PC The eating requirement is breaking emersion

I tunneled through a mountain with a stone axe and stone shovel with zero points in mining.  I ate food, but it was still only like once or twice a day and I mined for like a good 10+ minutes without needing to eat again easily.  I feel like there is some discrepancy causing some people to use more food than others.  I'll look into doing some testing tomorrow in a creative mode fresh game.

 
Hunger is absolutely @%$*#!ed with this patch. Immaterial if it happens to everyone all the time. Hunger is broken. I could run and do activities with relatively no depletion then, stand still minutes later and watch it drop. It is absolutely broken in MP with this patch.     

* Why in the hell would the word 'b u g g e r e d' be treated like a curse word??? FFS, that's not even in the patch.

 
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Hunger is absolutely @%$*#!ed with this patch. Immaterial if it happens to everyone all the time. Hunger is broken. I could run and do activities with relatively no depletion then, stand still minutes later and watch it drop. It is absolutely broken in MP with this patch.     

* Why in the hell would the word 'b u g g e r e d' be treated like a curse word??? FFS, that's not even in the patch.
It is definitely possible that there is some bug involved. If it is no exxageration that you are standing still doing nothing and it drops then that is definitely a bug (as standing still should cost 0 stamina). Please make a bug report if you see that. Just hit F9 a few times (which makes a screenshot you will find in 7 Days to Die\Screenshots) and add these pictures to the bug report together with your logfile.

 
You've missed the point a little bit there.  My statement doesn't negate anything.  I don't want to feel forced into putting points into certain areas of the the skill tree.  I'm sure that's not what the Fun Pimps want either. They want a variety of builds. if everyone has to spec into survival parts of the game, then why have an open skill tree at all? 

The food drainage needs balancing in my opinion.  Clearly not for you.  You're loving it, and loving arguing with everyone that doesn't.  Which brings me to the point that if I was the only one complaining, you could maybe pull the "playing the game wrong" card, but with so many people complaining, it's clearly a balance issue.  Nobody owes you a video or squat for that matter. You're not on the dev team, and you're not the overseer of how people should play.  Maybe just let people give feedback on balancing issues so the devs can make their own call.  You can give your own feedback to the contrary without hassling each person on the thread.
Points in those areas certainly are not necessary.  I don't speck into any of them and have no problems with food at all past day 3 at the latest.  

Don't eat canned food for starters - it is a wast if it can be used in any recipe.  Do the buried treasure quests to start - you will get at least one effective recipe in those chest that will take care of food for the rest of the game or at least until you find a better recipe.

If you are feeling that those points into survival skills are that vital then yes, that is exactly what the devs are going for.  They want point selection to be meaningful.  It is not meaningful if you put them wherever you want without feeling like you are sacrificing something.  You may not like that balance but that is what they are going for.  I feel the same about the strength attribute and mining.  Those skills are damn near mandatory for my play style and yet I really hate spending a single point in strength.

 
I personally level up Masterchef, Iron Gut, and Living off the Land with my initial tutorial quest points EVERY TIME.
I usually put my tutorial points into

  • sex rex to reduce stamina use with weapons and tools
  • Cardio for better running
  • healing factor for being able to recover HP passively
  • Lucky looter for better loot
The first 2-3 days are also good survivable with canned food.

Further gameplay depends. Hopefully the trader has burried supplies. They give you food and receips. Always hoping for the bacon & eggs receipe.

The first days i spend dukes to the trader and the vending machines for food. One burried supplies gives 560 dukes. The cans cost 20 dukes per 5 food, so with the first burried supplies you have enough dukes to buy for 140 food. I never needed to make boiled eggs or grilled meat. If i'm still short, i could do that additionally.

Next levelup point then goes into Miner 69er for duing burried supplies faster.

Burried supplies quests are mandatory. They don't give you anything you don't need. Cans, food receips, dukes and clay you need later anyway. And they usually are closer and you don't get overloaded.

If i get the receipe for bacon & eggs, i don't even put a point into master chef. If not master chef is the next skill at day 3 or 4. By this time i already have 10-20 eggs and more meat then needed with the eggs.

I harvest the cadavers on the streets for rotten flesh and nitrate and build farming plots asap. Lotl is not needed yet. I put points into lotl first when i have some plots, found seeds and the plants are grown. Usually not before day 4-5, maybe even later. (maybe lotl makes sense if you find a corn field or similar earlier).

