PC How soon do you expect to see better than primitive loot?

You repeat this over and over again but it is not true. They are not tutorial tools. They are regular tools and useful.

Some people keep the stone axe for a long time because it is a universal tool that can be used as axe, pickaxe and repair tools but it only needs one slot in your inventory. With mods and points in Miner 69 it is not even that weak. And if I want to dig up something and I don't have my pickaxe or auger with me, I quickly make myself a stone shovel. Works as well.

I found a Q6 Blunderbuss with ammo during a T5 quest today. So I put it on my belt and used it for the rest of the quest. I play on Nomad difficulty and a Blunderbuss rips the head off most zombie at point blank range if you have points in Boomstick. But even if the zombie survives this, he' usually winded or stunned. That's why the Blunderbuss is still a serious weapon in the endgame.
Thats true but its still the item what was instructed in the tutorial to make and use.

I mean sure its useful and just a regular tool just like every other tutorial item in any game, even those terrible white rank weapons in mmo's are useable and count as regular weapons but that still does not change the fact that its the bottom line of all equipment, something what by game design should be thrown out the moment you find the next tiers.

To me it barely makes any sense that im we are only still using in steel age but a T6 stone axe performs better than a T1 iron axe. It also doesnt make much sense that the stone axe is this big of a multitool but at the moment you reach the iron age now you need to have 2-3 tools for the same function as the stone axe. It feels like its an overloaded tutorial item what was designed to ease up the early gameplay before the players are getting thrown into the actual survival.

 
Thats true but its still the item what was instructed in the tutorial to make and use.
Just like the bedroll, the bow, the wooden club, wooden frames and a campfire. And with the exception of the primitive bow and the wooden club, we use all of this throughout the entire game.
The tutorial shows you the basics of the game but that doesn't mean that the items you craft are worthless in the later game.

I mean sure its useful and just a regular tool just like every other tutorial item in any game, even those terrible white rank weapons in mmo's are useable and count as regular weapons but that still does not change the fact that its the bottom line of all equipment, something what by game design should be thrown out the moment you find the next tiers.
Not necessarily. You always have to consider the advantages and disadvantages. For example, iron tools consume more stamina. You can counteract this with the appropriate perks.

Also with weapons you have to consider the pros and cons of each tier. I used the stone sledgehammer until I was able to build a steel hammer because the stamina consumption of the iron sledgehammer was not worth the additional damage. A M60 is not as precise as a tactical assault rifle and the reload animation is much longer. Therefore some prefer the tactical assault rifle as primary weapon over the M60 although it is one tier below the M60.

To me it barely makes any sense that im we are only still using in steel age but a T6 stone axe performs better than a T1 iron axe.
This is because you can't seem to accept that it is just a game. A game developer can decide to integrate a cardboard axe into the game that is better than a steel axe. Is that realistic? No, but it is a game and cardboard or steel are only words to describe something. I doesn't matter if one material is actual better in reality. What really count in a game are the stats.

It also doesnt make much sense that the stone axe is this big of a multitool but at the moment you reach the iron age now you need to have 2-3 tools for the same function as the stone axe.
One reason for this could be that they didn't want to put more work in it than necessary. If they had separated the functions of the hammer and pickaxe from the stone axe, they would also have had to create new models and balance the tools. That means they have to invest more resources into this tiny detail. If you have limited resources, you always have to decide how to spend them. You cannot do everything you would like to do.

There are mods where there is a stone hammer and the ability to repair or upgrade something is removed from the stone axe. The consequence is that one slot more in the inventory is occupied. However, in these mods you usually have a larger inventory.

Be glad that the stone axe is so versatile. With it you save a lot of inventory space when it is still limited.

It feels like its an overloaded tutorial item what was designed to ease up the early gameplay before the players are getting thrown into the actual survival.
I have a completely different opinion. The tutorial does not give you any armor or show you how to fight the zombies and it does not give you a blueprint for a horde base. The beginner does not even know how to put the arrow into the bow. The game gives you the bare minimum on informationen in this tutorial.
 

 
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alanea said:
actually all polls  about a19  loot ended as clear " i like a19  loot but it needs some tweaks"
Uuumm, this is very misleading. The results of all polls concerning A19 loot are as follows:

1. Should Primitive Stone tools be found in Sealed Pre-Apocalypse Boxes? 38 answered "yes", 129 people answered "no".

2. How do you feel about the current loot progression within the context of the overall plan? 23 said they hated it and hated the plan, 29 said they disliked it but were ok with the plan, 35 said they liked it and liked the plan, no one said they loved it and wanted it to stay as is.

