarter), with 6-15 people most of the time since. They achieved 45 guys just a year ago and training takes months . Stop comparing Bill Gates with my cat plz. An indie game is not a AAA one. The difference is budget. Yes, after all the success it is still a cheap videogame, so they don't gain that much from it. The weird thing is that they are already quite close to that crazy ambitious kickstarter. And we wouldn't mind even more content.

Don't be deceived by marketing, Skyrim took 6  years to make (yes, desing began at the end of Oblivion, during the Fallout 3 dev cycle)  with ~100 people with all the engine and systems already 80% done (Oblivion through Fallout 3 stuff, like AI, rendering, crappy physics...etc).

A good videogame takes ages to make . That's why with pure resource and money brute force you can only do tons of cool models and animations, but programming is a bottleneck that goes forward little by little (see the Call of Duty franchise for example).

I know you are new to the forums, so welcome, and nevermind your rant, is a valid one, but I hope I helped you see inside the process a bit so you can value the effort of this tiny team. 

 

[Laz Man]

I checked my bills and found I bought this game back on Sept. 5th 2014 for 23€. Seven years ago.

This was the best investment in my life given the amount of gameplay hours and fun I regained from it.

By now I've acculumated around 2000 hours of gameplay, the last 700 or even more with a band of buddies

I convinced of playing this game with me. Together we've had some epic moments (haha that stupid zombies just fell down the elevator shaft....Aaaargh *censored*.... me too) we'll never forget. Fun, creativity and teamplay are the lessons tought by this game.

I just wanted to say to the Devs: Thx Pimps !!! You gave me endless hours of pure fun and horror, heartattacks included. Cheers for the next 7 years

Although I doubt they will finish their next game before retiring I think I will buy it as soon as it is announced.

Btw. is there any timeline around when which Alpha was released?

Ok, everything is said, now drop A20 !

You bring up an excellent point.  Now if 7d2d was a subscription MMO or if they were charging for updates, I can understand some of the angst.

There are also some folks who want it finished so they don't have to keep starting over and over again.  Although I can empathize, 7d2d is a game that restarting new games is part of the fun so that is not really an issue for myself as a player.

 

[wicketness]

How many people can your server support online at the same time?
My server can only support about 15 people at present, and it will be completely delayed and stuck in two to three hours, causing players to drop in batches.
This seems to be a problem after A19.3

currently we had a maximum of 25 on one server. it runs decent but mods and other things affect performance with higher player counts.

we tend to have a lot of zombies as well. at this point 7 days to die pretty much starts punishing the host. Network goes way up, ram start climbing and cpu is spiking alot in the high 30-55% range outta 8 cores.

 

[Blue mame]

currently we had a maximum of 25 on one server. it runs decent but mods and other things affect performance with higher player counts.

we tend to have a lot of zombies as well. at this point 7 days to die pretty much starts punishing the host. Network goes way up, ram start climbing and cpu is spiking alot in the high 30-55% range outta 8 cores.

Then you are lucky. I can’t even exceed 10 players after using some modules. In the original version, after 15 players, a batch of players will be dropped after 1 to 2 hours. And I used to In the A7 version and A16 version, there are 35+ players. It may be that my module prevents me from accommodating more people. I have lost my satisfaction. I am waiting for the release of A20. If it is still the same as A19, it cannot accommodate more people. Multiplayer, I will give up the server

It feels uncomfortable that the suggestions I made in multiple major branches have never been taken seriously. They don't seem to care much about the issue of multi-person online. I have a community of more than 5,000 people, I will transfer

 

[Roland]

It feels uncomfortable that the suggestions I made in multiple major branches have never been taken seriously. They don't seem to care much about the issue of multi-person online. I have a community of more than 5,000 people, I will transfer

Thanks for the feedback. We take it seriously meaning we hear what you are saying and understand what you want. 7 Days to Die is primarily being developed as a PVE experience whether that is you as a lone survivor or you and up to 7 mates working together. It is not being built to be a Fortnight King of the Hill style of game with 50-100 players trying to be the last one standing. PvP of any kind is not really the focus although it is obviously allowed. 

The officially supported number of players is 8 or less which is the perfect number of friends/family to play with each other against the game and the level of camaraderie that this game evokes from players who play together in this way is off the charts and beyond any other game that I have experienced. We have letters from players who share how much this game has benefited their relationships with their rl friends and family members that they play together with. This is what the game is truly about even though you can stretch things to get 20 strangers together killing each other and wrecking each others' forts. That can be fun too, but it is a fun that is being duplicated 100s of times out in the land of video games. There are tons of games that do PvP way better than 7 Days to Die. But there are none that do PvE with friends/family better than 7 Days to Die, imho.

Therefore, I would not expect them increase player counts to the MMO proportions you seem to be wanting. They have talked about working on a PvP mode of the game after gold that may support higher player counts and with some other revisions that will better support PvP but if they do it will just be as gravy. The game they have built which is for up to 8 players working together to survive horde nights and co-operate in exploring, looting, sharing tasks for harvesting, farming, and crafting and coordinating efforts to create a fantastic fort is exactly what they want.

At any rate, you can expect A20 to be very much like A19 as far as number of players supported. With bandits coming in A21 I don't see player counts increasing for that version either. Hope that helps you decide how you want to allocate your gaming time and energy.

 

[Blue mame]

At any rate, you can expect A20 to be very much like A19 as far as number of players supported. With bandits coming in A21 I don't see player counts increasing for that version either. Hope that helps you decide how you want to allocate your gaming time and energy.

Thank you for your answer, if A20 is as bad as A19 multiplayer, I can give up, because there are too many players in our country, if we can only support 10 or even 40, it will not be enough.

