PC Make Crafted Items better than Looted

[Sydious]

Looting is the best way to go because it ties the reward to the higher risk. All the weapons in the game can be crafted with parts and materials that you get from the least challenging forms of content. If they were to make crafting yield the best items, they'd have to integrate materials that were obtained through challenging content.

That's fair.  But explain to me this.  How can you craft a simple level 1 9mm pistol with out looting the parts first?  Where do you get the ammo with out looting? How can you craft a cooking pot without learning to make a forge or looting the schem?  Is everything on an equal basis? 

 

[Kalen]

Looting is the best way to go because it ties the reward to the higher risk. All the weapons in the game can be crafted with parts and materials that you get from the least challenging forms of content. If they were to make crafting yield the best items, they'd have to integrate materials that were obtained through challenging content.

I'm not sure I understand.... you say you can craft with parts from the least challenging forms of content.... but looting the best items should come from the most challenging content.   What content are you talking about?   They all come from the same content.   If I need steel tools parts I scrap steel tools that I get from looting.  

 

[meganoth]

I will triple stamp your double stamp with two "easy" questions then...

Can you play through the game without ever crafting?

Can you play through the game without ever looting?

If the answer is not the same for both questions then it is not equal.

Hell, I'll even toss in a third question.

Can you craft without looting?

Danm, he knows the forgotten art of triple-stamping.

I don't think they have to be equal in everything.

Next someone says the trader should be equal to crafting and looting and that is why q6 or legendary weapons and all crafting materials you need should be available at the trader.

Or someone wants that looting should give you building materials in similar amounts to mining+crafting because ... parity. Surely not, if you want to build big, you need to mine and craft your building materials.

 

[Sydious]

Danm, he knows the forgotten art of triple-stamping.

I don't think they have to be equal in everything.

Next someone says the trader should be equal to crafting and looting and that is why q6 or legendary weapons and all crafting materials you need should be available at the trader.

Or someone wants that looting should give you building materials in similar amounts to mining+crafting because ... parity. Surely not, if you want to build big, you need to mine and craft your building materials.

I know we don't see eye to eye on this, and that is okay.  But, those are yes or no questions and you didn't answer.

I do see what you're saying, it's escalation.  But like I said before in multiple post...

7 Days To Die The Survival Horde Crafting Game.

Have we gone to bait and switch after all these years because TFP got a taste of money?

 

[MechanicalLens]

Unpopular opinions here perhaps, but in my opinion the system should simply go like this:

OPTION A

Gray + Orange items - never repairable

Yellow + Green Items - 1 repair only

Blue items - 2 repairs only

Purple items - 3 repairs only

OPTION B

Take repairing out of the game.

OPTION C

When repairing a weapon the task should take absolutely ages. It's highly unrealistic that anybody could fully repair their gun in a matter of seconds. In my opinion it should be done in the workbench and it should take about 20-30 in-game minutes. A bonus with this system is you will no longer be tempted to toss away all the high-tier weapons you find; you might end up using all of them during a horde night. This would bring back crafting in a big way, and will create a system where T6 items are no longer the end-all-be-all. On top of that, this will slow down the economy; no more making tens of thousands of dukes.

 

[Kalen]

Danm, he knows the forgotten art of triple-stamping.

I don't think they have to be equal in everything.

Next someone says the trader should be equal to crafting and looting and that is why q6 or legendary weapons and all crafting materials you need should be available at the trader.

Or someone wants that looting should give you building materials in similar amounts to mining+crafting because ... parity. Surely not, if you want to build big, you need to mine and craft your building materials.

There are multiple ways to play this game.... you can loot, you can build, you can craft, you can use the trader.... all are viable ways to play.   One thing that is pretty universal is you need gear.   Each play style should give you the opportunity to acquire this gear.   Right now, you can loot the best stuff, you can visit the trader for the best stuff, but you can't craft the best stuff.   I just think you should be able to.

 

[Novamourne]

They all come from the same content.