Once i can cook bacon & eggs, i hold back canned food as much as possible for cooking even improved food sooner or later.

I also haven't crafted a single weapon in A19 yet. The skills points are much more usefull in other perks and i always found better weapons and tools anyway.

So yes, the first few days are for pumping up food supplies and improve stamina use.

Further then i put points as required

  • if i find a wrench -> salvage operations
  • if i find heavy armor -> heavy armor
  • if i find light armor -> light armor (i prefer heavy armor and there was no game where i haven't found heavy yet...)
  • depending on what weapon i use, usually the first point for the regarded special skill
  • if nothing else, 1 point in pack mule
  • 1 point in daring adventurer since i usually only do random looting rarely anymore
  • Advanced engineer if i haven't found a forge receipe yet.
Next task is to go for a bicycle. So INT to 2 and mechanic. One point saved if i find the nerd googles.

It is usually day 7-10 right now and everything i skilled yet is for stamina, food and mobility. Absolutely no specilazation yet. Specialization starts NOW.

Since the gamestage raises much slower now (and also not affected by the difficulty anymore), it's also not required to increase weapons skills fast.

As many others repeatedly said: Up to like day 15-20 food is again no issue anymore.

It's also hard not to skill in strength and agility soon, as you find pistols or blunderbus first and there is a relatively long way to go until you are even able to find rifles, automatic rifles or junk turrets.

Up to now i haven't spent a single point into any base attribute, that one in int is the first.

For me it clearly looks like early game has been generalized. There are still options how to do it exactly but going fully for a weapon build from day 1 is not good anymore. And imho that is good.

 
I don't usually visit this forum but I just came here to post the same thing. To much eating!

Latest, build increased the number of friendly animals though. Now it's like we're at the zoo. We can't go anywhere without coming across bears and wolves. There's plenty of meat, but still... you don't want to be eating every 5 minutes. I'm trying to build a pure intelligence character, but I feel like I'm being forced into buying Strength and several levels of Iron Gut skill.

Could we reduce wild animals slightly and reduce need to eat slightly?

 
Latest, build increased the number of friendly animals though. Now it's like we're at the zoo. We can't go anywhere without coming across bears and wolves.
Agree. Looks like TFP didn't increase it a little, but even more then doubled it. Should be tied to gamestage too. I now have been killed 3 times by direwolfs and seen at least 5 others. At the last quest poi there have been 2 bears directly in front. If seen more direwolfs since the last update, then i've seen alltogether since i play 7d2d. :D

Killing a direwolf in early game is nearly impossible, if one notices you, you're dead. You can't outrun them and even since im dual-blunderbussing, they survived to shots in their face and some hits with a spear. I still died. Double as bad as the lost backpacks seem to occur primarily when killed by an animal!

And even if some complain about the food here: Was meat an issue? Now i'm drowning even more in meat.

 
I've been playing since A12, and also have literally thousands of hours in Ark, so this isn't my first rodeo, thank you.  I'm not saying those perks need to be eliminated. It's good they are there, but I shouldn't be forced to perk into them just to get by.  Perking into them should make already manageable survival easy, not unmanageable survival manageable. Food drainage needs to be toned down. This isn't JUST a survival game.  It's also crafting, shooting and looting...tower defense in a way.  It has lots of aspects which right now are being dominated by the survival angle.  Balance is what I'm asking for.
Putting 1 point into a few survival skills IS balance. that's my point. A Survival game with perks should REQUIRE A SMALL AMOUNT of points into survival.

Agree. Looks like TFP didn't increase it a little, but even more then doubled it. Should be tied to gamestage too. I now have been killed 3 times by direwolfs and seen at least 5 others. At the last quest poi there have been 2 bears directly in front. If seen more direwolfs since the last update, then i've seen alltogether since i play 7d2d. :D

Killing a direwolf in early game is nearly impossible, if one notices you, you're dead. You can't outrun them and even since im dual-blunderbussing, they survived to shots in their face and some hits with a spear. I still died. Double as bad as the lost backpacks seem to occur primarily when killed by an animal!

