PC Structural integrity....

Weight already doesn't matter and in fact never mattered at all as all it cares about is the total number of blocks being supported. Which each block material type has different limits on how many it can support. However said material support limits are meaningless if the block doesn't have a unbroken stack of blocks below it all the way to bedrock and also note that the materials used in said stack are meaningless. In other words when making a upside down L only the top vertical block matters for determining how long the horizontal line of blocks can be.
Wait. Are you saying you can put the same amount of steel blocks or wood blocks on a supporting wood block ?

If yes, I'll test that and if I find out it isn't true I'll send you a bill for my wasted time. 😉

If no, how is that not the result of weight ?

 
Wait. Are you saying you can put the same amount of steel blocks or wood blocks on a supporting wood block ?

If yes, I'll test that and if I find out it isn't true I'll send you a bill for my wasted time. 😉

If no, how is that not the result of weight ?
Yep that is exactly what I'm saying.

 
Yep that is exactly what I'm saying.
That is incorrect... mass of the block absolutely matters.   For example, a wood frame holds 40.  So you can attach 2 steel blocks.  Try to add a 3rd and it collapses.   However, you can add a bunch of wooden frames without a problem.

 
I read all that, in a summary for the experience; it seems there's at least three different versions of SI going on.. or people just experience that same game wildly different. My money's on the latter.

@Pichii, regarding your old faithful base; I'm pretty sure some of the numbers for weight and 'glue' have been changing lately (in A19 patches if I'm not mistaken, but could've been A18 already), although I think most of them went towards "more sturdy", but it might be that I missed some change. The only downgrade I've noticed was that Rebar was given "stone" values, which makes sense since it'll be stone soon after. But check them out, might explain something.

 
@Danidas: You should find my bill in your email 😉:

View attachment 16113

Both sides extend to maximum length before collapse: 2 steel or 8 wood blocks
Okay back again to my suggestion wouldnt it be better if the system would ditch the weight system and instead go for a maximum amount of blocks per support?

That would make sure you dont have to worry about unknown variables and such.

 
Okay back again to my suggestion wouldnt it be better if the system would ditch the weight system and instead go for a maximum amount of blocks per support?

That would make sure you dont have to worry about unknown variables and such.
Disagree.... using a system of maximum blocks would make a steel block no different than a wood frame for the purposes of SI and that doesn't make any sense.

 
Disagree.... using a system of maximum blocks would make a steel block no different than a wood frame for the purposes of SI and that doesn't make any sense.
Nonono, you misunderstood me.

I only critize the weight system because it can be chaothic from time to time.

What i meant is a maximum block support system where each of your base support blocks could only handle a select amount of blocks going horizontally.

  1. Wood can hold 4
  2. Stone can hold 5
  3. Concrete can hold 6
  4. Steel can hold 7
Everything over the limit causes a collapse, but not because weights but because on number of blocks. It makes SI calculation much easier althought it practically makes the mechanics "dumber".

 
Nonono, you misunderstood me.

I only critize the weight system because it can be chaothic from time to time.

What i meant is a maximum block support system where each of your base support blocks could only handle a select amount of blocks going horizontally.

  1. Wood can hold 4
  2. Stone can hold 5
  3. Concrete can hold 6
  4. Steel can hold 7
Everything over the limit causes a collapse, but not because weights but because on number of blocks. It makes SI calculation much easier althought it practically makes the mechanics "dumber".
I understood you.... but what youre saying is that wood, for example, could hold only 4 blocks, whether those blocks are steel blocks or wood frames.   I find that too simple a system.   Building should be more complicated than just counting blocks, IMO.

 
Okay back again to my suggestion wouldnt it be better if the system would ditch the weight system and instead go for a maximum amount of blocks per support?

That would make sure you dont have to worry about unknown variables and such.
I agree that the information how much something can hold is slightly hidden. A block in my inventory tells me immediately what it can hold and its weight, but a block in the world does not.

Such an information deficit happens when you want to attach blocks to an existing poi and it happens when you upgrade. On the other hand the game gives you the means to find out. For example: If you want to find out how much weight some block can hold, just add wood frames until they collapse. Multiply the max number of wood frames it held by 5 (the weight of a wood frame) and you have the weight it can hold.

