PC The AI need to evolve in order for this game to survive.

I would like this thread and the thread about how it totally sucks that wedge tips were nerfed to get together in the octagon for a deathmatch.

 
iejen said:
I have seen this post so many times over the years.....

First of all, why the hell do you care how someone else plays the game? 

And if you don't like how other play, play alone. 

And if you want to play MP but people must play the same like you, host a server yourself. 

People brake the rules, you ban them. 

Especially on a MP server I  fool the AI once in a while. 
I have a job and a family, I can play like 1/2 hours a day max. 

If I log in every 7th days for a few days in a row, trust me. I will trick the AI. I don't have the resources nor the time to gather them. 

But in A19 the loot drops are good from blood moon and so is the EXP. 

So if people keep tricking them, have fun wil progressing slowly. 

Anyway, that's my side. 

Byeeeeeeeeeeee

- Iejen
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Exactly.

 
Scyris said:
They only struggled if they sucked, I'm sorry to say it but its true, when I started, I never had any real issues even as a new player. I've never starved to death, or dehydrated to death, if you did manage to do that my hats off to you, as with all the food sources I don't even know how the hell you managed that. I started in a9 or 10, and went in blind, it also was my first survival game.

Sadly with the way 7dtd is setup exploiting the AI is pretty much the game in terms of horde night. They chew thru blocks way to fast for punching with their bare hands, I 've personally always found it really REALLY stupid how a zombie can punch thru stone, it should destroy their hands and blow their arms off.

On the AI, what the hell do you want man? they are zombies, zombies are not smart. They are only deadly in large numbers the problem is the numbers are never high enough in the game. IMO cities/towns should be packed with TONS of zombies on the street, enough that its a real fight to manage to clear enough to get into a poi, with there being far less of them outside of towns/cities.

Honestly I miss when we had a choice to bother with horde night, I used to like my underground bases, if I wanted to fight the bloodmoon horde I could, or I could ignore it entirely if I so wanted. Me? I often ignored it, not because I can't kill them, but because its a waste of resources and it just jumps my gamestage, making everything else more annoying. To this day I still rarely bother with the bloodmoon mechanic as its just not worth the waste of resources just for exp I can get anywhere else for cheaper due to sneak attacks and such.
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This is a lot like how I play; I loved having a secure, underground base and go up and clear off the remnants after the horde amassed.  It also defeats the point of building a base out of steel or concrete when a zombie destroys it with a few whacks.  I could see that with wood frames, but there should be no way that a zombie can smash through a vault door.

Granted, I also hate the vomiting zombies, screaming zombies, spider zombies, and exploding zombies.  They seem completely unrealistic and take the fun out of my survival landscape.  I will be modding them out as soon as I can with this version.

The zombie homing AI has always bothered me; how can they hear my forge running down at the center of the Earth; it's roughly 100 stories down in some cases, yet they still dig for it and smash away at my hatch.

 
With the current state of how zombies are balanced, these exploits are the only way the game can function at higher levels of difficulty and play.

Zombies are @%$*#!ing architects that know the exact perfect path to break through your base in order to perfectly collapse it or reach you. They know exactly how to avoid most non-ranged traps unless you just make an outright wall of them that cannot be avoided. They break blocks so fast (especially at higher levels + difficulties) that it is physically impossible for you to "weather the storm" in many cases, especially once you start getting high concentrations of cops and demolishers. Either you perfectly deflect the storm with an exploit base or severely overpowered gear, or you get demolished and potentially weeks of in-game work is destroyed in one night. So people turn to one of two things: Exploiting the AI with nonsensical builds, or getting in their vehicle and driving away after ~5 minutes and just driving for the entire night.

I don't think it's possible to really "improve" the AI unless something is significantly changed about horde night balancing. Either it would make horde nights completely impossible, or would render your average nights unfun snorefests where you crouch there and afk for however long your nights are set to because if you do anything you'll draw a horde to your base and have to spend a ton of time fixing the damage.

 
Teacyn said:
Either you perfectly deflect the storm with an exploit base or severely overpowered gear, or you get demolished and potentially weeks of in-game work is destroyed in one night.
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There are options in between these extremes. I have seen them with my own eyes.

