PC A20 Developer Diary Discussions

Burrfly said:
@faatal why aren't there anymore wandering hordes? That really really made the game a lot of fun. I remember in one of my first playthroughs and it was night and I got outside my base and a RUNNING horde of zombies came towards me and I was scared as heck but it was so cool to also encounter wandering hordes it made it also a challenge.
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You are probably seeing wandering hordes and not recognizing them. Here's a few examples of things that are wandering hordes:

  • Dog horde, sometimes with zombie bears;
  • Wolf horde;
  • Vultures flying in the forest;
  • Zombies bashing stuff.
The last one is a pretty good indicator. Biome zombies rarely bash stuff because they are not trying to get to some place. Unless they see you, of course. If there are zombies bashing something then it is most likely a wandering horde going from point A to point B, bashing whatever is in their way.

On the first few days you'll usually get the animal hordes. Which, honestly, kind of sucks because the animal hordes are much more dangerous. I've died to wolf and dog hordes, but never to a zombie one. Vultures hordes are usually hard to detect because they leave you alone and fly so high they'll often go outside rendering range, but if you happen to be hurt while a vulture horde is around then you are in for some pain.

Sometimes you'll also get some zombies loudly walking nearby. I don't know why they sound so loud, but they do so to me. It's often a zombie from a wandering horde that has finished it's wandering and is now walking randomly. In these cases you can press F1 to open up the console and you'll see messages about zombies not longer being controlled by the wandering horde, and the wandering horde spawning further up.

Matt115 said:
There is any planes of something like alarm to lure zombie hordes? Because it could be rly fun if  Speaker could respawn zombie hordes nearby 
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Grenades, molotovs, timed charges, dynamite are all supposedly throwable decoys. They do not have distraction passive effects, though, so I don't think they are working like decoys.

Rocks (stone) and snowballs do work as decoys, though you have to throw so they hit the ground close to the zombies, then skip further away attracting them.  Otherwise... just make noise then stealthily move away.

 
Matt115 said:
If they choose to be PVE that's mean on coop/single balance will be good but PVP will be unbalance
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There is no IF. They have stated repeatedly and for a long time that the game is built around PVE and that maybe after it is finished they will give PVP some attention.

 
dcsobral said:
You are probably seeing wandering hordes and not recognizing them. Here's a few examples of things that are wandering hordes:

  • Dog horde, sometimes with zombie bears;
  • Wolf horde;
  • Vultures flying in the forest;
  • Zombies bashing stuff.
The last one is a pretty good indicator. Biome zombies rarely bash stuff because they are not trying to get to some place. Unless they see you, of course. If there are zombies bashing something then it is most likely a wandering horde going from point A to point B, bashing whatever is in their way.

On the first few days you'll usually get the animal hordes. Which, honestly, kind of sucks because the animal hordes are much more dangerous. I've died to wolf and dog hordes, but never to a zombie one. Vultures hordes are usually hard to detect because they leave you alone and fly so high they'll often go outside rendering range, but if you happen to be hurt while a vulture horde is around then you are in for some pain.

Sometimes you'll also get some zombies loudly walking nearby. I don't know why they sound so loud, but they do so to me. It's often a zombie from a wandering horde that has finished it's wandering and is now walking randomly. In these cases you can press F1 to open up the console and you'll see messages about zombies not longer being controlled by the wandering horde, and the wandering horde spawning further up.

Grenades, molotovs, timed charges, dynamite are all supposedly throwable decoys. They do not have distraction passive effects, though, so I don't think they are working like decoys.

Rocks (stone) and snowballs do work as decoys, though you have to throw so they hit the ground close to the zombies, then skip further away attracting them.  Otherwise... just make noise then stealthily move away.
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I mean something that works similiar to boomer bile from l4d

 
Matt115 said:
There is any planes of something like alarm to lure zombie hordes? Because it could be rly fun if  Speaker could respawn zombie hordes nearby 
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Like in the Darkness Falls mod, some of the vehicles have alarms on them, now I loot the vehicles last.

 
BIOHAZARD57 said:
Are there any plans to make the zombies more satisfying to shoot/damage? For example: a bullet hole or stab wound being left on the zombies. Or maybe at least increase the amount of blood that come from the zombies.
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Voxel based zombies?

