PC Should repair be changed to fix the game economy?

[Liesel Weppen]

but, rather, the design choices Microsoft makes now which clearly promotes open ended game play.

No they don't, they even can't, as the game has an official end. You CAN play open end, but that is not necessary.

Even Civilization has different "ends" and i know tons of people that especially race for that ends and probably wouldn't even play the game if it had no "ends". That doesn't mean you can't play it open ended. But some people need a given goal they have to reach. And it was added later to minecraft, too, to adress those people.

 

[Kalen]

No they don't, they even can't, as the game has an official end. You CAN play open end, but that is not necessary.

Heh, ok agree to disagree.   To me it is clearly meant to be an open ended game.   Sure there is an "end condition" that even prompts credits.... but then the game just continues.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Heh, ok agree to disagree. 

Ok.

BTT: Even if someone plays for an official end, he could use a once found item until he reaches the end, no matter WHEN he found it.

ESPECIALLY if someone tends to play open end, it becomes boring, because you can use that item forever.

 

[pregnable]

No

 

[Scyris]

No

I agree with him here, it doesn't need to be changed, TFP is already taking away a ton of playstyle choices as it is, lets not give them more idea's of stuff they can take away.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

TFP is already taking away a ton of playstyle choices as it is,

Huh? They already took away repair mechanics, because in earlier Alphas you couldn't repair endless.

lets not give them more idea's of stuff they can take away.

The suggested changes don't remove any playstyle choices, but add new ones. The complaints usually end up with, "but that doesn't fit to MY playstyle, so don't do it".

But if i take a look at the poll results, obviously most people are care bears.

 

[RestInPieces]

Might as well remove repairing from the game completely given its current state - nothing would change, except not having to repeat a tedious series of clicks, that involves zero decision making or engagement, except maybe during the earliest stages of your playthrough.

 

[Rince]

Might as well remove repairing from the game completely given its current state - nothing would change, except not having to repeat a tedious series of clicks, that involves zero decision making or engagement, except maybe during the earliest stages of your playthrough.

Well, you must make or find the repair kits, remember to carry them around, and remember to fix regularly your gear. I think that's fine.

 

[Kalen]

Well, you must make or find the repair kits, remember to carry them around, and remember to fix regularly your gear. I think that's fine.

If repair kits were actually rare then there would be at least some decisions to be made.... but they're not.   So there really is no reason not to repair anything that you use whenever it breaks.   RIP is 100% correct.

series of clicks, that involves zero decision making or engagement

 

[Liesel Weppen]

If repair kits were actually rare then there would be at least some decisions to be made....

They are not just rare to loot, you can also craft them for basically nothing. Except maybe from early early game we never had a shortage of repair kits. We usually even do repair found items before selling them to the trader. So after looting a big POI there are easily spent 30 repair kits onto items we want to sell. We have enough of them, there is not a single thought spent on if we can afford to repair something.

 

[Rince]

If repair kits were actually rare then there would be at least some decisions to be made.... but they're not.   So there really is no reason not to repair anything that you use whenever it breaks.   RIP is 100% correct.

But at most is a decision about repairing it or not. If you have the materials you do, if not you don't. And that's all of it.

Now, if you want more busywork, sure, you can make them craftable with their corresponding parts.

And making them only repaireable in an special workstation.

Or you can make that the item degrade a lvl each repair.

The thing is if brings something fun to the game.

And that's quite subjetive. For me, doesn't. It hinders gameplay.

Of course, for you it's fun gameplay.

Quite a dilemma, isn't? But anyways useless, because The Pimps does what the Pimps wants.

 

[Kalen]

But at most is a decision about repairing it or not. If you have the materials you do, if not you don't. And that's all of it.

Thats my point....except for very early game you always have repair kits available.  Very early game you seldom have items that even need a repair kit anyway.

Now, if you want more busywork, sure, you can make them craftable with their corresponding parts.

Heh, I dont want busywork at all.... I want the systems in the game to either have interesting mechanics or meaningful choices... the current repair system has neither.  

There are many ways you could add meaningful choices to repairing.   For example:

• You could make repair kits far more scarce making you choose what is worth repairing with your limited resources
  
• You could add item degradation making you have to choose when its worthwhile to use an item
  
• You could make repairs take far longer than they currently do making you better plan out when you might have to repair and/or have a backup item available
  

These are just some examples.

Its not really a question of whats fun or not.... I mean its fun to have an M60 with unlimited ammo and mow down hordes of zombies.... it's about what makes compelling game play.   Clicking a repair button every now and then without even having to think about it isn't compelling to me.

 

[RipClaw]

Its not really a question of whats fun or not.... I mean its fun to have an M60 with unlimited ammo and mow down hordes of zombies.... it's about what makes compelling game play.   Clicking a repair button every now and then without even having to think about it isn't compelling to me.

In the late game you have both. Unlimited ammo and unlimited repair kits. But apparently nobody has a problem with unlimited ammunition.
 

 

[Rince]

Thats my point....except for very early game you always have repair kits available.  Very early game you seldom have items that even need a repair kit anyway.

Heh, I dont want busywork at all.... I want the systems in the game to either have interesting mechanics or meaningful choices... the current repair system has neither.  

There are many ways you could add meaningful choices to repairing.   For example:

• You could make repair kits far more scarce making you choose what is worth repairing with your limited resources
  
• You could add item degradation making you have to choose when its worthwhile to use an item
  
• You could make repairs take far longer than they currently do making you better plan out when you might have to repair and/or have a backup item available
  

These are just some examples.

