NPCs rescue missions

[MIOLOmole]

The first person who ever mentioned an advanced AI was you just now. I was simply talking about a "good" AI, i.e. an AI that handles the problems in a way that TFP is satisfied with its quality.

And when you say "it will not pass it until ... or there is a nearby free passage within the magnet range" that is exactly what I was talking about. To find and walk to that nearby free passage the NPC needs AI, that is what I was talking about. Zombies can do that but they also often seem to ignore the easy way i.e. 1 out of 5 zombies will still bash on a wall even though an open doorway is directly a block to the side.

Yes, TFP could just accept that NPCs simply hang in difficult terrain. But last time this topic came up they seemed not sure the current AI was good enough for what they had in mind. As I initially said, this may change once bandits make an appearance and if they work really well (NPCs were already in the game once but they did not meet TFPs quality standards, by the way). But when that happens TFP will already be near the finish line to release the game and they might not want to add another feature but instead declare feature freeze and turn to final bug fixing and balancing.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure that modders will add escort missions even if TFP passes on that.

Advanced , good, special, ... it's a correct word the main problem ?? The all idea is to go basic around the subject, to be a lot easier to convince PIMPs to add that. Who cares if NPCs do a lap dance passing an obstacle ?? do it the simple way possible ... Stuck in ground rocks ?! LOL ... that´s an awful routine. U r trying to discard the idea at all costs. And to that, I can´t argue ! Cheers.

@meganoth honestly you can't convice him. he probably just playing games and know too little about game developing. honestly i want i lot in 7dtd but i know a lot of thing can't works good like good "decay" of corpses instead disappairing

and know too little about game developing ... so u r an expert ??!! congrats ... do the job pls !!! Thx ! Cheers.

 

[meganoth]

Advanced , good, special, ... it's a correct word the main problem ?? The all idea is to go basic around the subject, to be a lot easier to convince PIMPs to add that. Who cares if NPCs do a lap dance passing an obstacle ?? do it the simple way possible ... Stuck in ground rocks ?! LOL ... that´s an awful routine. U r trying to discard the idea at all costs. And to that, I can´t argue ! Cheers.

Well, I don't like my words twisted so that they seem to say something different. "advanced" sounds, well, pretty advanced

I don't have the power to discard any idea. That idea was proposed multiple times already, just like dozens of other common ideas, and the developers definitely know about that idea, probably had that idea years before it was ever posted in the forum. I'm just telling you that it came up in conversations and at least the last times the said something like "there were no plans at the moment" and I told you some of the reasons why.

What I say here has not the slightest effect on anything the devs will do. I'm not a gatekeeper

and know too little about game developing ... so u r an expert ??!! congrats ... do the job pls !!! Thx ! Cheers.

 

[Matt115]

Advanced , good, special, ... it's a correct word the main problem ?? The all idea is to go basic around the subject, to be a lot easier to convince PIMPs to add that. Who cares if NPCs do a lap dance passing an obstacle ?? do it the simple way possible ... Stuck in ground rocks ?! LOL ... that´s an awful routine. U r trying to discard the idea at all costs. And to that, I can´t argue ! Cheers.

and know too little about game developing ... so u r an expert ??!! congrats ... do the job pls !!! Thx ! Cheers.

honestly , if  you want convice someone about something you need give a logical solutionhow to do something. in cod you have to escort hover which ride on fixed path - it can't change  course of ride. but even this create a lot bugs. Even better for acti - cod have static maps.

so in 7dtd can't be make  "routine" because map in generated radomly and players can infuenlce on it. so it will be hell for them.  

"do the job" em XD? you know there is a lot ot types in game studio? programers, guys who make characters models, props etc. sometimes even 1 character model need 2 week to be one. so "do the job" is not so easy. this something like you want from vocantional school teacher to make space rocket.  You know even something diagonal jump was something impossible for long time in games?

Your idea can be implemented but it need changes.  i will give you how could it work in way possible for TFP to considered.

You take quest. 

go to marker - it will make drone respawns ( drones are flying + there is drone model created ). it will create "zone " similiar to treasue hunt hint were is treasure.  you must stay in this zone when drone moves. it moves only if player is inside. zombie is respawning and going to attack you when you get into trader's gate drone will disappairing and you have complited quest? @meganoth do you agrea this idea is more realistic that his idea?

 

[meganoth]

honestly , if  you want convice someone about something you need give a logical solutionhow to do something. in cod you have to escort hover which ride on fixed path - it can't change  course of ride. but even this create a lot bugs. Even better for acti - cod have static maps.

so in 7dtd can't be make  "routine" because map in generated radomly and players can infuenlce on it. so it will be hell for them.  

"do the job" em XD? you know there is a lot ot types in game studio? programers, guys who make characters models, props etc. sometimes even 1 character model need 2 week to be one. so "do the job" is not so easy. this something like you want from vocantional school teacher to make space rocket.  You know even something diagonal jump was something impossible for long time in games?

