PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[JaxTeller718]

Only a solution to an imaginary problem , but that is only my opinion. For who was it a problem?

In singleplayer there is the option to turn horde/zombies off, and in multiplayer one can just log off, hoping someone don't have start driving back to horde base at 21:59. Maybe it save some server clockcycles though, but that's about it.

For who was it a problem?

For the devs, you know the people who have every single right to make rules in the game THEY CREATED. If devs say no outrunning horde, you dont outrun it. You dont like it guess what, there are these things called options that so many people love to point out to people. Turn them off.

 

[bdubyah]

i would like that or allow us to using weapon parts to repair Said weapon! 

aside from making guns they have no other uses!

now maybe stuff like melee weapons like the machete, steel club, and knuckles could go under (steel weapon parts) so it can make some room for other items!

idk i inhaling spores *cough* 

Yeah, giving the parts another use as a repair item would be good, but I doubt that would happen since they streamlined everything to use repair kits. 

 

[STyK_]

What are the chances of making it so you can't stand on cloth objects? Like tents, trying to do so it breaks and you fall though.

 

[Kattla]

For who was it a problem?

For the devs, you know the people who have every single right to make rules in the game THEY CREATED. If devs say no outrunning horde, you dont outrun it. You dont like it guess what, there are these things called options that so many people love to point out to people. Turn them off.

Yes, there is already an option for horde or not. And that is why i do not see there is a problem needing to be solved in additional ways. If harder difficulties came with horde settings greyed out, i could understand it, but as it is now, i just can't.

 

[Phoenixshade35]

The item degradation talks are reminding me of dying light, i always had to find and mod new weapons, it sucks but at the same time was awesome cause i always had to use different weapons and develop a love for each and master them all, when it comes to repairing we could also have it for using parts to repair, so they don't go to waste, and if we added an upgrading table we could have the chance of upgrading or downgrading an item, all based on luck or a perk.

On the flipside we could also have it so that with crafting we can craft all 6 tier items, but have it also have a chance to craft something subpar, so when repairing if it loses quality, we might be able to craft another level 6 or it could come out as a level 1 if you suck in that certain crafting tier, food for thought, i like the idea of sometimes failing at repairing or crafting, adds more to a game in my opinion

 

[pregnable]

I do not get the want for degrading items.  It is just another way of putting an mmo loot treadmill in the game. 

The end game should be survival, horde tower defense and bandits.  Granted a lot of that is not finished yet. 

We already have food, ammo, repairs, fuel, and whatever base resources to farm... so I do not feel like we need weapons degrading and breaking like everything is made of paper. 

Sounds like we just need more difficult special zombies to destroy your bases so you can complain about how OP they are instead. 

 

[Pegasus]

Well obviously the idea of item degradation is controversial based on the reactions to my post but I have to ask why people think it is a good idea that once you find something that’s it for the rest of the game. Done.
 

Find a blue M60 and it’s so awesome. 
Find another blue M60 and it’s meh. 
 

With item degradation that second find would also be awesome and such a relief. 
 

People argue that nobody wants to have to replace stuff every 20 minutes and I agree that would suck. But it is simplicity itself to adjust and control how often that replacement would be happening.  It’s just a number. TFP could make that number conservative so that tools and weapons and armor last a long time. Then people who hate the mechanic no matter how long it might be could change the number so it would never happen in a single game and others who might want it to be more of a management need could change the number to something they would feel was more meaningful and impactful for them. 
 

But in a game with practically infinite resources, degradation of SOME degree can help use up those resources and also add choices to the game of whether its best to sell or save. Right now selling is a foregone conclusion. 

 I understand what you're saying, Roland, and you do have a point.  But all this discussion is about balancing end game ... and would make the beginning game a nightmare. You finally find a lower tier gun ... and because it is lower tier it has a really low durability stat ... so it breaks ... and when you repair it it becomes an even lower tier gun.  That just turns the entire starting game into an unfun nightmare slog through the muck.

I remember durability ... and parts ... and all the other things that are being suggested again.  There's a reason they were removed in the first place.  If you want tool and weapon durability again ... play an earlier version where it was still a thing.  I think maybe 17 ... or was it 16?

