PC Open Letter to TFP's...

katarynna said:
Are you trolling? 

I just watched the video. Yes, you fell at 2059. And you did not take a breather, you drove around till after 0400 to avoid fighting the horde.

Sure, you went back to your base after 0400 and killed them. But driving around for literally almost 7 in game hours is not a breather imo.
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Lol...that was a long @%$*#! breather.....

....I'm sorry Demandred, but your going to have to learn to adapt to the change.  What's OP as hell is driving around for hours in relative safety for the majority of the event.  It's not about whether its realistic or not, the blood moon is a nut check gameplay event which you either survive or die. 

Imo you lost that blood moon as soon as you drove off in the sunset.  Your only fooling yourself if you think that was a breather...and you won...

As far as running around on foot and surviving a blood moon...guys do it all the time now even when there are demolishers.  Stop by the image and video sub forums and check out some of the videos there if you dont believe me...

Edit: another few words of advice, try not to overthink/over analyze what you see in videos until you experience it yourself.  Why worry over something that hasnt even happened to you yet?  Just try enjoying the game in the moment and take on each change as a new survival challenge...

...hell I died 2 a dire wolf in the latest build which hasnt happen to me in ages.  If they leave it like that I'll just adapt and figure out a new way to survive.

 
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I sent Madmole a link to Vedui's video posted on the original post about the vultures and asked whether it was too much in his opinion.

He said, "They seem to be working as intended."

 
The game has a lot of Tower Defense focus in it. 

That means, there will be waves of great varying zombies; ranged, flying, juggernauts, tanks, climbing, summoning... speaking in general terms. Big part of the whole idea of the game, is to design and improvise and find ways to overcome this. The game offers a wide variety of skills and tools to accomplish this, and since it is only a game, people will find cheesy ways to defeat some of the mechanics...especially in early access. Yes, it is not done, and final balancing and tweaks are some time away after all content is in ( I completely agree the demolition zombies are just way off the reservation. Something doing that much damage, should not be that hard to kill, and there should not be spawning so many of them either) , but I feel a lot of people missed one of the core intended mechanics here. It is not just a building survival game, but a Tower Defense with a lot of added flavor, the best way I can describe it in my limited English. 

 
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katarynna said:
Are you trolling? 

I just watched the video. Yes, you fell at 2059. And you did not take a breather, you drove around till after 0400 to avoid fighting the horde.

Sure, you went back to your base after 0400 and killed them. But driving around for literally almost 7 in game hours is not a breather imo.
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You're confusing video time index with in-game time. 20:59 in the video is 3:26 in his game. So he drove around for only half an hour until the sun came up.

 
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ah sorry. you are correct. but he did drive til the horde was over, which is still more than a breather to me, but not nearly as bad as i thought.

 
Laz Man said:
Lol...that was a long @%$*#! breather.....

....I'm sorry Demandred, but your going to have to learn to adapt to the change.  What's OP as hell is driving around for hours in relative safety for the majority of the event.  It's not about whether its realistic or not, the blood moon is a nut check gameplay event which you either survive or die. 

Imo you lost that blood moon as soon as you drove off in the sunset.  Your only fooling yourself if you think that was a breather...and you won...

As far as running around on foot and surviving a blood moon...guys do it all the time now even when there are demolishers.  Stop by the image and video sub forums and check out some of the videos there if you dont believe me...

Edit: another few words of advice, try not to overthink/over analyze what you see in videos until you experience it yourself.  Why worry over something that hasnt even happened to you yet?  Just try enjoying the game in the moment and take on each change as a new survival challenge...

...hell I died 2 a dire wolf in the latest build which hasnt happen to me in ages.  If they leave it like that I'll just adapt and figure out a new way to survive.
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Maybe check the in game time when I fell eh? How did you get hours out of like less than 30 mins of in game time, which was like 2 mins real world time? And you are entitled to your opinion, as am I. I DID win, because I used the tools and resources available to me to do so, simple as that.