 
BIOHAZARD57 said:
Are there any plans to make the zombies more satisfying to shoot/damage? For example: a bullet hole or stab wound being left on the zombies. Or maybe at least increase the amount of blood that come from the zombies.
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Performance already drops to a near slide show on horde nights even on high end computers, imagine trying to add so much extra detail when your junk turrets or m60 opened fire into the horde

Personally, my biggest thing I would like to get some love graphics wise, would be a TLC pass for the trees and grass and dirt etc. Not sure if the devs have anything planned in that direction atm, or if that's just a 7 Days 2 Die type update

My modded skyrim looks about like this and actually runs better than 7 days most of the time (besides Riften obviously). Obviously not to the level shown in Skyrim, but  just some general updating of the fauna to get more variance and stuff in it would be pretty nice.

maxresdefault.jpg


 
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meganoth said:
Why do you always pick Fortitude as second comparison and act as if that wasn't a combat heavy OP class just like strength? Compare INT to agility or perception and you would actually compare attributes with a smaller focus on combat. Actually INT is the attribute with the highest utility focus and therefore the lowest combat focus. So it is to be expected that using only INT weapons creates the lowest damage output.
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They probably pick it because FORT has the least directly offensive perks of any stat, tied with INT, so it would make sense to compare them in general. The issue there is that ARs and knuckles are currently overtuned and need a nerf.

AGI and PER are both at least as combat focused as STR, AGI doesn’t even have a gathering perk, so comparing INT to them would be more unfair to INT.

meganoth said:
Make a different test:

Just take a shotgun with you and the ammo you got out of a previous quest or bought at the trader to the POI and use all the shotgun ammo you have and find in the factory to shoot at zombies groups and only use the baton for single zombies.  Keep 9mm and 7.62 ammo you find for horde night.

I'm sure you will get out with much much less turret ammo expended and will be through much faster. You also found the best use for the shotgun ammo.
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I think it’s a good shift for INT players to need more preparation to clear out POIs than other stats. But from what i’ve seen, most trader quests require you to go through POIs so this winds up being a bit paradoxical: you need ammo to clear POIs, but you need to complete quests for the ammo, but you need to clear POIs to complete quests. 

It also just seems a little much that 3 weapons and 10 skill points are less effective than 1 weapon and 5 skill points, even taking the advantages of the turrets and the reduced combat efficiency of the INT tree into account.

At a certain point you have to ask “are the perked turrets and the unperked shotgun meaningfully more effective than just the unperked shotgun?”

meganoth said:
Definitely the trader is OP for experienced players. Finding the right stuff is easy for experienced players. BUT vanilla is for the inexperienced player who will NOT get workstations and all the recipes ready by day 7-10. If you want a balanced game as an experienced player you have to turn down loot frequency to compensate for all the knowledge how to get at stuff.

You pointed me to one omission in the game though: The trader never offers turret ammo as quest reward and (I may be wrong here) doesn't sell it, and you don't find it anywhere. I think that should be changed as it isn't logical that the INT player should need to be toiling in the mines more often than a miner himself.
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The trader update in A20 should bring things back in line. That, combined with the smoother gear progression, should help make sure crafting is made firmly relevant to all levels of play which is why i’m very excited for it.

turret ammo from the traders will also make early-game INT more viable for players who might not know to maximize use of them.

 
ShellHead said:
They probably pick it because FORT has the least directly offensive perks of any stat, tied with INT, so it would make sense to compare them in general. The issue there is that ARs and knuckles are currently overtuned and need a nerf.

AGI and PER are both at least as combat focused as STR, AGI doesn’t even have a gathering perk, so comparing INT to them would be more unfair to INT.
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I consider FORT and STR the combat heavy attributes because they clearly have the weapons advantage over all other attributes. For example: Except for the two highest difficulties a normal player could get away with using the tier1 gun of FORT even in endgame and because of the big magazine the m60 is the ultimate oh @%$# weapon (IMHO), even better than the shotgun.