Your idea can be implemented but it need changes.  i will give you how could it work in way possible for TFP to considered.

You take quest. 

go to marker - it will make drone respawns ( drones are flying + there is drone model created ). it will create "zone " similiar to treasue hunt hint were is treasure.  you must stay in this zone when drone moves. it moves only if player is inside. zombie is respawning and going to attack you when you get into trader's gate drone will disappairing and you have complited quest? @meganoth do you agrea this idea is more realistic that his idea?

I'm not sure. Your idea seems to include that the drone or NPC is the one dictating the path. But in RWG there could be arbitrarily big objects in the way that could prevent the drone/NPC from finding a path.

 

[BFT2020]

Actually meganoth was not arguing against it.

First, he pointed out at the beginning was that TFP are working on introducing bandits prior to going Gold.  A lot of what you are thinking of would be tied into that project as the bandits themselves will require AI to operate well in the environment of 7D2D.  So TFP are already busy on working on an AI for them.

Second, any AI needs to take into account the world that they are in.  They need to react to threats around them and to traverse an environment that can change (if you rescue the AI, do you want them to go the blocked door and just wait there until you clear it or go through the hole you created in the wall to get to them).  A simple magnet pull AI would not suffice.  If there is a deep hole between you and the NPC, the NPC will simply fall into the hole.  If there is a threat nearby (Zs), you don't want the NPC to just stand there and take hits.  You want them to react to the world around them, not just become Simon from Neebs Gaming.  Now, we are not saying that they have to be advanced AI where they need to act like they are human; but nobody wants to escort / rescue a Simon; and we have all seen bad NPC behavior in past games where it frustrated the player (aka Fallout 4 is a great example).

Third, TFP already have a list of things they want to get done before going Gold; and they don't want to drag out the Alpha development even more adding more and more content in the game.  While they will add some things in as they finish up their big ticket items, this might be one of those things that a modder would add later on once TFP have the basic elements added to the game (bandit models, bandit AI, drone AI).

 

[Matt115]

I'm not sure. Your idea seems to include that the drone or NPC is the one dictating the path. But in RWG there could be arbitrarily big objects in the way that could prevent the drone/NPC from finding a path.

yeah that's why drone in theory could be better that npc because flying can let them ignore mines for example . but yeah buidling can be problem and will be a lot of work with this too so it would be forced to fly only in open area. so too much works to be worth enough to be added

 

[MIOLOmole]

I understand, all your attempts to justify that my idea is not easy to implement, what I can't understand is that knowing that none of you are programmers, are trying to justify technical details of that idea. Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only proves that the basics of my idea can also be done ... if ever, just wanted to ... ! Because that addition is too little, for everything that's ever been done. Now, if the motive is unwilling, I have no more arguments. Cheers !

I understand, all your attempts to justify that my idea is not easy to implement, what I can't understand is that knowing that none of you are programmers, are trying to justify technical details of that idea. Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only proves that the basics of my idea can also be done ... if ever, just wanted to ... ! Because that addition is too little, for everything that's ever been done. Now, if the motive is unwilling, I have no more arguments. Cheers !

 

[meganoth]

I understand, all your attempts to justify that my idea is not easy to implement, what I can't understand is that knowing that none of you are programmers, are trying to justify technical details of that idea. Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only proves that the basics of my idea can also be done ... if ever, just wanted to ... ! Because that addition is too little, for everything that's ever been done. Now, if the motive is unwilling, I have no more arguments. Cheers !

I understand, all your attempts to justify that my idea is not easy to implement, what I can't understand is that knowing that none of you are programmers, are trying to justify technical details of that idea. Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only proves that the basics of my idea can also be done ... if ever, just wanted to ... ! Because that addition is too little, for everything that's ever been done. Now, if the motive is unwilling, I have no more arguments. Cheers !

Oh, how come you know? I studied computer science and have been programming for decades, so I have a theoretical understanding of the problems.

Also, this is a discussion forum and people like to discuss, whether they know a lot or just a little about some issue. You really shouldn't take it personal and go with the flow.

 

[MIOLOmole]

Oh, how come you know? I studied computer science and have been programming for decades, so I have a theoretical understanding of the problems.

Also, this is a discussion forum and people like to discuss, whether they know a lot or just a little about some issue. You really shouldn't take it personal and go with the flow.

" have been programming " doesn´t mean u meet the requirements/standards of the gaming industry ... if that was so important, pls point your portfolio, so that we can judge your professional skills. Discuss is what I'm being doing, since my first post. Where did I took it personal ?? I simply don't agree to your justifications. I stick to this : Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only proves that the basics of my idea can also be done ... and that should be the part to discuss. The only person taking it personal is u, since my first post. Cheers !!!