 
NO i personally dont think the AI should be changed zombies are meant o be dumb not resident evil levels of genius you want a harder game go play a mod for the game theres several that make the base game Alot harder. Im sick of people whining about not liking something and it ruins it for those of us that like the game the way it is

 
Dracula said:
it's roughly 100 stories down in some cases, yet they still dig for it and smash away at my hatch.
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How are you building your bunker? Right below your hatch? If so then your doing it wrong. I set mine away from hatch and have never had zombir beat on my hatch, unless he was following me when I went thru it. 

My first playthrough on A19 was bunker and had no issues, until I got chunk error(I called it cave in, in game) and it was all gone.

 
It is getting better. I whacked a dog upside the head it ran off and waited until I was engaged with a z before attacking again. First time I've seen that. I think the zombie AI is working just fine. They're not supposed to be very smart and they're only dangerous when your unable to maneuver or there are a lot of them.

 
The zeds should be more unpredictable. 

Not just everybody to attack the weakest spot.

Also they should run around the player if they are in a group. Or just attack the player. 

Also, other cool additions like climbing... 

We'll see. The new special infected zeds are coming, and with them massive changes in AI

 
Making "smart" AI and getting rid of UMA really killed this game pve wise. Remember times where you could have 100+ archetypes (different looking zombies wearing different sets of clothing) and above 200+ of them on screen same time? Yeah, it is not there anymore.

Edit: Ah yeah, also remember making crossbowmen / rocket launching zombies that actually worked?


(crappier example, but you could adjust dmg etc.)

 
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It is the same discussion over and over. If you want to exploit hordenight, just turn it off.
Fixing exploits is fataals job after all! And I am thankful how much he has improved them from A18.

Look here

Anyone claiming that exploits are the fault of the user are either drunk or have not thought about the implication.
YES it is an alpha and I do not blame TFPs for the game not beeing perfect. But what I am talking about is people complaining that exploits got removed.
IT IS A SURVIVAL GAME WITH HORDENIGHTS AS THE MAIN FOCUS! If you dislike the hordenight just deactivate it.

But if someone is trying to challenge themselves and exploits are easily possible, then the challenge becomes meaningless. "Not using" it is like handicapping yourself to make it harder. It makes no sense, since all the joy you would get from getting over the challenge hinges on you, not the game anymore.


I DON'T CARE HOW YOU PLAY! I just don't want MY game to be full of exploits, since it is not a challenge anymore. If you want to deactivate hordenight, thats fine with me. But don't complain that the devs try to keep up the challenge. Go play minecraft if you dislike survival please. It sounds meaner than it is meant to be. But exploits are a sideproduct of such a complex world. THEY ARE NOT A FEATURE YOU CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT WHEN IT IS REMOVED!!!

 
Deanster said:
When the game came out people were constantly struggling to survive and barely holding it, this is how the game was meant to be played, then some smartass found a way to exploit the AI and of course youtubers and streamers help spread the dirt for their own gains, and ever since it has not been a survival game, we see pyramids and moats all over built to exploit the weakness in the ai,  i propose we do the same they did with conan when people did that, we evolve the ai.

And the way to do this is make them able to climb fast and also jump enough for them to never be trapped or stuck in places, if they can do that then people have no way to to exploit the ai like now, they will have to put in the hard work or die. I'm sick and tired of seeing people hide behind their cheat buildings, it's time to evolve the ai so people can see how its meant to be played, not locked safely behind a building but keeping the ai at bay with teamwork and dedication like before.

You can still however funnel or delay them enough to survive, that is the point of the game not to exploit the ai.
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Allow me to introduce myself, Im currently learning how to break the A19 ai and I do this on every patch this game has made. :D
Currently, if you actually make zeds fall 2 blocks via stairs, you can actually manage to make them fall off your tower and run back up without triggering the 'fall protocol' which is stand up and attack foundation till despawned. (With bonus block damage)

Thing is, in IRL zeds would be just as dumb if not even worse. :D  Pathing the zeds like we do is not just smart its common sense. You wouldnt want to risk your life defending an unsafe location would you!? :D

Be happy! The A19 ai changes made it so you have to allow them to path to you or else they just merc your base. :D   :D   :D  Too bad ai is still hella abusable and were nerfed to about 33% HP lmfao

Zeds wont even path a single block jump now unless the player is DIRECTLY within reach after the jump. OTherwise, they ignore and break thru walls instead.