 
Roland said:
I sent Madmole a link to Vedui's video posted on the original post about the vultures and asked whether it was too much in his opinion.

He said, "They seem to be working as intended."
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Well of course he did. That's the attitude behind the problem, which was the reason I posted that other persons comment/letter.  Other people are talking about all the nerfs, and how the zoms are just getting to be too much even for a zombie horde game. There comes a point when it feels like the dev's are cheating, and when I saw Vedui's very through test video, that was the feeling I got instantly.  Or lacking in sportsmanship, same thing. Feels exactly like how when you play a game against a 5 yo in a game they made up, and they start making up new ridiculous rules when they start losing. It's their game sure fine, and I already bought it, but if I didn't already own it and I came across that video beforehand, I would reconsider buying it in the first place...

 
Demandred1957 said:
yeah, lets see you try and outrun a high level horde on foot..Video or it didn't happen. And I didn't say I can't make a good base. I made a base without cheese that took the day 126 horde. But I did have a moment where I fell through a hole, and had to run them down in the 4x4 for a minute, before getting back in my base. Now that would be game over man. And they should make it insane hard with the slider, just for people like you. It sours the experience when you have to turn it down from default. I like to play on default settings for the most part, and I expect to survive for a long time as long as I play smart and careful.
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If you dont wear armor or only cloth armor + jacket speed boost its really easy. coffee helps too

 
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Demandred1957 said:
ummm watch the video yourself.. 20:59 is the exact moment I fell, and you tell me how you would survive??
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The video really doesn't answer why you didn't get back into the horde base. I assume because you can't. You also don't have a fallback position which would be an alternative. In that case why shouldn't you be punished for such an obvious oversight?

I sometimes forgot to replenish bandages or healing kits when going out. And sometimes that has cost me my life. I didn't ask TFP to please make bleeding stop at 10 HPs. It was my own fault.

Because you see the development of the game you get the impression that TFP is somehow always removing the best strategy you had for surviving. That isn't surprising as overpowered godlike strategies are always the best ones. But overpowered godlike strategies have no place in a game where you need to always be in danger.

Next time build a zombie-safe entrance to your base and maybe even add a fallback position in case your base is overrun. Some zombie breaks a block that allows other zombies standing on it and somehow they get on your top level. If you want to be prepared for that case you have to have a fallback position even if that position is only able to function once. I just use cleared POIs for that case. The zombies will probably flatten that POI but it will save my neck for that night.

As you can see there are solutions to your problem that are not overpowered and 100% safe but give you a very good chance to survive. Try them out, I am 100% sure both will still work when the game goes gold.

 
Totally agree with Meganoth. I just finished my day 14 horde & got my azz handed to me. 

Had a few week spots I forgot to reinforce in my base however when I escaped due to them breaking in, vultures had my go nads for lunch! 

I loved every minute of it & realized where I went wrong.

That's all you gotta do man, see where sh*t went south & improve on it. 

 
sometimes i dont know what the problem of others is...

they use mechanics to trick the zombies, like doors to block them or this ramps...

this is a hard survival game with horde and crafting (the title says it) (animals when u see it, u can escape...or wait 2min then the animal will go away)

its not so hard to build a base...u will learn how it works (u must try 1,2,3,times)...for my game now at day 40 im at the water tower (i v not enough material to build my own)

in my other game, i build a cheat free zombie base and it works fine... (ok the first run i made an error, but the second iv made the error gone and it works) we had 1000zombies (warrior, 64zombies, 120min day)



 
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Demandred1957 said:
Maybe check the in game time when I fell eh? How did you get hours out of like less than 30 mins of in game time, which was like 2 mins real world time? And you are entitled to your opinion, as am I. I DID win, because I used the tools and resources available to me to do so, simple as that.
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Yep, now you can figure out how to win with the new set of tools that you have available to you in A19.  Be prepared for the "rules" to keep changing until the game is out of Alpha.

