PC I finally found a way to make the game interesting

[Matt115]

I don't think you are. They already implemented virtually the same thing as level loss for death except it was temporary so people (min/maxer oriented people again) sat around waiting for the curse to end because they couldn't stomach the thought of harvesting or taking any action at less than optimal efficiency for their character. It was a 60 minute death curse that got reduced to 30 minutes and then finally removed.  But they could easily implement a permanent level loss for dying. It's already all there if they want it and they would just make it permanent rather than on a timer. I'm not sure why you think this would result in 20 different profiles You would simply lose the level and any skills that no longer could function would become red until your level was recovered.

I don't think they will return to this though-- not because of technical limitations but because of memory of the backlash the last time they went down this road.

Well but it could lock some schematics right? so now in theory- what if you get schematics from skill and you doing it in workbench but you die bettwen this. So it could create bug becaue now you can't do this thing. 

Well i forget it can be create in this way.  I was thing in grandpa's elixir but 1 lvl only.  So do this in this way could be very hard to implement

 

[JCrook1028]

You call it a survival game yourself.

That right there is your problem. It is not a "survival" game. It is a game with elements from many genre's of which survival is one. get that fact thru your head.

 

[Roland]

Well but it could lock some schematics right? so now in theory- what if you get schematics from skill and you doing it in workbench but you die bettwen this. So it could create bug becaue now you can't do this thing. 

Well i forget it can be create in this way.  I was thing in grandpa's elixir but 1 lvl only.  So do this in this way could be very hard to implement

Can't that scenario happen now if you are wearing glasses to give yourself a level to be able to craft something but then remove the glasses? What bug happens?

 

[Matt115]

Can't that scenario happen now if you are wearing glasses to give yourself a level to be able to craft something but then remove the glasses? What bug happens?

I forget about this XD 

 

[meganoth]

The last time I played with my friends, they died 40+ times in 40 days. Not because they are mentally disabled, but because they know that they will get nothing for it. And because of this, they don't try to survive. So when we finally built the base and took the bloody horde head-on, they practically caught up with me in levels. Such a punishment. If you play solo, then perhaps this can be considered a punishment if you ignore one nuance that you indicated below. The more you die, the lower the game stage and the easier it is to play. Haha. The game rewards weak dying players by making it easier for them to play. It's just great. Yes, along with this they find the appropriate loot, but does anyone care about that. What loot will give you immortality? Especially if you don't care if you die or not.

As I said, knowing this is not good for the game, but the knowledge is out of the bottle. As Roland said the developers don't want to incur a really stiff death penalty because of all the players complaining about it and so there is the situation that either people value their in-game lifes and have fun, or they don't and then they sometimes don't have fun.

My group of friends has no problem putting a high price on our lifes and the last time one of us died he really got into a bad mood because of his death. I would call that the right mind set.

You have a group of friends who are really not compatible with the way you want to play the game, it seems. If the game had a "dead is dead" aka "permanent death mode", would your friends even accept to play with this switch turned on? To me that seems doubtful. 

Do not deceive me or yourself by claiming that this game may have some goals other than survival. Yes, for the first time it's really fun to build traps, build a car, or build a gyrocopter. But this is done in the first 30 hours of gameplay, and this is if you play slowly without looking at videos and guides and if you studying everything yourself. Ultimately, all these are tools for survival and nothing more. The only sign of all these and the "achievements" listed by you is the usefulness in survival. There is little scope in this game for truly ambitious non-survival goals. For example, for several weeks I was building a fully automated plant for the extraction, sorting and processing of ores in minecraft with some complex industrial mods. I didn't care about survival and it was interesting. In this game, there are no such possibilities even close. All you can do is a maximum of 30 hours of gameplay. The rest of the time you will repeat the past.

30 hours? Ok, in SP I usually have fun for maybe 50 hours until I drop out. But I take my time, especially playing AGILITY one doesn't level that fast. So? Can you show me some pamphlet that says 7D2D has some specific minimum hours it should run? 