Agi in comparison needs a lot more perk points to be effective as their damage potential starts from a lower level. I don't see that necessarily as an advantage that you need a lot more levels to get in range of FORT or STR. The strength of AGI is a completely separate "game mode" where you can relatively safely do quests in the night provided you invested your points in it. In typical fantasy RPG parlance you would call that attribute the rogue assassin class.

PER has a strong tier3 weapon, but all lower tiers are hampered by small magazines, especially the tier 1 weapon. There is almost no application for the long range the guns are capable of and melee is one of the most difficult weapons to handle effectively. PER can shine on horde night, but the rest of the week I consider its utility perks more important that the combat perks. The RPG equivalent would be the thief half of the rogue class.

I think it’s a good shift for INT players to need more preparation to clear out POIs than other stats. But from what i’ve seen, most trader quests require you to go through POIs so this winds up being a bit paradoxical: you need ammo to clear POIs, but you need to complete quests for the ammo, but you need to clear POIs to complete quests. 

It also just seems a little much that 3 weapons and 10 skill points are less effective than 1 weapon and 5 skill points, even taking the advantages of the turrets and the reduced combat efficiency of the INT tree into account.

At a certain point you have to ask “are the perked turrets and the unperked shotgun meaningfully more effective than just the unperked shotgun?”
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Well, just ask that question now. At the current time I would say definitely yes for me. Even with a shotgun I miss sometimes or forget to reload or the weapon even breaks at the wrong time (yes, I'm sloppy there).  Also while running around with double barrel or even pump shotgun you need to reload a lot more often than you would like. The turrets are the only companion in single player to watch my back. And set up behind you they even literally watch your back. The effectiveness of the baton in fights with multiple enemies is very low, no question about that, but the turret(s) really shine in fights against multiple opponents. 

The trader update in A20 should bring things back in line. That, combined with the smoother gear progression, should help make sure crafting is made firmly relevant to all levels of play which is why i’m very excited for it.

turret ammo from the traders will also make early-game INT more viable for players who might not know to maximize use of them.
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Yes and yes. In theory the game was designed with a balance so that the more effective ammo is harder to get and needs more effort to get enough of it. But effectively ammo of all sizes was too plentiful and easy to get in pretty much every alpha I played. But there is hope for much more balanced setup in A20. If the first people are complaining they don't find enough ammo we might have reached a good balance.

DaVegaNL said:
What's up guys? This game still being developed? Been a while since I last checked.

I saw a sneak peak video was posted in November last year. Please tell me the game isn't abandoned.
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It isn't abandoned, but was sold to the new Telltale for further develpment. A big patch is being developed right now. 😁

 
n2n1 said:
Good job.... but you guys seem to have completely lost the sense of reality... (yes, of course it is appropriate in your game).

But it doesn't scare or give an atmosphere. It's just cuuul. Add more fire - to make it more absurd. Maybe then it will work...

I liked the one that was earlier - it had crooked fingers, his skin was burned and it looked like a... victim...

I just think that - despite the fact that it "luuuks cuuul" -  it's already quite bored... now there are many games with similar art - you have lost your charm.
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I totally agree. That looks nothing like any burning zombie I have ever seen.

 
Adam the Waster said:
*sniffs*

you smell bacon?
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well if he had less teeth and black he would looking better xd but still he looks good

n2n1 said:
Good job.... but you guys seem to have completely lost the sense of reality... (yes, of course it is appropriate in your game).

But it doesn't scare or give an atmosphere. It's just cuuul. Add more fire - to make it more absurd. Maybe then it will work...

I liked the one that was earlier - it had crooked fingers, his skin was burned and it looked like a... victim...

I just think that - despite the fact that it "luuuks cuuul" -  it's already quite bored... now there are many games with similar art - you have lost your charm.
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dcsobral said:
I totally agree. That looks nothing like any burning zombie I have ever seen.
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Well in cod cold war and outbreake there are burned zombies and looks rly more better xd i have feeling that they after 19 feeling  decide to throw away reality and make it as comedy xd junk guns and normal guns looks like post apo movies from 80-90  , junk drones  this zombie model, geez , fat coop looks like "modern" model of boomer from l4d2 but this zombie looks like some undead from oblivion or skyrim xd 

 
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