And how many people, besides hard core players, ever make it to the end game anyway?  You're a modder ... isn't it possible to mod something like this into the game for those who want it?  (That's a serious question ... as far as I'm concerned all modding is magic or voodoo.)  I know there is (or was) a mod out there that actually brought back the gun parts ... so I'd think if you could bring back gun parts you could bring back degradation somehow?  Or, mod it so that guns aren't repairable at all ... that'd make every gun you found extra special.

 

[Phoenixshade35]

 I understand what you're saying, Roland, and you do have a point.  But all this discussion is about balancing end game ... and would make the beginning game a nightmare. You finally find a lower tier gun ... and because it is lower tier it has a really low durability stat ... so it breaks ... and when you repair it it becomes an even lower tier gun.  That just turns the entire starting game into an unfun nightmare slog through the muck.

I remember durability ... and parts ... and all the other things that are being suggested again.  There's a reason they were removed in the first place.  If you want tool and weapon durability again ... play an earlier version where it was still a thing.  I think maybe 17 ... or was it 16?

And how many people, besides hard core players, ever make it to the end game anyway?  You're a modder ... isn't it possible to mod something like this into the game for those who want it?  (That's a serious question ... as far as I'm concerned all modding is magic or voodoo.)  I know there is (or was) a mod out there that actually brought back the gun parts ... so I'd think if you could bring back gun parts you could bring back degradation somehow?

When it comes to your gun comment, what if it did not lose the tier 1 durability?  maybe it just takes more than 1 repair kit to fix it all the way up, that would solve somewhat the early game blues, sure u might need 3 stones to fix your ax, but its still available, what would u think of that?

 

[MechanicalLens]

We have talked about perma degradation but I'm not sure it would be fun replacing your gear constantly (which means swapping all your mods, dye), and when you finally got a legendary purple when those come out, to see it degrade away and become useless over time might suck. Imagine spending 90k dukes on a gyro and then you have to buy another one because it cannot be repaired any more times.

Not to mention that if even pipe weapons were non-repairable, would it really add anything to the game? A couple infinitely repairable primitive weapons in your hotbar vs hoarding as many as you could. Just my thoughts.

 

[Pegasus]

When it comes to your gun comment, what if it did not lose the tier 1 durability?  maybe it just takes more than 1 repair kit to fix it all the way up, that would solve somewhat the early game blues, sure u might need 3 stones to fix your ax, but its still available, what would u think of that?

I think folks are trying to get something put back in that was taken out for a reason and that I absolutely hated the first time around and probably wouldn't like any more the second time around.

But I also think that it's not my call and the pimps will do what they think is best for the game.

But remember this ... your beloved motorcycle or gyrocopter will also become useless under this new system.  Madmole said that it's all or nothing.  Do you really want to have to rebuild your transportation from scratch every few game days?

 

[Phoenixshade35]

I think folks are trying to get something put back in that was taken out for a reason and that I absolutely hated the first time around and probably wouldn't like any more the second time around.

But I also think that it's not my call and the pimps will do what they think is best for the game.

But remember this ... your beloved motorcycle or gyrocopter will also become useless under this new system.  Madmole said that it's all or nothing.

personally im fine with that. if i have to craft them all over again it would not bug me in the slightest given later game the parts are easy enough to obtain with the right perks taken, i just have a lot of level 6 stuff and no point in keeping it, i play solo so this is a single player perspective thing from me mind you, it could also be an option to have item degradation turned on or off, to suit the player in their own right, that way servers could have it on or off, that way no harm or foul.

its like with fallout 4, i hated that only the power armor can break, i miss being in the middle of battle and having my weapon break and need to be repaired, now they never break, and that gets boring to me, but to each their own right

Though i wouldn't mind the random crafting to be a thing, cause then its a roll of the dice what you get.