Essentially, yes, but technically, no. All content requires looting, but the degree of rewards that you get scale with how difficult the content is that you're doing. You can find weapons/weapon parts in small house. You can do low level quests and loot boxes will have parts for things that you get for little risk to your characters life. There's certainly a difficulty gradient when it comes to locations you can loot that you're either ignoring or unaware of. That gradient is the basis of my argument.

You can go into a town, clear all the little houses during the day (at little to no risk to you) and get all the parts you need to craft whatever you want to craft. The higher tier item rewards should come from the higher tier POIs and quests. I don't have a problem with crafting being on the same level, but the materials need to reflect that same level of risk to your character.

That's fair.  But explain to me this.  How can you craft a simple level 1 9mm pistol with out looting the parts first?  Where do you get the ammo with out looting? How can you craft a cooking pot without learning to make a forge or looting the schem?  Is everything on an equal basis?

My response covers this, too.

 

[Kalen]

Essentially, yes, but technically, no. All content requires looting, but the degree of rewards that you get scale with how difficult the content is that you're doing. You can find weapons/weapon parts in small house. You can do low level quests and loot boxes will have parts for things that you get for little risk to your characters life. There's certainly a difficulty gradient when it comes to locations you can loot that you're either ignoring or unaware of. That gradient is the basis of my argument.

I dont think thats correct.   A gun safe in a shack has the same loot as a gun safe in a shotgun messiah.   There has been talk that eventually, the harder areas will have better loot... but that isn't the case at the moment and may never be the case.

 

[Sydious]

 All content requires looting

I rest my case...

 

[Novamourne]

I rest my case...

You can rest your case there but the premise of your questioning and argument is still challenged by the remaining section of your quote. Not all looting is equal. That toilet in the burnt down house isn't giving you the same loot as the chest on top of Shamway.

 

[meganoth]

I know we don't see eye to eye on this, and that is okay.  But, those are yes or no questions and you didn't answer.

I do see what you're saying, it's escalation.  But like I said before in multiple post...

7 Days To Die The Survival Horde Crafting Game.

Have we gone to bait and switch after all these years because TFP got a taste of money?

I skipped answering because the answer would be as expected, crafting is not equal to looting.

You can play without looting, but it will cost you a huge effort to get enough money to buy some necessary items from the trader. You likewise can play this game without crafting but it will be much easier to skip crafting than looting.

You bring up the title of the game. Have you any reason to believe that the name means actually that all the parts of it have to be on equal footing? The name merely says that all parts are important ingredients in the mix, and that IS the case.

 

[Sydious]

 Not all looting is equal

I rest my case again...?.?.?

 

[MechanicalLens]

I skipped answering because the answer would be as expected, crafting is not equal to looting.

You can play without looting, but it will cost you a huge effort to get enough money to buy some necessary items from the trader. You likewise can play this game without crafting but it will be much easier to skip crafting than looting.

You bring up the title of the game. Have you any reason to believe that the name means actually that all the parts of it have to be on equal footing? The name merely says that all parts are important ingredients in the mix, and that IS the case.

I suppose you didn't read my previous post then? (Page 2, final paragraph of my post.)

 

[Sydious]

I skipped answering because the answer would be as expected, crafting is not equal to looting.

You can play without looting, but it will cost you a huge effort to get enough money to buy some necessary items from the trader. You likewise can play this game without crafting but it will be much easier to skip crafting than looting.

You bring up the title of the game. Have you any reason to believe that the name means actually that all the parts of it have to be on equal footing? The name merely says that all parts are important ingredients in the mix, and that IS the case.

Well I'm glad you admit it is not equal.

I'm glad you admit you can play without crafting.  Yes it takes effort, but not much lol.

Yes, I bring up the title of the game because I have had it since 2013 and love it and do NOT want it to turn into something that is crap like most EA games.

 

[Novamourne]

I rest my case again...?.?.?

Im beginning to think you don't have a case at all, tbh. There's nothing inconsistent with the things I've said. If you want to craft the best loot then you should have to put yourself at the same level of risk as where you'd find the best loot. Because not all loot is equal, you can find materials to craft in easy to survive environments so you shouldn't be able to craft the best loot. What's your case against that because it sounds like you understand and agree with my premise but you still want to disagree with me???