And even if some complain about the food here: Was meat an issue? Now i'm drowning even more in meat.
Yea. Someone really needs to teach MM the meaning of the word balance. One day into the new patch and I saw 5 bears, 3 wolves, 1 dire wolf, chickens and deer everywhere I looked. WTF did he do? I'm not even wanting to login now til this is fixed. That was my Navezgane world. Later that night I logged into my Nitro world and had the same messed up animals. I had 235 meat in the first 5 minutes just from having to hop up on roofs and use tons of pistol ammo to kill 3 bears and run over 3 wolves. It's seriously broken. Joel needs to leave adjustments for someone who knows how to do them. Stick to design!

Watch the first few minutes of this and you'll see bears everywhere. At the end you'll see another.



 
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For me it clearly looks like early game has been generalized. There are still options how to do it exactly but going fully for a weapon build from day 1 is not good anymore. And imho that is good.
Putting 1 point into a few survival skills IS balance. that's my point. A Survival game with perks should REQUIRE A SMALL AMOUNT of points into survival.
I went all in agility and I was fine.  Admittedly I'm an experienced 1,000+ hour player so I know how to play the systems but it's more than doable.  The only time I've ever seen this game have food problems that were not really doable was early A17 were even I starved to death a few times.  But there are plenty of ways to handle it now with or without skill points invested.

It sounds like people are running into bugs.  I'd advise those people start a fresh save in Navezgane and see if the issue persists.  RWG has been buggy for me in multiple ways.  I was supposed to do dedicated testing today but I can't stop playing The Long Dark lol.  Gdammit I love 7DTD but The Long Dark is super good too and it still has that new wolf smell for me right now :D.

 
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The increased food usage is mildly annoying but it's easily managed by the increased amount of animals and the fact that they removed the food poisoning debuff from eating. 

The bears and wolves were a surprise but after a few days when I had enough arrows they are easily managed. You can't run away from them if you run in a straight line but you zig zag around a and over a hill or two and you can lose them. 

If you can jump up on one of those large rocks you can be safe also to shoot them. 

I have lots of meat before the 1st blood moon.

If you spot a wolf or a boar, just make a 2x2 stack of wood frames and go about 3-4 blocks high and make a shooting perch. Makes them trivial to kill and makes them free meat.

Don't try that with a bear though. Make a perch on the side of a wall or shoot from inside a building or just run!  Bear takes 40 arrows but the meat is worth it.

 
The increased food usage is mildly annoying but it's easily managed by the increased amount of animals and the fact that they removed the food poisoning debuff from eating. 

The bears and wolves were a surprise but after a few days when I had enough arrows they are easily managed. You can't run away from them if you run in a straight line but you zig zag around a and over a hill or two and you can lose them. 

If you can jump up on one of those large rocks you can be safe also to shoot them. 

I have lots of meat before the 1st blood moon.

If you spot a wolf or a boar, just make a 2x2 stack of wood frames and go about 3-4 blocks high and make a shooting perch. Makes them trivial to kill and makes them free meat.

Don't try that with a bear though. Make a perch on the side of a wall or shoot from inside a building or just run!  Bear takes 40 arrows but the meat is worth it.
Don't expect B163 to be the final version of this though, that patch went too far and is already dialed back for the next patch.

 
It is definitely possible that there is some bug involved. If it is no exxageration that you are standing still doing nothing and it drops then that is definitely a bug (as standing still should cost 0 stamina). Please make a bug report if you see that. Just hit F9 a few times (which makes a screenshot you will find in 7 Days to Die\Screenshots) and add these pictures to the bug report together with your logfile.
I'll try and do that the next time I play A19. Although, would a ss necessarily show the bug? I mean, how would the ss demonstrate when I was standing still in comparison to when I was moving? Would the log file validate them? Fairly new to this process and I've not submitted a bug report previously. Thanks for the reply.

 
I'll try and do that the next time I play A19. Although, would a ss necessarily show the bug? I mean, how would the ss demonstrate when I was standing still in comparison to when I was moving? Would the log file validate them? Fairly new to this process and I've not submitted a bug report previously. Thanks for the reply.
The screenshots are to make sure you didn't misinterpret what the UI tells you. The testers will generally assume people to be honest, but also assume them to be novices at bug testing. A sizable quantity of reported bugs are not bugs but misconfigurations of the game or wrong observations by players. Naturally a video would be even more convincing, but a series of photos is a lot easier to get for most players and the next best thing.