But I know of players playing a world for hundreds of hours. I have heard they often build seriously big buildings or even cities, just like in minecraft. Just that minecraft has a lot more automation, not sure if already in vanilla or through mods. If I want automation I usually play Factorio, but thats beside the point.

I don't see why building a horde base from idea to finish (which is usually what drives me in this game) would not suffice as a goal. Or just surving (which actually points to this game being a survival game if you let it). But I distinctly said that those goals are only there if you choose to go for them, like in a sandbox game. Because this is a sandbox game as well. I already said that but it seems you missed that somehow

I also spoke about a real in-game goal that will be added to the game with bandits. You complain somewhere else that it isn't in A19, not even in A20. Yes. TFP take their time. They were never faster. I expect bandits in A21 and I expect A21 in a year. If it takes even longer, so be it. This is a game in development and you can always choose to play this game only after release if incomplete features that take ages don't suit you. I have no doubts that as long as TFP still exists in the next years there will be bandits in the game and they will provide one actual in-game goal.

By the way, the 800 bullets on day 1 you mentioned: This is another unfinished work, trader loot and rewards should have been rebalanced in A20, but this was postponed to A21, I assume because they fundamentaly changed the looting code because of the RWG changes and so had no time for that. Yes, TFP is slow for anyone looking from outside, don't expect this to change.

And about the fact that I have to recreate the game after death, okay, but what about in the group? I do not play this game alone. And why do you put some people's goals above others? Why is there an opportunity for some, but not for others? After all, I'm not the only one who would like to see the "1 life" mode at least in some form, there are a lot of people like me.

Not my choice to add such a feature, but If I want to play dead is dead I will. I know lots of people here who at least say they play dead is dead.

My advice: If you are playing on some external server and want to start over again once you die then contact the server owner so he deletes your character for you. And ignore what your friends do.

 

[Matt115]

But I know of players playing a world for hundreds of hours. I have heard they often build seriously big buildings or even cities, just like in minecraft. Only minecraft has a lot more automation, not sure if already in vanilla or through mods.

This is vanilla ; redstone can do a lot but only works good on java version. On windows version it sometimes create stange bugs

 

[Roland]

By the way, the 800 bullets on day 1 you mentioned: This is another unfinished work, trader loot and rewards should have been rebalanced in A20, but this was postponed to A21, I assume because they fundamentaly changed the looting code because of the RWG changes and so had no time for that. Yes, TFP is slow for anyone looking from outside, don't expect this to change.

Actually I just saw a ticket this morning that changed ammo and throwables quest rewards to half the amount they were in A19. But....this won't change the fact that someone can still spam the quests and get 400 bullets instead of 800 and probably a dozen or so molotovs and pipe bombs. 

And if someone wants to do that and is happy with the result more power to them. I can respect min/maxers who min/max and enjoy it and have fun with the results they get. What I don't respect is someone choosing to play in a way that destroys their fun and they will not (or cannot) stop themselves even when it is pointed out to them. Why continue to suffer when the solution is so easy?  Don't we all have a huge pile of unplayed games collecting dust or sitting there greyed out uninstalled in our Steam Library because we stopped having fun with them and so we...uh...stopped playing them? Why self flagellate with a video game? At least with this one instead of uninstalling you can play a mod or you can (in classic sandbox fashion I might add which is also one of the genres in the mix) set your own goals, challenges, and limitations and enjoy that for yourself.

 

[pahbi]

Since, obviously, nothing of the proposed will never appear in the game, I reasoned that since I do not like the fact that the game forces me to repeatedly grind the same sad quests (because the trader's rewards are too high and it takes very little time to complete quests located close to the base) i have to simple delete the trader.