 

[Pegasus]

personally im fine with that. if i have to craft them all over again it would not bug me in the slightest given later game the parts are easy enough to obtain with the right perks taken, i just have a lot of level 6 stuff and no point in keeping it, i play solo so this is a single player perspective thing from me mind you, it could also be an option to have item degradation turned on or off, to suit the player in their own right, that way servers could have it on or off, that way no harm or foul.

its like with fallout 4, i hated that only the power armor can break, i miss being in the middle of battle and having my weapon break and need to be repaired, now they never break, and that gets boring to me, but to each their own right

Though i wouldn't mind the random crafting to be a thing, cause then its a roll of the dice what you get.

Again, you're talking about late game.  What about early game when you have your first mechanical vehicle?  If it means that much to y'all, can you just self impose restraint?  When your gun breaks instead of repairing it scrap it or throw it out and use another.  There's no reason to cripple the early game when there are things that can be done by the player to mimic exactly what you're requesting.  People hated hated hated degredation when it was in before, except for a what are probably the same few who want it back now. 

And random crafting is already a thing ... the crafted items have random stats just like found items.

 

[Phoenixshade35]

Again, you're talking about late game.  What about early game when you have your first mechanical vehicle?  If it means that much to y'all, can you just self impose restraint?  When your gun degrades instead of repairing it scrap it or throw it out and use another.  There's no reason to cripple the early game when there are things that can be done by the player to mimic exactly what you're requesting.  People hated hated hated degredation when it was in before, except for a what are probably the same few who want it back now. 

And random crafting is already a thing ... the crafted items have random stats just like found items.

i am talking about end game stuff yes, because there is little to no real endgame going on, and early game with default settings it would not matter much to be honest.

yes random stats from crafting, but not random tier levels, it could be interesting to craft your first stone ax and end up randomly with a level 5 stone ax, that would make anybodies day.

plus early game does not last very long for the average player, within the first week of looting they would have enough stuff for weapons and tools plus parts it would not matter at all, hence why i said it could be a toggled option as well for those that want that extra challenge, adding options isn't bad, but simply keeping all the same stuff forever, it does get boring after awhile hence why it might be a fun option for those wanting to try something new, like lowering the loot abundance, im currently doing my first 50% run and its a lot harder, it made me rethink how i play and i love that

 

[MechanicalLens]

Well obviously the idea of item degradation is controversial based on the reactions to my post but I have to ask why people think it is a good idea that once you find something that’s it for the rest of the game. Done.
 

Find a blue M60 and it’s so awesome. 
Find another blue M60 and it’s meh. 
 

With item degradation that second find would also be awesome and such a relief. 
 

People argue that nobody wants to have to replace stuff every 20 minutes and I agree that would suck. But it is simplicity itself to adjust and control how often that replacement would be happening.  It’s just a number. TFP could make that number conservative so that tools and weapons and armor last a long time. Then people who hate the mechanic no matter how long it might be could change the number so it would never happen in a single game and others who might want it to be more of a management need could change the number to something they would feel was more meaningful and impactful for them. 
 

But in a game with practically infinite resources, degradation of SOME degree can help use up those resources and also add choices to the game of whether its best to sell or save. Right now selling is a foregone conclusion. 

@Roland @madmole How about with each repair, gear could gradually lose stats, making finding a replacement that much more valuable? For example, if you repair that blue M60 over and over, it would lose 2-3 damage per repair, maybe some durability here and there, perhaps some rounds per minute here and there as well. Armor could slowly lose effective resistance, armor rating, durability... Tools could lose block damage, durability, etc... If you glue together a smashed plate, the cracks will nonetheless forever show. Eventually your gear will degrade enough that you'll be able to justify replacing it, but it won't be such a sudden event (from working to suddenly broken) that it wouldn't cause immediate frustration.