 
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I agree that the information how much something can hold is slightly hidden. A block in my inventory tells me immediately what it can hold and its weight, but a block in the world does not.

Such an information deficit happens when you want to attach blocks to an existing poi and it happens when you upgrade. On the other hand the game gives you the means to find out. For example: If you want to find out how much weight some block can hold, just add wood frames until they collapse. Multiply the max number of wood frames it held by 5 (the weight of a wood frame) and you have the weight it can hold.
Could also damage it with a stone axe and then try to repair it to find what resource it requires. Iirc all non-trap wood blocks have the same max "mass" allowed, Iron blocks have their own, the clay+stone blocks (cobble flag and brick) have the same as each other, as do the different cement blocks when dry (possibly when wet too). Could be wrong though and terrain had its own individual values from what I recall.

 
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I know this might be a weird suggestion, but instead of destroying an over capacity block could the game just reduce it's max health by an amount (and with a visual cue)? So that way a builder might be able to tell where the failure might occur, and then take steps to prevent it instead of the 'I need pen & paper, and a calculator' or 'well... I'll build until it collapses, reclaim from the debris, and redo until it works'.

 
I agree that the information how much something can hold is slightly hidden. A block in my inventory tells me immediately what it can hold and its weight, but a block in the world does not.

Such an information deficit happens when you want to attach blocks to an existing poi and it happens when you upgrade. On the other hand the game gives you the means to find out. For example: If you want to find out how much weight some block can hold, just add wood frames until they collapse. Multiply the max number of wood frames it held by 5 (the weight of a wood frame) and you have the weight it can hold.
True thought i believe this would be better to be baked into some function like somekind of "look" action binded to "R" on upgrading tools. This way you could check all blocks fast if you are confused.

 
Not sure if it ever will be in the main game, but in SP at least you can use a debug function that shows SI on blocks (if I remember correctly)
.... so all we need is an in game item to trigger this... like the night vision goggles... ummmm... how about “builders safety goggles”. Safety First! :) .  It would be a neat in game item to get and I “support” anyone who wants to add it, TFP included 

 
Not sure if it ever will be in the main game, but in SP at least you can use a debug function that shows SI on blocks (if I remember correctly)
Im not sure how that thing even works, it seems like it generates only a "green=okay" and "black=could collapse at any time" warning.

 
Ages ago I made a post about SI and someone transferred it to a wiki page.

https://7daystodie.gamepedia.com/Structural_Integrity

Other than specific numbers it should still all be valid.


The text was updated and the pictures not: The second picture shows an all wood construct where only 6 blocks are supported by a block. While the text correctly talks about wood blocks supporting 8 wood blocks. A look at previous revisions shows that it once was 36 max load and 6 mass for wood blocks.

Makes it pretty confusing.

 
1] Do I have blocks all the way to bedrock (yes or no): (if yes stop but if no go to question 2)
I basically used this as the basis for reinforcing the original building, running several cobblestone upgrades down to the foundation in the corners and the middle of the back and front walls. Careful examination has taught me that the PoI in question is only just barely structurally sound. There's just one problem with the whole procedure you laid out: It is very common for anything from a few blocks to huge chunk of a building to be floating in air with no unbroken pillar all the way to bedrock anywhere in sight to support it, and these are often right after a chunk update because they occur when another part of the building has just been brought down, so it can't have anything to do with needing an update. There has to be something in the SI code that isn't properly calculating the SI for these floaty bits when nearby blocks have just been taken out. With the house I took over, it was fine after I took out the furniture (that wasn't even in the line-to-bedrock) until I exited the chunk and then re-entered it.

Like a color coding going from green, yellow, red and black to show if something is on the verge of collapse.
That is basically how Empyrion: Galactic Survival does it, except no black. Extreme red = about to collapse.

You have to go into a special "mode" to see these colours, which is perfect because who wants to run around with the entire world displayed in just green and red? The builders goggles idea would just be a different representation of the mechanism for displaying this SI mode.

 
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