So, 

1. I removed all traders from the POI list

2. Installed the Undead Legacy mod (since it, among other things, removed the free opening of all important recipes in the game just for levels, here you can die of hunger and here there is at least some kind of death penalty. I think UL is best big mod btw)

3. Reduced the loot to 50%, disabled loot respawn, set the difficulty level Warrior (there is even no need for the Insane difficulty level at nightmare speed, without 600 rounds (for three people) for each completed tier 1 quest, it becomes quite difficult to play)

And voila, the game became really fun and interesting. We've been surviving for 40 days now, looking for food, moving around a huge 12kmap, looking for a claw hammer to create a workbench (lol), all the time trying to figure out how to defend ourselves against the bloody moon based on what we have, do what we want instead of a stupid grind of quests, we have the option not to push the int attribute for the sake of the imbe perks associated with the trader (Barter and Adventurer). We save ammo, and this is my first time hunting with bow in this game and so on. In general, the game has become unrealistically cool.

I advise everyone to delete the trader and play with real pleasure as true enjoyer.

Its your sandbox!  Go for it! 

 

[Vaeliorin]

1. Yep level is not lost and that's good if you want to lose everything you can just delet save. Lose level is so hard to implemeted so nobody do this - if i good remember one guy working on titan quest talk about this in interview.

There's actually a mod for this.

 

[meganoth]

Actually I just saw a ticket this morning that changed ammo and throwables quest rewards to half the amount they were in A19. But....this won't change the fact that someone can still spam the quests and get 400 bullets instead of 800 and probably a dozen or so molotovs and pipe bombs. 

Ah, nice. Though I think halving that amount is not enough. Even with a mediocre pipe weapon I would guess 100 bullets are at least 20 dead zombies.

And if someone wants to do that and is happy with the result more power to them. I can respect min/maxers who min/max and enjoy it and have fun with the results they get. What I don't respect is someone choosing to play in a way that destroys their fun and they will not (or cannot) stop themselves even when it is pointed out to them. Why continue to suffer when the solution is so easy?  Don't we all have a huge pile of unplayed games collecting dust or sitting there greyed out uninstalled in our Steam Library because we stopped having fun with them and so we...uh...stopped playing them? Why self flagellate with a video game? At least with this one instead of uninstalling you can play a mod or you can (in classic sandbox fashion I might add which is also one of the genres in the mix) set your own goals, challenges, and limitations and enjoy that for yourself.

Since I have called for nerfing the trader as well I can't fault bachgaman for complaining, though. I can only fault him for hyperbole and impatience. 

 

[Matt115]

Ah, nice. Though I think halving that amount is not enough. Even with a mediocre pipe weapon I would guess 100 bullets are at least 20 dead zombies.

Since I have called for nerfing the trader as well I can't fault bachgaman for complaining, though. I can only fault him for hyperbole and impatience. 

Honestly nerfing a trader is not solution- i think the best option it cut steel  parts- this would change mining in something usefull because without it you still need to scavege crates to find tools to scrap to get parts or do quests from traders or  buy 

 

[meganoth]

Honestly nerfing a trader is not solution- i think the best option it cut steel  parts- this would change mining in something usefull because without it you still need to scavege crates to find tools to scrap to get parts or do quests from traders or  buy 

What do you mean? Cut steel parts from where?

 

[Matt115]

What do you mean? Cut steel parts from where?

From game. you now : remove spear parts machete parts , steel too parts etc. Just - make it like steel+ wood + something else like skin, duck tape . Because now after "iron stage" mining is not so usefull as before

 

[meganoth]

From game. you now : remove spear parts machete parts , steel too parts etc. Just - make it like steel+ wood + something else like skin, duck tape . Because now after "iron stage" mining is not so usefull as before

Do you mean the time when the player uses iron tools when you say "iron stage"? I don't get it because after that comes the steel tools stage where mining is finally somewhat efficient.

 

[Guppycur]

Entityclasses.

 

[SnowDog1942]

quite stiff at night.