3. Do you like the A19 loot system? 27 answered "yes", 33 answered "no".

Now, while the second poll has 35 people saying they liked it, the people who dislike it and the people who hate it combined are 52.

 
Uuumm, this is very misleading. The results of all polls concerning A19 loot are as follows:

1. Should Primitive Stone tools be found in Sealed Pre-Apocalypse Boxes? 38 answered "yes", 129 people answered "no".

2. How do you feel about the current loot progression within the context of the overall plan? 23 said they hated it and hated the plan, 29 said they disliked it but were ok with the plan, 35 said they liked it and liked the plan, no one said they loved it and wanted it to stay as is.

3. Do you like the A19 loot system? 27 answered "yes", 33 answered "no".

Now, while the second poll has 35 people saying they liked it, the people who dislike it and the people who hate it combined are 52.
We should have a poll asking which poll people thought was most accurate.  A nerd poll, if you will.

 
We should have a poll asking which poll people thought was most accurate.  A nerd poll, if you will.
We should also do the following:

1. No, really, did you like the a19 loot system?

0 Yes

0 Yes

See people? There's clearly nothing wrong with the a19 loot system. Move along.

 
This isn't about when to expect it. It's about chances and randomness. If it's straight linear and level locked, there is no excitement in looting left. 

Only having perk trees like in A17 was boring, the introduction of books made it worthwhile and gave it a randomness factor (in my opinion, books should even be more rare and also cover stuff which is not included in skill trees) - books should imho be more of a mainsty than perks, i.e. the other way round than it currently is. Then chasing recipes becomes a challenge, finding the much needed recipe a moment of exorbitant joy. 

Same goes for weapons. Better weapons in more difficult areas is fine, but even then there should be some randomness factor. Like, it's okay to find a steel sledge even early in game or in an easy building. It shouldn't happen every couple of gaming hours though, nut maybe in 1 out of 40 playthroughs? Make it rare, but make it possible. There is nothing as boring as exactly knowing what to expect. "I have gamestag6, i.e. this crate will definitely only contain stone stuff *yawns*" 

I go even further, super loot shouldn't be as frequent as it is in later gamestages. Make finding it an event, something special. General feedback suggest, that most people see it that way and that looting has become boring.

There has been too much fallout cloning here. This game is special. Leave it its own character, there is no need for a 7 days to fallout. I do NOT want it easiert. I do NOT want better loot. I want more thrill, more excitement what to expect. More differences in playthroughs.

 
Hellsmoke said:
I expect there to be a chance right from the start. Knowing what I will get and when takes the fun out of looting. That's what the item quality levels are for, to limit you from getting the best from the start. Now we have two gates on looting, item levels and game stage. This takes away the feeling that you could get lucky and find something nice and takes a big chunk of the excitement out of looting. 
You nailed it!

Roland said:
I'm pretty sure the potential to get anything is still there for day 1. It is just extremely rare.  
That would be okay, alas it really does not feel like it. It feels like A17 level gating, before the books came and changed it for the better.

 
This isn't about when to expect it. It's about chances and randomness. If it's straight linear and level locked, there is no excitement in looting left. 
In a computer game nothing is completely random. You often only have the illusion of randomness. With the information provided by the developers we have been able to take a look behind the curtain and some are now disappointed because they know how it works. It is like having a magic trick explained. Afterwards it is only half as exciting.
 

With the pipe guns that will be add in A20 there is a little more variety but already now I don't see that I always get the same. But people tend to see only weapons and tools and not everything else we get in the loot. For example if I get a pocket mod in the early game it is great because I get more space in the inventory.

 
That would be okay, alas it really does not feel like it. It feels like A17 level gating, before the books came and changed it for the better.
Looks like I was wrong about that. Some of the probabilities are set to 0 until you reach a certain gamestage. 

 
Maybe part of the difference in feelings regarding the loot system is related to what people actually are looking for in the first few days.

Day 1-4, i am not focused on finding weapons and tools at all. I am quite happy when i find t4+ stone tools because I don't switch to iron tools until I have the perks and consumables to back them up with enough stamina and stamina regen. 

Weapon finds are not necessary or a goal, just welcome if they come. There are no zombies I encounter in early days that i can't kill with a primitive bow and wooden club.