 

[Phoenixshade35]

@Roland @madmole How about with each repair, gear could gradually lose stats, making finding a replacement that much more valuable? For example, if you repair that blue M60 over and over, it would lose 2-3 damage per repair, maybe some durability here and there, perhaps some rounds per minute here and there as well. Armor could slowly lose effective resistance, armor rating, durability... Tools could lose block damage, durability, etc... If you glue together a smashed plate, the cracks will nonetheless forever show. Eventually your gear will degrade enough that you'll be able to justify replacing it, but it won't be such a sudden event (from working to suddenly broken) that it wouldn't cause immediate frustration.

i could get on board with that, sure some would complain that it would mean more looting but..... isn't that what we do anyways when we are done building lol

 

[pregnable]

Again, you're talking about late game.  What about early game when you have your first mechanical vehicle?  If it means that much to y'all, can you just self impose restraint?  When your gun breaks instead of repairing it scrap it or throw it out and use another.  There's no reason to cripple the early game when there are things that can be done by the player to mimic exactly what you're requesting.  People hated hated hated degredation when it was in before, except for a what are probably the same few who want it back now. 

And random crafting is already a thing ... the crafted items have random stats just like found items.

Yeah, the end game is not even done yet.  Sounds like people are trying to solve a problem that does not really even exist that is related to the end game not being finished. 

The older builds with all the stuff in it were not as fun and were probably not as popular for a reason. 

 

[Phoenixshade35]

Yeah, the end game is not even done yet.  Sounds like people are trying to solve a problem that does not really even exist that is related to the end game not being finished. 

The older builds with all the stuff in it were not as fun and were probably not as popular for a reason. 

but adding things for the end game will help with the life of the game, no one complained about stuff degrading before, cause you could always combine parts to make your weapon/tool/armor better as it got weaker from use, i do miss that, it made it so worth while to keep all those parts, where as now im sitting on over 100 motor tool parts and nothing to do with them cause i got a level 6 impact wrench, an auger and chainsaw, so this discussion also helps with that stuff too

 

[HungryZombie]

Well obviously the idea of item degradation is controversial based on the reactions to my post but I have to ask why people think it is a good idea that once you find something that’s it for the rest of the game. Done.
 

Find a blue M60 and it’s so awesome. 
Find another blue M60 and it’s meh. 
 

With item degradation that second find would also be awesome and such a relief. 
 

People argue that nobody wants to have to replace stuff every 20 minutes and I agree that would suck. But it is simplicity itself to adjust and control how often that replacement would be happening.  It’s just a number. TFP could make that number conservative so that tools and weapons and armor last a long time. Then people who hate the mechanic no matter how long it might be could change the number so it would never happen in a single game and others who might want it to be more of a management need could change the number to something they would feel was more meaningful and impactful for them. 
 

But in a game with practically infinite resources, degradation of SOME degree can help use up those resources and also add choices to the game of whether its best to sell or save. Right now selling is a foregone conclusion. 

What you say is fair enough. If you had a durability of 100 and it lost a point or 2 of durability each repair I could deal with that. I do not want to have to find a new weapon each horde night though.

 

[falloutcloud]

@Roland @madmole How about with each repair, gear could gradually lose stats, making finding a replacement that much more valuable? For example, if you repair that blue M60 over and over, it would lose 2-3 damage per repair, maybe some durability here and there, perhaps some rounds per minute here and there as well. Armor could slowly lose effective resistance, armor rating, durability... Tools could lose block damage, durability, etc... If you glue together a smashed plate, the cracks will nonetheless forever show. Eventually your gear will degrade enough that you'll be able to justify replacing it, but it won't be such a sudden event (from working to suddenly broken) that it wouldn't cause immediate frustration.

I could see this with vehicles too. My suggestion would be each tire, engine, battery, and chassis all degrade separately based on their quality. Each part could be replaced individually so to make it easier to keep it working.

 

[pregnable]

but adding things for the end game will help with the life of the game, no one complained about stuff degrading before, cause you could always combine parts to make your weapon/tool/armor better as it got weaker from use, i do miss that, it made it so worth while to keep all those parts, where as now im sitting on over 100 motor tool parts and nothing to do with them cause i got a level 6 impact wrench, an auger and chainsaw, so this discussion also helps with that stuff too

I hated degrading before.  I probably complained about it, but I do not remember heh. 

I think I stopped playing for a while when the game was like that, cause like I said, the forum was balancing things and we ended up with the starter bow being better than all of the guns in the game. 

I would honestly rather have pooping, peeing and having to brush my teeth and go to the dentist in game before item degrading, cause at least that would be so stupid it would be funny and kinda amusing.