It is more interesting for us to interact and communicate with more people than to survive alone. After all, it is a pity if our achievements cannot be seen by more people.

Therefore, I would not expect them increase player counts to the MMO proportions you seem to be wanting. They have talked about working on a PvP mode of the game after gold that may support higher player counts and with some other revisions that will better support PvP but if they do it will just be as gravy. The game they have built which is for up to 8 players working together to survive horde nights and co-operate in exploring, looting, sharing tasks for harvesting, farming, and crafting and coordinating efforts to create a fantastic fort is exactly what they want.

This is where I am very contradictory. I want both an infinite world like Minecraft and a more realistic texture like 7D. Minecraft supports more people, maybe I will consider

 

[crazywildfire]

Thank you for your answer, if A20 is as bad as A19 multiplayer, I can give up, because there are too many players in our country, if we can only support 10 or even 40, it will not be enough.

It is more interesting for us to interact and communicate with more people than to survive alone. After all, it is a pity if our achievements cannot be seen by more people.

This is where I am very contradictory. I want both an infinite world like Minecraft and a more realistic texture like 7D. Minecraft supports more people, maybe I will consider

If minecraft had to count for every block for gravity like 7dtd I can 100% tell you it wouldn't be as big of maps nor as many players. 

 

[wicketness]

You weren't already drunk when you wrote this!?

No, i didn't write a apology till abit later in the thread.

That is what makes you a true Canadien, you apologize and just keep saying I'm Sorry.

I was in a Timmies Induced Coffee rage. I am sorry you had to see that. 

 

[Blue mame]

If minecraft had to count for every block for gravity like 7dtd I can 100% tell you it wouldn't be as big of maps nor as many players. 

And sometimes I want to cancel the restraint of gravity, but they have too many programs associated, and the hard-coded upper limit is only 14 squares. I think the size of the map should be determined by the generated program. The map generated by 7D is stored In the memory, while the Minecraft map generation is saved in the hard disk, it stands to reason that as long as the hard disk is infinite, the map of Minecraft will be infinite.
Here is a statement: I am not accusing or complaining, but an example




Picture interception time 2021/11/17/6:00 AM

From 4 pm to 0 pm, the server on the first page has a maximum of 100 people, and the minimum is no less than 30 people. There are programmers in our country who have rebuilt the server to support more people, but you don’t care at all. these questions

 

[Blue mame]

From 4 pm to 0 pm, the server on the first page has a maximum of 100 people, and the minimum is no less than 30 people. There are programmers in our country who have rebuilt the server to support more people, but you don’t care at all. these questions

I am referring to 100 players on a single-player server, don’t understand the error

 

[mstdv inc]

Thanks for the feedback. We take it seriously meaning we hear what you are saying and understand what you want. 7 Days to Die is primarily being developed as a PVE experience whether that is you as a lone survivor or you and up to 7 mates working together. It is not being built to be a Fortnight King of the Hill style of game with 50-100 players trying to be the last one standing. PvP of any kind is not really the focus although it is obviously allowed.

The officially supported number of players is 8 or less which is the perfect number of friends/family to play with each other against the game and the level of camaraderie that this game evokes from players who play together in this way is off the charts and beyond any other game that I have experienced. We have letters from players who share how much this game has benefited their relationships with their rl friends and family members that they play together with. This is what the game is truly about even though you can stretch things to get 20 strangers together killing each other and wrecking each others' forts. That can be fun too, but it is a fun that is being duplicated 100s of times out in the land of video games. There are tons of games that do PvP way better than 7 Days to Die. But there are none that do PvE with friends/family better than 7 Days to Die, imho.

Therefore, I would not expect them increase player counts to the MMO proportions you seem to be wanting. They have talked about working on a PvP mode of the game after gold that may support higher player counts and with some other revisions that will better support PvP but if they do it will just be as gravy. The game they have built which is for up to 8 players working together to survive horde nights and co-operate in exploring, looting, sharing tasks for harvesting, farming, and crafting and coordinating efforts to create a fantastic fort is exactly what they want.

At any rate, you can expect A20 to be very much like A19 as far as number of players supported. With bandits coming in A21 I don't see player counts increasing for that version either. Hope that helps you decide how you want to allocate your gaming time and energy.

For this reason, I wanted to know the statistics of the solo / co-op / server.Now I have no doubt that the servers in this game are secondary.
I have played 900 hours of solo, most of my friends play solo or co-op.
Despite the large number of servers active on them it is very weak, and only a few are of interest for the game.

I agree with the words that there are other projects to get a good PvP gaming experience. There is already too much MMO garbage in the world now and it makes no sense to turn our favorite game into another copy.

 

[Blake_]

This is where I am very contradictory. I want both an infinite world like Minecraft and a more realistic texture like 7D. Minecraft supports more people, maybe I will consider

7dtd eats A LOT of RAM and VRAM on bigger maps. That's due to the fact that the level of quality far surpasses Minecraft, not only in texture detail, but also in mesh quality, physics calculations and of course in overall complexity (AI, framework,rendering, gameplay systems) . 

I wish they would make crazy map sizes for the future like 32768 x 32768 or even 65536 x 65536, because those are sizes that would take an 8 player party 100-200 hours to completely explore while having a nomad playstyle, which is more than enough for this game. More than that is just not worth it,

By the time 7dtd is finished (which might very well be in 2024) there will be technology available to support maps that need 40+ GB of VIDEO memory to function properly, like that hypothetical  65k one.

The DDR5 standard (recently released to the masses, so still expensive) and faster CPUs will help a ton too. I mean DDR5 general purpose RAM is already as fast as the GDDR4 standard for GPUs, so relying heavily on that will not be so bad.