The reason the AI improves at all is because they can watch us break it and adapt their stategy to ours. Its a very long and involved game we play.
Did you even consider how many dozens of hours and time it takes to learn AI pathing without reading the code for it? lololol.
We do the work you hate to improve the thing you love. x'D

PS: I file ai abuses as bugs when confirmed. :p

 
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Dethar said:
How are you building your bunker? Right below your hatch? If so then your doing it wrong. I set mine away from hatch and have never had zombir beat on my hatch, unless he was following me when I went thru it. 

My first playthrough on A19 was bunker and had no issues, until I got chunk error(I called it cave in, in game) and it was all gone.
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It used to have a shorter lead-in; now that I give it a city-block length pathway it works fine now that I've built a solid block tunnel/structure underground instead of a "cave" but I'll still find zombies digging at my base area on horde night.

I like to wait for them to all spawn in then get them to follow me in a conga line and snipe them off trying to get as many with the same shot as possible.

 
Viktoriusiii said:
Go play minecraft if you dislike survival please.
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LOL...a game where broken exploits to farm hostiles with zero risk become Jira bug reports actively fixed by developers! "Hey, I can't trick Creepers into spawning into this tiny room where my traps kill them any more!"

"Bug #5572 has been logged."

 
Too much conga and i agree with the guy who said it was more fun when they came from all sides. Is it not possible to get a high % of the Zs to* enter destroy all mode as a default instead of when their pathing is broken?

 
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I understand the ai is pretty dumb most of the time but dude if you're complaining about the cheat bases DONT USE them it's that simple, instead of looking at all the many flaws enjoy the game for what it is, who cares what other people are building to get views, and they are dumb zombies they shouldnt be able to jump and climb like spiders that would ruin the game you would never be able to get away from them. If there's a game there will me hacks, cheats, mods etc, don't ruin the game because you're not happy with an exploit.

 
If they could just tear through bases like warm butter and climb anything and just topple the base you've worked so hard on with ease it would present the opposite problem and a lot of people would hate it. It would completely ruin the tower defense style aspect of horde night. if you don't like ai exploits then don't do it. or find or make a server where others feel the same as you. i have been building the same style bases since I started on a10 or so. a beefy tower surrounded by spikes or a moat where i shoot down at them. It gets damaged and I have fun on horde nights. that's what I enjoy so thats what I do. Do you think that if there were zombies in real life people wouldn't exploit their lack of intelligence?

 
Deanster said:
When the game came out people were constantly struggling to survive and barely holding it, this is how the game was meant to be played, then some smartass found a way to exploit the AI and of course youtubers and streamers help spread the dirt for their own gains, and ever since it has not been a survival game, we see pyramids and moats all over built to exploit the weakness in the ai,  i propose we do the same they did with conan when people did that, we evolve the ai.

And the way to do this is make them able to climb fast and also jump enough for them to never be trapped or stuck in places, if they can do that then people have no way to to exploit the ai like now, they will have to put in the hard work or die. I'm sick and tired of seeing people hide behind their cheat buildings, it's time to evolve the ai so people can see how its meant to be played, not locked safely behind a building but keeping the ai at bay with teamwork and dedication like before.

You can still however funnel or delay them enough to survive, that is the point of the game not to exploit the ai.
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Then why even build anything. What you are proposing would make any base made in this game absolutely pointless. All the time and effort to gather resources would be supreme futility. If they never get stuck and jump enough to never be trapped how do you propose to funnel or delay them, genius? Anything you build as an obstacle will be hurdled in a single bound with the super powers you want to give them!

So do we need to start some super soldier program for animals in the real world because hunters have been exploiting their habits and patterns for centuries?

Figuring out a preys tendencies and using it against them is actually how hunting works and is one of the reasons why the human race has thrived throughout history. Really think it applies here as well. Its just common sense.

Complaining about how someone else plays the game and claiming it ruins your experience is the most entitled thing I have ever heard anyone say. Your experience is defined by what you do. Not Charlie down the street. If you are not enjoying your game experience you need to change what you do. I envision you standing outside on your street yelling at the neighbors claiming the color they painted their house is ruining your experience, and or, happiness in yours. Get over yourself, dude!

Lastly, I will actually one up you using your own argument structure. I propose that a game that lets a rotting flesh hand punch through concrete and steel is actually exploiting the players and throws the game into unrealistic territory.

 
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