It's not unsportsmanlike to change rules to an unfinished game.

 
meganoth said:
The video really doesn't answer why you didn't get back into the horde base. I assume because you can't. You also don't have a fallback position which would be an alternative. In that case why shouldn't you be punished for such an obvious oversight?

I sometimes forgot to replenish bandages or healing kits when going out. And sometimes that has cost me my life. I didn't ask TFP to please make bleeding stop at 10 HPs. It was my own fault.

Because you see the development of the game you get the impression that TFP is somehow always removing the best strategy you had for surviving. That isn't surprising as overpowered godlike strategies are always the best ones. But overpowered godlike strategies have no place in a game where you need to always be in danger.

Next time build a zombie-safe entrance to your base and maybe even add a fallback position in case your base is overrun. Some zombie breaks a block that allows other zombies standing on it and somehow they get on your top level. If you want to be prepared for that case you have to have a fallback position even if that position is only able to function once. I just use cleared POIs for that case. The zombies will probably flatten that POI but it will save my neck for that night.

As you can see there are solutions to your problem that are not overpowered and 100% safe but give you a very good chance to survive. Try them out, I am 100% sure both will still work when the game goes gold.
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Because the game was lagging like maple syrup on a cold day, there were 64 zoms around me, and I fell right into the thick of them?

I will give you that I didn't have a fallback base or position in my back pocket, fair enough.. But as far as a "impression" of them removing strategies..umm no. 100% obvious that's what they are doing.

Calling getting into a vehicle and bailing a "godlike"  strategy is just unrealistic.. Why even bother to have vehicles in that case? In fact why bother to have guns either? That's even more OP than having a vehicle..

The person who's letter I lifted to post here, laid out so many good points that would make the game more playable to more people.

If you actually read it, and understand what he is saying, you can see how it would be so much better balanced.

And if you added my suggestion of just using the difficulty slider to it's full potential, TFP's could literally make everybody happy at the same time...

1. if you are brand new, turn it down from default..no hordes, walking only etc.

2. if you are intermediate to advanced, but don't want vulture missiles, or other game breaking things like demo's leave it at default.

3. if you are advanced, and want all that stuff push it to insane.. 

How simple is that???

Now it's not like I expect a mod on their own forums to not have a bias, but you have to admit that would be a good, fair, and reasonable way to deal with everybody's gripes.

 
Demandred1957 said:
Because the game was lagging like maple syrup on a cold day, there were 64 zoms around me, and I fell right into the thick of them?

I will give you that I didn't have a fallback base or position in my back pocket, fair enough.. But as far as a "impression" of them removing strategies..umm no. 100% obvious that's what they are doing.

Calling getting into a vehicle and bailing a "godlike"  strategy is just unrealistic.. Why even bother to have vehicles in that case? In fact why bother to have guns either? That's even more OP than having a vehicle..

The person who's letter I lifted to post here, laid out so many good points that would make the game more playable to more people.

If you actually read it, and understand what he is saying, you can see how it would be so much better balanced.

And if you added my suggestion of just using the difficulty slider to it's full potential, TFP's could literally make everybody happy at the same time...

1. if you are brand new, turn it down from default..no hordes, walking only etc.

2. if you are intermediate to advanced, but don't want vulture missiles, or other game breaking things like demo's leave it at default.

3. if you are advanced, and want all that stuff push it to insane.. 

How simple is that???

Now it's not like I expect a mod on their own forums to not have a bias, but you have to admit that would be a good, fair, and reasonable way to deal with everybody's gripes.
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Not really, I dont think check boxes and knobs for every aspect of the game is a good thing.

Doing so would make it extremely difficult to create any sense of balance/progression.

I suppose if the game was just an open world sandbox with just a bunch of toys for players to use that might work...who knows, they may add such settings as they get closer to gold.