 

[BFT2020]

" have been programming " doesn´t mean u meet the requirements/standards of the gaming industry ... if that was so important, pls point your portfolio, so that we can judge your professional skills. Discuss is what I'm being doing, since my first post. Where did I took it personal ?? I simply don't agree to your justifications. I stick to this : Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only proves that the basics of my idea can also be done ... and that should be the part to discuss. The only person taking it personal is u, since my first post. Cheers !!!

Have you done any programming?  If you have, you would understand that while computer languages change, the basic principles you learn via programming stay the same.  It is all about the process.  Once you strip down the differences of the computer languages, each language has the same thing:  Processes, steps, algorithms.   meganoth has experience in programming so he understands the process and what it would take. 

You do understand that there are other fields of programming, not just the gaming industry?  But to simply imply that the opinions of others doesn't matter because they don't meet your standards of programming is shortsightedness on your part.

meganoth has not been rude to you or been attacking you; he just has been discussing of what you requested, what he knows has been requested in the past, and what TFP are doing today that may affect what you asked for.  However, it seems like you are taking his discussion of this request as personal (as if anyone that doesn't fully agree with you is against you).

 

[Matt115]

" have been programming " doesn´t mean u meet the requirements/standards of the gaming industry ... if that was so important, pls point your portfolio, so that we can judge your professional skills. Discuss is what I'm being doing, since my first post. Where did I took it personal ?? I simply don't agree to your justifications. I stick to this : Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only proves that the basics of my idea can also be done ... and that should be the part to discuss. The only person taking it personal is u, since my first post. Cheers !!!

honestly you know "standards" are  very diffrent for every game? Do you have any studies about programming or skills? you have make a mod. if not - trust what @meganoth say. i spend a lot of time reading. watching interview and honestly - sometime the "simple' thing are hard - like max speed for character ( this was big problem for long time in hl and hl2), a lot of ideas was offten cuted because they weren't  working good enought : cars in stalker, wall climbing in cyberpunk etc. so honestly - if meganoth say something is too complited to be added it mean it is rly too complicated. honestly maybe @faatal or @Laz Man will explain you better why it can't works good or why it will need to much money and time to be added

 

[Laz Man]

Npc rescue missions would certainly be a fun quest/activity.  Perhaps something similar will/can be added once bandits and other human npcs make it into the game.

It would be a shame if all we got quest wise were basic kill x, clear and fetch types.  I encourage you to attend one of the several a20 dev streams when they get started and ask for this feature live...

 

[MIOLOmole]

" meganoth has not been rude to you or been attacking you; " ... when he replied WHO CARES thats RUDE in every forum ! If u guys go along together for some time, are mates, I uderstand your protecting brotherwood system. " and what TFP are doing today that may affect what you asked for. " read my lips IT'S A SIDE MISSION, doesn't have to affect what have been done. STEVE JOBS didn't understood a thing about programming and still was STEVE JOBS. So using your words " who cares " of your school programming achievments !!! Its a matter of LOGIC. I stick to this : Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only PROVES that the basics of my idea can also be done ... and that should be the part to discuss. " However, it seems like you are taking his discussion of this request as personal (as if anyone that doesn't fully agree with you is against you)." ... WHO is anyone ?? Your brotherwood ?? Stick to  my adressed written LOGIC. Nothing else matters. How can I take that personal ? Will that ever change/affect my life or whatsoever ?? I simple don't agree with your justifications. Just that ! Cheers !!!

 

[meganoth]

" meganoth has not been rude to you or been attacking you; " ... when he replied WHO CARES thats RUDE in every forum !

I'm sorry you took it that way, but it is only rude when you say something and I disregard it with "who cares!". It is not rude if I ASK the fundamental question who (of the typical players) would care if some NPC is called mayor and guess that it might not be very many. All that a typical player would probably care for is how much coin he would get for the quest, unless that NPC being "mayor" had some consequence outside the immediate quest. This is directly discussing how a specific feature in the game would be received by players and if it would have the hoped for result.

An idea here would be that it increases reputation with some faction to save a mayor (if reputation ever gets into this game) or that some area is safer for a while if a mayor is saved (if a variable area safety mechanism were added to the game). If this thread didn't devolve into a "he said she said" argument someone possibly would have posted those or similar ideas.

Now english isn't my mother language, I may be wrong about this. If some native english speaker wants to comment, this is what I said:

Spoiler

Rescue missions will get stale like any other mission once you have done a few dozen. Who cares if that NPC is called "mayor"? If the mayor then doesn't feature prominently in a story all it means is that "mayor" means a bit more money. A quest isn't suddenly more fun if you get twice the money out of it.