My focus early on is books, schematics, seeds, basic crafting mats, a wrench, food, FARM PLOTS, cobblestone, and some sort of armor/clothing for each slot.

Day 2 morning, i usually spend walking the morning walking the streets in my town harvesting gore blocks, looting eggs from nests, and looting all the mail boxes while watching for veggie plots to harvest. I get lots of books and schematics from mail boxes and get my farm plots started. I get my bacon and eggs going, along with red tea.

If I had a choice of quest rewards between a q2 pistol or 3 potato seeds, I would go for the seeds every time unless I already had the recipe. (ADD SEEDS TO T1 QUEST REWARDS!)

Until day 8, weapons and tools are far from the most important items to me. I want fire power for the second horde. Even then, I am happy with a q6 stone ax for a long time in game. Even in a 18, I often would replace my stone ax with an auger. I do small footprint bases in single player, so i have no need for massive output from mining and tend to only mine what i actually need, and a modded q6 stone ax works very well for that, if you are gathering most of your cement and cobble from pois. 

I would be quite happy with the a19 loot system, even if it never changed. I am looking forward to the changes coming in a20 anyways, but i find tons of useful loot in the early days now.

 
Literally never completed a set and I have 300 some hrs, I've been close but you guys must specifically scour the map for bookstores and gunshops
I loot everything.... I find a lot of books in places like mailboxes, file cabinets, and desks.  I also buy them from the trader whenever I find one.

 
Literally never completed a set and I have 300 some hrs, I've been close but you guys must specifically scour the map for bookstores and gunshops
187 hours  a18  and missed three with looting focused gameplay and rechecking  5 traders every reset after day  100

I don't know about impossible.... on day 37 I've got 5 complete sets and 6 more at 6/7
finishing first sets  is  easy .... the problematic part is  catching last pieces when  99%  magazines becomes trash(50xp)

its rather extreme rng if you want  100%  of them  amd its likely worse in a19  as TFP nerfed many sources (several houses ... cathedral .... have alot more empty bookcases instead  full)  .. on other   side  it gives us reason to raid bookstores ... even after day  20 when we  have all perk based recipes lol

 
finishing first sets  is  easy .... the problematic part is  catching last pieces when  99%  magazines becomes trash(50xp)

its rather extreme rng if you want  100%  of them  amd its likely worse in a19  as TFP nerfed many sources (several houses ... cathedral .... have alot more empty bookcases instead  full)  .. on other   side  it gives us reason to raid bookstores ... even after day  20 when we  have all perk based recipes lol
No doubt.... eventually, traders become your best source of books for finishing off sets.

 
No doubt.... eventually, traders become your best source of books for finishing off sets.
yeah  but its little  .. too rng based for me:D i wouldnt mind if some books cost 5k .... if there was  more offered at once ( base cost is  800 ? thats quite cheap .. especially for some books like the one  that make you never trigger landmines)

 
Within the first 5 safes/tool boxes/shotgun Messiah *BOXES* I open

Reading is hard
You refer to the "in shotgun messiah" part? Oh, come on, you still were saying you open safes as well (with just lockpicks or a stone axe and no experience in safe cracking) and that is the unbelievable part, right?

Could you please also correct my punctuation while you're at it. 😉

 
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feels like primitive weapons hang around just a bit too long. we played 4 maps during experimental, two groups of three. 

I like the new system, but it needs some tweaks.

tools don't seem to bad, found a wrench early in every playthrough, iron tools feel about right when you find them.  I think we got lucky on one and found a steel pickaxe fairly early, but wasn't worth using due to stamina. I'm not sure how the system is coded in but it does seem like you can still find a rare Loots early. we had a guy join late on his first day he found a battery Bank.

it was getting frustrating finding 200 Stone axes, but we also don't have lucky looter this time around, so that could be causing some of that.  

I do feel like wooden bows are in some dead zone, by the time we found a single wooden bow in all four playthroughs we had already had level five and six primitive bows, which might seem fine on a loot scale except at that point the primitive bows still did more damage than the wooden, when we finally got to the level 4 wooden bows we already had plenty of guns.

the one thing I noticed is you can't find any of a specific item level, until you cross over a threshold and there's tons of them. I was looking for a marksman rifle since we started our last playthrough, found none up until the point we found the first one which is to be expected, but then within that week we had like 7.

I think the transition between tears should be softer.

 
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