Its not really a question of whats fun or not.... I mean its fun to have an M60 with unlimited ammo and mow down hordes of zombies.... it's about what makes compelling game play.   Clicking a repair button every now and then without even having to think about it isn't compelling to me.

Well, if you want that just remove repairing, then you have a meaningful choice everytime you use anything, because the clock is always tickling and every use your piece of gear is a step closer to be gone.

Of course, I would hate it.

Anyways, we're again at the same point, isn't? What's compelling gameplay for you is boring busywork/grind for me.

By the way, which is your idea for making repair kits more scarse? Which should be the new recipe?

 

[Kalen]

In the late game you have both. Unlimited ammo and unlimited repair kits. But apparently nobody has a problem with unlimited ammunition.

Why do you think that?   Plenty of people have a problem with unlimited ammo.... it's just not the topic of this conversation.

Well, if you want that just remove repairing

When RIP suggested removing repairing, I believe he also meant removing durability as well.   If items last forever by just clicking repair every now and then, you might as well just make them last forever and get rid of repair entirely.

By the way, which is your idea for making repair kits more scarse? Which should be the new recipe?

No idea... hadn't given it much thought.   I'd prefer item degradation, myself. 

 

[Adam the Waster]

i just think that anything that uses Parts should be repaired with Parts. Say you're Level 6 Auto shotgun is REALLY broken i mean down to Zero, then you would need 6 parts to repair it (the Lower the level, the less parts)

Repair kits can be used to make a Short term Repair, if you're on the go and you need to do i small quick fix you uses a Repair kit, However you they have a limit to how many you can uses before you NEED Parts to repair it (3 times) Repair kits can still be used to Repair Cars and armor but again its short term. 

Say you're Iron Pick broke and you need a Repair, you can uses a Repair kit to do a Quick small repair, but if you want to max out the repair you need Iron.

Steel tools would need Steel tool parts
Shotguns would need shotgun parts

Bows would need Bow/crossbow parts
ETC

 

[Rince]

Why do you think that?   Plenty of people have a problem with unlimited ammo.... it's just not the topic of this conversation.

When RIP suggested removing repairing, I believe he also meant removing durability as well.   If items last forever by just clicking repair every now and then, you might as well just make them last forever and get rid of repair entirely.

No idea... hadn't given it much thought.   I'd prefer item degradation, myself. 

Well, I was just saying because you wanted more meaningful choices, not regarding what RIP said. And besides of the fun factor, that's a very meaningful choice.

The thing with item degradation is that only would work if we can craft T6 again. With random results, like the items from looting.

 

[RipClaw]

Why do you think that? 

Because I've never seen a thread or a posting where someone complains that you find too much ammo or it is too cheap to craft.
Quite the opposite. They complain that you find not enough ammo or that you use more ammo to clear a T5 than you find etc.

But now back to the repair kits.

I took a look at the loot table. The largest quantities of repair kits can be found in car parts crates. But according to the loot table it is not the most common item in these boxes. The probability is high that you will find tools, parts and schematics rather than repair kits. A player may be very lucky but usually you will have to craft them yourself.

With the vehicle damage system the Fun Pimps want to move away from fixing everything with repair kits. Then you will need different parts for certain damages. Just like critical injuries need different treatments. Then you can make a meaningful decision whether to take the long way across the road or drive cross-country.
 

 

[Kalen]

I took a look at the loot table. The largest quantities of repair kits can be found in car parts crates. But according to the loot table it is not the most common item in these boxes. The probability is high that you will find tools, parts and schematics rather than repair kits. A player may be very lucky but usually you will have to craft them yourself.

I can only tell you from experience that I always end up with stacks of repair kits... more than I'd ever need.   I'd be curious to hear from anyone, that plays with default settings, that has a problem keeping items repaired.

Because I've never seen a thread or a posting where someone complains that you find too much ammo or it is too cheap to craft.

I have.... but by all means, start a thread on it.  I'd agree with you.

 

[Boidster]

I took a look at the loot table. The largest quantities of repair kits can be found in car parts crates. But according to the loot table it is not the most common item in these boxes. The probability is high that you will find tools, parts and schematics rather than repair kits. A player may be very lucky but usually you will have to craft them yourself.

If my math is correct, here's the chance of getting at least one Repair Kit from the containers which have them. This takes into account the min/max count of items you can get from a container, i.e. the number of RNG "rolls" that are taken when opening the container. It does not take into account the # of Repair Kits you will get if RNG hits on "Repair Kit" as a reward.

For example, the cntLootCrateCarParts will return from 10-25 Repair Kits if RNG lands on "Repair Kit" in its loot table.

We usually end up with a decent stockpile of Repair Kits after a couple/few in-game weeks.


Container


Probability


cntLootCrateCarParts


23.7%


cntLootCrateShotgunMessiah


16.0%


cntRollingToolBoxClosed


14.3%


cntStoreShelfSingleBottomHardware01


14.3%


cntToolBoxClosed


14.3%


cntGarageStorage


5.1%


cntLootCrateMoPowerElectronics


3.2%


cntLootCrateWorkingStiffs


3.2%


cntCollapsedWorkbench


1.6%


cntBusSchool


1.5%


cntCar03SedanDamage0Master


1.5%


cntCar03SedanDamage1Master


1.5%