 

[BFT2020]

Now english isn't my mother language, I may be wrong about this. If some native english speaker wants to comment, this is what I said:

Spoiler

Rescue missions will get stale like any other mission once you have done a few dozen. Who cares if that NPC is called "mayor"? If the mayor then doesn't feature prominently in a story all it means is that "mayor" means a bit more money. A quest isn't suddenly more fun if you get twice the money out of it.

What you said  was fine, it came out the way you intended.

So using your words " who cares " of your school programming achievments !!! Its a matter of LOGIC. I stick to this : Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only PROVES that the basics of my idea can also be done ... and that should be the part to discuss. " However, it seems like you are taking his discussion of this request as personal (as if anyone that doesn't fully agree with you is against you)." ... WHO is anyone ?? Your brotherwood ??

Again, proving my point.  You are attacking others when you dismissed their opinions / comments as based on “school programming achievements.”  You don’t know mine or meganoth’s programming experience, so when we mentioned what would it take and where TFP is in regards to non-zombie AI, you immediately go after us with childish attacks on our credentials.

Anyone is anyone you would use the same tactic against, not a brotherhood or mates - I only know meganoth through the forums and is simply someone I have discusses with and against ideas.  I don’t like it when people use these tactics and willing to speak up about them when it is used on someone.

 

[BFT2020]

Npc rescue missions would certainly be a fun quest/activity.  Perhaps something similar will/can be added once bandits and other human npcs make it into the game.

It would be a shame if all we got quest wise were basic kill x, clear and fetch types.  I encourage you to attend one of the several a20 dev streams when they get started and ask for this feature live...

I don’t mind a rescue mission, I just hope it would be executed correctly by TFP if they were to go this route.  Otherwise I would avoid it like the plague if it goes from a rescue mission to a babysitting mission.

The bandit AI will give us an idea if this can be pulled off correctly.

 

[Matt115]

Npc rescue missions would certainly be a fun quest/activity.  Perhaps something similar will/can be added once bandits and other human npcs make it into the game.

It would be a shame if all we got quest wise were basic kill x, clear and fetch types.  I encourage you to attend one of the several a20 dev streams when they get started and ask for this feature live...

txh @Laz Man for answer. well i know you know something about game developening so you are "good source of intel" in this topic  

 

[Matt115]

I'm sorry you took it that way, but it is only rude when you say something and I disregard it with "who cares!". It is not rude if I ASK the fundamental question who (of the typical players) would care if some NPC is called mayor and guess that it might not be very many. All that a typical player would probably care for is how much coin he would get for the quest, unless that NPC being "mayor" had some consequence outside the immediate quest. This is directly discussing how a specific feature in the game would be received by players and if it would have the hoped for result.

An idea here would be that it increases reputation with some faction to save a mayor (if reputation ever gets into this game) or that some area is safer for a while if a mayor is saved (if a variable area safety mechanism were added to the game). If this thread didn't devolve into a "he said she said" argument someone possibly would have posted those or similar ideas.

Now english isn't my mother language, I may be wrong about this. If some native english speaker wants to comment, this is what I said:

Spoiler

Rescue missions will get stale like any other mission once you have done a few dozen. Who cares if that NPC is called "mayor"? If the mayor then doesn't feature prominently in a story all it means is that "mayor" means a bit more money. A quest isn't suddenly more fun if you get twice the money out of it.

well i have problems even with polish - how? i have some mental issue XD this is annoying as hell - i just forget words or how to write something - like in english you have consider - in poland we have "rozważyć" and sometimes i wrote " rozwarzyć" and sometime correct form "rozważyc" why? idk

btw. we have "random quests" now - so names are pointless - maybe only diffrent models have sense- like sometimes this is some doc sometimes a normal civilian sometimes soldier.  

we don't know anything about have factions will work - if there will be "story mode" or story will be working in  mmo style etc. PVP make thing harder. so how TFP will do this? i think single story mode is easier that make pvp with story. so for now "names and models" only can  have influence on reward. for now ofc

 

[MIOLOmole]

" you immediately go after us with childish attacks on our credentials... " Why do you need so much credit for your programming skills? Did I ask for this information? Who are you in 7D2D programming? Why are you being the negativity advocate? You're being pretentious, vain and you weren't nominated to speak on behalf of the TFP. It's your attacks that are childish !!! Your opinion only counts whether you like my idea or not. If you like it, add contributions. Otherwise, just say no. Do you happen to know who you're talking to? Do you know what I do in life? Remit yourself to your insignificance. Who are you to say what can and cannot be done in the game? Everything you say is not validated by the TFP. That's why you're on my level in this forum. School programming knowledge does not classify you as apt. You are rude and stubborn. Cheers !!!

 

[MIOLOmole]

read my lips IT'S A SIDE MISSION, doesn't have to affect what have been done. Its a matter of LOGIC. I stick to this : Everything that has already been done in 7D2D only PROVES that the basics of my idea can also be done ... and that should be the part to discuss. Cheers !!!