I may have just what you are looking for.

 

[Matt115]

Do you mean the time when the player uses iron tools when you say "iron stage"? I don't get it because after that comes the steel tools stage where mining is finally somewhat efficient.

It depends on your gamestyle. in my situation it looks like:

Day :120 min.

spawn doing some quests : now everything depends about cement mixer - if trader have this everything will go fast.

Make a forge and mining at night.

If everything going well after 4-5 days i have workbench and now i get iron stage because i can do iron tools.

Anddd.... you can't do nothing more until you find steel tools schematics ( faster that put everything in int) and steel parts. So stop mining because it is pointelss now and you are forced to : scavenging or doing quests

 

[meganoth]

It depends on your gamestyle. in my situation it looks like:

Day :120 min.

spawn doing some quests : now everything depends about cement mixer - if trader have this everything will go fast.

Make a forge and mining at night.

If everything going well after 4-5 days i have workbench and now i get iron stage because i can do iron tools.

Anddd.... you can't do nothing more until you find steel tools schematics ( faster that put everything in int) and steel parts. So stop mining because it is pointelss now and you are forced to : scavenging or doing quests

So you reached iron stage after 4-5 days and then have to wait for steel tools schematics. And you propose that you instantly proceed to get steel tools on day 5-6.

But the schematics progression-gates are in the game for a reason. It is intentional that you can't get to the end of the progression immediately.

Meanwhile horde nights happen and the typical player needs raw materials for walls and traps and ammo and gasoline, so he has to mine (with less efficiency) or hope to find it through looting (which is not possible for clay, stone and wood at least). What is wrong with that?

It is the same thing with guns. In mid game you still don't have the best and most efficient gun. But you will still use your tier-1 or tier-2 gun to kill zombies and not play pacifist until you have the best gun.

 

[Matt115]

So you reached iron stage after 4-5 days and then have to wait for steel tools schematics. And you propose that you instantly proceed to get steel tools on day 5-6.

But the schematics progression-gates are in the game for a reason. It is intentional that you can't get to the end of the progression immediately.

Meanwhile horde nights happen and the typical player needs raw materials for walls and traps and ammo and gasoline, so he has to mine (with less efficiency) or hope to find it through looting (which is not possible for clay, stone and wood at least). What is wrong with that?

It is the same thing with guns. In mid game you still don't have the best and most efficient gun. But you will still use your tier-1 or tier-2 gun to kill zombies and not play pacifist until you have the best gun.

And there came "solutions" : you need materials to upgrade thing - and get exp to get faster better tools. if you have better tools you can spam barber wire and wooden spikes etc so using this you don't need to waste ammo or gasoline for long time because you just have ww1  fortifiction. If you have good tools you can faster destroy door, dig the ground etc so you can faster do quests and loot. Because well- hiting 300 times safe is not fun or destroying another door. so if i spend less time doing this i feel better.  

I agree with end of proggresion but : that's why i would makes guns rare thing a throw junk guns to bin- guns could something like boost - great advantage but for short time ( reduce number of ammo)

 

[meganoth]

And there came "solutions" : you need materials to upgrade thing - and get exp to get faster better tools. if you have better tools you can spam barber wire and wooden spikes etc so using this you don't need to waste ammo or gasoline for long time because you just have ww1  fortifiction. If you have good tools you can faster destroy door, dig the ground etc so you can faster do quests and loot. Because well- hiting 300 times safe is not fun or destroying another door. so if i spend less time doing this i feel better.  

I agree with end of proggresion but : that's why i would makes guns rare thing a throw junk guns to bin- guns could something like boost - great advantage but for short time ( reduce number of ammo)

That is your decision to wait for steel tools, but the game does not need to help you with that (especially when you already made your game easymode with 120minute days).

If it really did make steel tools easily available, iron tools would be a useless step in the progression and would better be removed from the game. Also a ww1 fortification doesn't help you save gasoline.