Matt115
New member
well this same problem with cod XD 5 sec to kill orda gg. So 7dtd need some "impromvents" with water or add drowned zombies
PC A20 Developer Diary Discussions
- Thread starter Roland
- Start date
Or in other words, base building was trivial then. So you could build anything and it would work if it just had enough HP to occupy the zombies long enough or left the zombies running around without attack vector (stilt bases and underground bases were practically out of reach of zombies).
Which doesn't work because players would simply "remove" the trail by using a drawbridge or wood frames that they remove after entering the base. The trail was never described as a blood moon feature to my knowledge, it was always about some zombies following you when you were moving about.
That is the old pre-A17 method. As I said above this AI can be trivially gamed.
dcsobral
New member
If pathing was decent pre-A17, I'd agree. Pathing was bad, and zombies went more or less in a direct line (unless running in circles). Pathing to a player that can be seen or to a location a sound is coming from but only through blocks that are within LoS of the zombie is not something that was ever done.
Regardless, this is a strawman argument. The AI was no more trivially gamed then than it is now, minus a few exploits that have been removed since. Furthermore, it doesn't matter how many exploit bases exist: if a single one exist within common knowledge, then any player who desires an exploit base will make one. The argument above boils down to "many exploit bases existed before, and now there's less exploit bases", to which I reply: who cares?
What I do care about is that there were many more ways of making non-exploit bases before than now, but I am not advocating going back to pre-A17 AI. Go back and read again without the "he wants A16 AI" filter on your monitor. The current AI leads to a single optimal approach, and one which becomes quite boring since 7d2d isn't going the way of Night of the Dead with multiple traps with which to design a killing maze.
Side note about the trail thing: yeah, players could remove the path if it was ever implemented for horde night, just like players could remove the path in pre-A17 AI and like players can remove the path on current AI. Absence of a path is a problem common to all pathing approaches.
paulritik_09
New member
I think there will be some hints. It seems like there is normally a dot-4, so we should get 19.4 next. Then there will be some call for streamers to show off the 20 so they can submit their applications. Then after that we will eventually get 20-pre-experimental. They will release approximately one new build per week (on average).And after a couple of months of that, then we get A20.
Vedui
Active member
I admit, I enjoy finding those edge cases where the AI breaks down and it becomes trivial.
That said, what I would like to see is AI being different for POI Sleepers VS Blood Moon Horde zombies.
Having a fancy "I can run the gauntlet in my POI" is cool, avoids swisscheese much more than what we had in the past. However, for a blood moon horde, a simplistic "We'll rush the player and destroy everything between us and them if we get stuck" would work a lot better (ie, A16 style) and avoid the suspension of belief when they go around the base, then up, then down, through a weak block and then circles around to the now open path to get to the player.
In my view, Alpha 16 was the last version where base builds were really fun and challenging. Yes it had the problem with above/below, but if you avoided that particular cheese, you suddenly had a much more interesting base design that looked like a real base, as opposed to a simple A17+ "platform path the zombie falls off on their own" or any other number of ways to treat them like lemmings
Practically this is an impossible wish at the current time because line of sight is an expensive operation to calculate, too much to consider for release of 7D2D
Theoretically speaking though that would be a lot more realistical. Whether it would be more fun, who knows.
I'm not necessarily talking about exploit bases even though stilts were a major problem. My problem with pre-A17 AI was that you could simply build anything and the zombies would not really react to it but just to you. This made almost everything possible but it also REMOVED the need to build anything else but simple blocks. Why bother with some path for the zombies when they ignore it anyway? Why add trap doors when you would have to surround your base completely with trap doors for them to work? Simply said before A17 I didn't bother with doing anything special because special was ignored anyway. THAT is my problem with pre-A17 AI
Since A17 the zombies can be "exploited" BUT now the exploits are similar to the "exploits" in other tower-defense games. Or said simply since A17 7D2D had a real tower-defense subgame making the exploits not exploits but a game feature.