 
Demandred1957 said:
Because the game was lagging like maple syrup on a cold day, there were 64 zoms around me, and I fell right into the thick of them?

I will give you that I didn't have a fallback base or position in my back pocket, fair enough.. But as far as a "impression" of them removing strategies..umm no. 100% obvious that's what they are doing.

Calling getting into a vehicle and bailing a "godlike"  strategy is just unrealistic.. Why even bother to have vehicles in that case? In fact why bother to have guns either? That's even more OP than having a vehicle..

The person who's letter I lifted to post here, laid out so many good points that would make the game more playable to more people.

If you actually read it, and understand what he is saying, you can see how it would be so much better balanced.

And if you added my suggestion of just using the difficulty slider to it's full potential, TFP's could literally make everybody happy at the same time...

1. if you are brand new, turn it down from default..no hordes, walking only etc.

2. if you are intermediate to advanced, but don't want vulture missiles, or other game breaking things like demo's leave it at default.

3. if you are advanced, and want all that stuff push it to insane.. 

How simple is that???

Now it's not like I expect a mod on their own forums to not have a bias, but you have to admit that would be a good, fair, and reasonable way to deal with everybody's gripes.
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I'm not talking as a mod, this is just my personal opinion. First of all I think that TFP doesn't really use the difficulty setting to best effect yet, there should for example be automatically less food and ammo available at higher difficulties. But running away in a car, that would only be an option in a hypothetical story mode, which isn't going to happen in this game without much story.

TFP did deliberately remove the strategy of bailing with a 4x4 on horde night, I didn't want to say otherwise. I'm saying that you can't call that a legitimate strategy, it is an exploit, a god mode escape option. Similar to turning on debug mode whenever you feel endangered. 

Why are vehicles in the game? Are you seriously asking that? 🤔

If weapons are more OP than vehicles then why did you have to use a 4x4 on the horde night, you had weapons in your hand? 😉

 
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meganoth said:
I'm not talking as a mod, this is just my personal opinion. First of all I think that TFP doesn't really use the difficulty setting to best effect yet, there should for example be automatically less food and ammo available at higher difficulties. But running away in a car, that would only be an option in a hypothetical story mode, which isn't going to happen in this game without much story.

TFP did deliberately remove the strategy of bailing with a 4x4 on horde night, I didn't want to say otherwise. I'm saying that you can't call that a legitimate strategy, it is an exploit, a god mode escape option. Similar to turning on debug mode whenever you feel endangered. 

Why are vehicles in the game? Are you seriously asking that? 🤔

If weapons are more OP than vehicles then why did you have to use a 4x4 on the horde night, you had weapons in your hand? 😉
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Honestly if FPS is as bad as he mentioned...probably why the vehicle is there as there probably be no other way for him to survive on foot...

...it always amazes me when I see someone trying to do a horde night with choppy FPS.  Sucks all the fun out of the game.  Not everyone can afford a better PC or upgrades tho so probably just trying to make the most out of it.

 
Laz Man said:
Honestly if FPS is as bad as he mentioned...probably why the vehicle is there as there probably be no other way for him to survive on foot...

...it always amazes me when I see someone trying to do a horde night with choppy FPS.  Sucks all the fun out of the game.  Not everyone can afford a better PC or upgrades tho so probably just trying to make the most out of it.
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TFP can't balance the game for low FPS though.

I don't say Demandred shouldn't have used the 4x4. His game, he can do whatever he likes, including turning on god mode. This discussion is about what TFP should allow in the game, and allowing exploits because some people play on a weak PC? That would be a silly concept.

 
meganoth said:
TFP can't balance the game for low FPS though.

I don't say Demandred shouldn't have used the 4x4. His game, he can do whatever he likes, including turning on god mode. This discussion is about what TFP should allow in the game, and allowing exploits because some people play on a weak PC? That would be a silly concept.
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Agreed, was just pointing that out for context.

 
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