 

[Sydious]

You know what... UNCLE.

 

[meganoth]

OPTION C

When repairing a weapon the task should take absolutely ages. It's highly unrealistic that anybody could fully repair their gun in a matter of seconds. In my opinion it should be done in the workbench and it should take about 20-30 in-game minutes. A bonus with this system is you will no longer be tempted to toss away all the high-tier weapons you find; you might end up using all of them during a horde night. This would bring back crafting in a big way, and will create a system where T6 items are no longer the end-all-be-all. On top of that, this will slow down the economy; no more making tens of thousands of dukes.

I suppose you didn't read my previous post then? (Page 2, final paragraph of my post.)

I don't see how that has anything to do with my discussion with Sydious.

I don't really get warm with your idea. Sure, you have to take 2 replacement weapons for your main weapons with you but getting them is not a problem. I'm also not OCD about always having the bestest weapon with me, I'll kill zombies with a q5 weapon just fine even if I already found a q6 that is getting repaired at the moment. Making durability so weak that you have to switch weapons every half hour is a management nightmare. Sure, there is a positive effect for the economy, but the price in un-fun micromanagement is too high

 

[Kalen]

Im beginning to think you don't have a case at all, tbh. There's nothing inconsistent with the things I've said. If you want to craft the best loot then you should have to put yourself at the same level of risk as where you'd find the best loot. Because not all loot is equal, you can find materials to craft in easy to survive environments so you shouldn't be able to craft the best loot. What's your case against that because it sounds like you understand and agree with my premise but you still want to disagree with me???

Except you're wrong.... you can find a tier 6 item in a chest in a tiny little house... you don't have to go to the top of the shamway.   If you really want to restrict the best loot to the most challenging content, then remove it from looting as well as crafting.   You should restrict it to rewards for tier 5 trader quests.   

 

[meganoth]

Well I'm glad you admit it is not equal.

I'm glad you admit you can play without crafting.  Yes it takes effort, but not much lol.

Yes, I bring up the title of the game because I have had it since 2013 and love it and do NOT want it to turn into something that is crap like most EA games.

"but not much". Sorry, just playing singleplayer and I had to craft the wheels of my bicycle, otherwise I would still run around on foot. I was so happy to have found a workbench at the trader (10 days earlier I had a chance to buy a workbench schematic, then it would have been crafting workbench AND wheels). I also could have invested two points in INT and again, there would have been no way around crafting the workbench. I crafted my forge, practically impossible to go without a forge. I think I have not found a working forge anywhere, but could be wrong because I after building that forge I didn't need to look for it.

I crafted my  farm plots and some seeds, without that garden I would have to use half my money and half my time for procuring food instead of doing something useful with my time for the rest of the game. I crafted my campfire, without it I would have to run somewhere whenever I don't like to eat raw vegetables that bring 1 food

Hey, I can loot cement in sizable quantities in POIs. Do you know what use cement has if you don't have the ability to craft it into concrete? None at all. Building a horde base without concrete? Have fun, don't mind me exiting through the back entrance

Hell yeah, playing without crafting is possible for a masochist. I just don't think that theoretical way to shoot yourself into the foot has any practical application, except as a different way to play on insane.

 

[Roland]

@Sydious Name me a crafting game anywhere in which you don’t have to gather materials for the crafting. You like the term “looting” because it rhymes with “shooting”. But let’s be honest. In any game that involves crafting, part of the crafting is gathering mats and some gathering is going to be easier and some is going to be harder but it is not a simple is there more gathering or more crafting. They are connected. 
 

The real problem is that as you gather resources you have a good chance of finding the very item you want to craft or that you just crafted and that item could be better Than what you can make which takes the wind out of your sales. 
 

If 98% of everything found in containers was brown with only a 2% chance of finding something better, then orange, yellow, green, and blue would be the domain of crafting With very little chance that anything found would one-up what you made. 
 

The devs have moved in this direction and hopefully they will continue shifting.