The log likewise is the best way to show them you did not misconfigure the game, did not forget to remove an old mod or even play with an old version of the game.

There is a sticky thread there you should read before posting, it explains how you find the log and how to best post it and what information you should give.

 
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meganoth said:
The screenshots are to make sure you didn't misinterpret what the UI tells you. The testers will generally assume people to be honest, but also assume them to be novices at bug testing. A sizable quantity of reported bugs are not bugs but misconfigurations of the game or wrong observations by players. Naturally a video would be even more convincing, but a series of photos is a lot easier to get for most players and the next best thing.

The log likewise is the best way to show them you did not misconfigure the game, did not forget to remove an old mod or even play with an old version of the game.

There is a sticky thread there you should read before posting, it explains how you find the log and how to best post it and what information you should give.
I'm a QA tester and this is 100% on point.  Players honestly tell you what they feel.  However what they feel and what really happened often diverge.  Lack of attentiveness, misremembering, ignorance of game mechanics, bias, etc are all things that interfere in the player communicating an accurate situation to the developers.  AND, even if the players communicate everything accurately, they players may not understand what the actual problem is as they interpret the problem to be something else.

Here's a good high profile real world game development example: Too Many Skags.  Articles as accurate and understandable as this are pretty rare.  Parsing player feedback (and even QA tester feedback) is quite an art.  It's not simple.  And even when you accurately identify every part of the situation perfectly as a developer there are often large groups of players with opposed interests and you have to choose what kind of game you're going to make.  Someone is always going to be unhappy with your changes.  All you can do is serve the largest audience possible (of your targeted core players) while also keeping to your vision or spirit of the game as much as possible.  It's a constant balancing act and sometimes the vision takes precedence and sometimes player feedback takes precedence.

It's doggone Ruff :).

 
meganoth said:
Don't expect B163 to be the final version of this though, that patch went too far and is already dialed back for the next patch.
So I should hurry to complete the "Nail some chicks" quest. I haven't done that since Alpha 16 and right now I'm seeing more chickens than in A17 and A18 combined.

 
Diggs said:
I'll try and do that the next time I play A19. Although, would a ss necessarily show the bug? I mean, how would the ss demonstrate when I was standing still in comparison to when I was moving? Would the log file validate them? Fairly new to this process and I've not submitted a bug report previously. Thanks for the reply.
I'd suggest, make a screenshot where the ingame time is visible and also your stats screen where the exact food is shown. Then do whatever you do you are thinking it uses far to much food and tell what you did, best is to do something simple and repeatable, e.g. mining. Then do the screenshots again, so we can see how much food was used and how much time had passed. Also tell your skills and what tool you are using.

Then somebody else can crosstest if he consumes that much food too. If there turns out to be a big difference, it might be a bug.

 
I'd suggest, make a screenshot where the ingame time is visible and also your stats screen where the exact food is shown. Then do whatever you do you are thinking it uses far to much food and tell what you did, best is to do something simple and repeatable, e.g. mining. Then do the screenshots again, so we can see how much food was used and how much time had passed. Also tell your skills and what tool you are using.

Then somebody else can crosstest if he consumes that much food too. If there turns out to be a big difference, it might be a bug.
Diggs seems to have observed food consumption even while standing still and doing nothing. If that is the case, doing mining would be counter-productive as a test.

 
If I stand perfectly still and just watch my food meter I lose 1 food every 130 seconds. Is that how it's supposed to work?

 
If I stand perfectly still and just watch my food meter I lose 1 food every 130 seconds. Is that how it's supposed to work?
Happens to me as well. No stamina usage, but there is a sort of background food drain going on. Which makes sense to me.

 
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If I stand perfectly still and just watch my food meter I lose 1 food every 130 seconds. Is that how it's supposed to work?
Not sure what the exact drain is but there is a latent food drain that occurs naturally even if you never move.  Then there is a drain on top of that to regain stamina.  Being the driver of a vehicle also increases the latent food drain.  I do not think that moving actually effects this - I believe the drain in a vehicle is increased by virtue of just being in the vehicle itself weather or not you are actually moving but I have not tested this.  I have no idea if passengers are under the same effects though.

 
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