I never said you wanted to go back to it. But you implicitly compared the current AI to pre-A17 "This sophisticated path finding being used has reduced the diversity of effective bases a lot, ", i.e. you referenced how the previous AI was better in that regard, allowed more diversity, so it is only fair that I can compare with that as well. And denounce it as more arbitrary and very very low on tower defense mechanics
Well, you are correct that it would have made tower defense paths possible AND whatever AI goes into effect once the path is away, so I change my mind on this, it would have been a nice feature for horde night.
Adam the Waster
Well-known member
make the zombies able to jump 30 feet and then see how long people last
jk
but maybe some other zombies could jump higher to get people. like feral zombies, spiders, etc
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make the zombies able to jump 30 feet and then see how long people last
jk
but maybe some other zombies could jump higher to get people. like feral zombies, spiders, etc
I see spiders jump quite far and high already.
Adam the Waster
Well-known member
they can reach you if your on the ground, not high up, they don't Hop on your roof and try to eat you. the highest iv seen them jump is about 6 blocks. and it had to in a angle. not right up on the wall like other zombies
at least for me they don't for me
Roland
Moderator
One of the most enjoyable aspects of the A17 streamer weekend was watching all of the oh @%$# moments when spiders unexpectedly jumped on and over everyone's walls. I think the jump distance was toned down a bit from the initial A17 settings. Come to think of it....everything was toned down from A17 settings...
Roland
Moderator
We are already on 19.4 and 19.5 is in experimental so 19.5 going stable will be next. At some point that will be followed by weekly developer streams showing off the new features for A20. The streamer weekend will then happen to lead into the general Monday release of A20 experimental.
Adam the Waster
Well-known member
the things im looking for. Aside from aside from playing 7DTD again (hope my PC does not go boom!)
is
new zombie models (brunt zombie mostly)
pipe weapons
new building blocks
and so many other things
THINGS i want to see!
new solder and wight model
new armors (i still don't know if its coming or not)
things I'm Kind of scared of!
- Simplified upgrade path: Frame/Particle Board -> Wood -> Stone -> Concrete -> Steel. I hope they didn't FULLY kill my scrap metal build!
enragedcamel
New member
Any news on A20 release date? Or are we still doing the "when it is ready" song and dance?
Adam the Waster
Well-known member
*Climbs the Himalayas with a Large Speaker and battery bank, gets to the top and throw all those flags away, Plugs in Speaker, sets up microphone then i Say*Any news on A20 release date? Or are we still doing the "when it is ready" song and dance?
WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNN ITTTTTTTTTTTSSSSSSSS DONE!
*then adam was killed by Zombie vultures*
*then adam was killed by Zombie vultures*
wicketness
New member
IF they say SOON.
it means sometimes between now and the end of time.
it means sometimes between now and the end of time.
Game dev takes time 
for real though, 7D2D is a incredibly ambitious project and has a ****-ton of moving parts, that’s gonna take a long time, especially with this having been TFP’s inaugural game.
this is exactly the reason i still want TFP to write a book about developing the game, there isn’t a dev out there that wouldn’t gain a lot from reading it.
for real though, 7D2D is a incredibly ambitious project and has a ****-ton of moving parts, that’s gonna take a long time, especially with this having been TFP’s inaugural game.
this is exactly the reason i still want TFP to write a book about developing the game, there isn’t a dev out there that wouldn’t gain a lot from reading it.
Roland
Moderator
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Jost Amman
Well-known member
So, you didn't get ANY benefit from A19.5? :suspicious:MestreJoe said:
Lemmers
New member
It would certainly make the zombies feel more natural if you snuck into an area and saw a few wandering around, doing their normal zombie routine instead of literally "sleeping" until the player triggers them into rage mode. It's the difference between a world feeling alive, and feeling like you're just playing through scripted events.bdubyah said: