Black Hat
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PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary
- Thread starter madmole
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MechanicalLens
New member
I've noticed an interesting change in zombie behavior when you are underground mining. At least with one zombie (I am unsure about groups), as long as you are moving around a little, it won't dig down to the player. It'll dig briefly, and then get back up and run to the player's current location. I was mining for an entire night just below the surface with a zombie above my head, and it repeated this pattern over and over, even now.
BeatKitano
New member
Yes please. Early game 7d2d is best game imo (and has been for as long as I played the game so since A16), so the longer (without feeling like it's stretching it) you can make the early game, the better.
Matt 1977
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BeatKitano
New member
That's super cool to read because I didn't mine much in A18 (too annoyed with zombies digging straight down to me even when being absolutely quiet and not moving).
FileMachete
New member
@Khalagar , can't recall if you mentioned already seeing the Reach Gaming video on YT where he & RJ test the Junk Sledge against day 56 horde, with maxed perks, so just in case you haven't; https://youtu.be/eRWTNEs_-CQ
MechanicalLens
New member
Fort Sage is coming along nicely.
Took me ages to gather all this cobblestone. Eventually this will be my horde base.Inspiration comes from the one and only Madmole.
Adam the Waster
Well-known member
my Fort is a old trailer found near trader joel (it has a cow skull on it!)
Fort Sage is coming along nicely.
Inspiration comes from the one and only Madmole.
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SnowDog1942
Navezgane's Perv
FileMachete
New member
There's been a fair bit of drama around here during the night. Sirens, lights and such. No sleep for me so the following is a mess. Reader beware heh.
While of course I have no idea what TFPs ultimate ideal stamina balance is, it's clear that whatever balance is found during the closed phase of recent new alpha coding and testing, stamina winds up being more punishing on release than where it winds up after it's been stable for a point release or so.
I expect I'm missing something in the overall, but these bits combined confuse me somewhat;
1) All Tools and Weapons have individual stamina costs. Obvious yes. Allows for Sledges to have very high cost vs a knife.
2) Player gathered materials, wood, stone, ores, etc., are basically worthless to sell to traders.
3) Zombie block damage is higher than it was (a16) so Wood or Flagstone horde bases are not really a viable option.
Assuming no exploits, player defended w low tech weapons, and not spending majority of week cutting wood for a vast spike field. I have watched MechanicalLens' first horde night vid, 7x7 solid cobblestone tower with bar overhangs, and zeds didn't break even one block. Mech had a number of pipebombs & molotovs and a T1 double barrel & T1 Pistol (not used) plus a number of zeds focused on the jump-gap access structure that allowed for some nice clustered pipebomb shots. And obviously Mech's a veteran player.
4) Point of 3 is that Cobblestone is bare minimum, and I'll cheery pick a couple bits from MMs recent post about his current game;
"I'm on day 12, another shotgun build. I have my 7x7 tower with r concrete up 4 layers and iron bars are almost finished"
<<I'm guessing he's forged a fair bit of Iron for Bars: takes 530 Iron Ingots for a single wide wrap of a 7x7>>
"I already made over 4k concrete mix all from loot!"
4a) Between getting enough iron (6000?) for several hundred ingots (assumption), and shoveling all the blue bags for Cobblestone (assumption, could be building w wet concrete), and shoveling all that POI bagged cement, plus either scrapping POI cobblestone for 4000 stone or mining it (I think he mentioned he hasn't done any stone mining?) also needed 4000 sand to make 4k concrete mix.
Could also be having good luck at Trader and buying most/all? cobblestone used. 1000 Cobblestone scraps down to 750 Stone but maybe it's more abundant in A19?
4b) Sry, got sidetracked with particulars. Point is MM has done a fair bit of at least shovel work. And he mentions how good the shotgun is, "once you get STR up there", so the stamina/food/drink cost may not be a major issue with a Strength build. Or could be his knowledge of what to drink & eat, and when, etc.
5) Regardless of character build template, they all need to be able to fight the horde, and have a chance to survive, during blood moons.
Even 'crazy' templates shouldn't result in guaranteed bm failure. Keep in mind recent discussions of being able to pick up and use any weapon.
6) Could easily disconnect 'mining' centric perks from Strength into their own tree, or into stand alone bits. Sure they make sense under Strength, but"Gameplay trumps realism".
7) The Building aspect of 7dtd seems to be a significant attraction for new players. I know building and a voxel world were the two biggest initial draws for me.
8.) Current meta of just using up a POI for a horde night base, while valid, doesn't seem like a thing to be encouraged, at least to me. So, (again my opinion) it would seem to be beneficial to support players building their own horde night bases.
9) Honest question: What's the downside if a player gathers a bunch of materials early game? Other than Flag/Cobble there's nothing you can do with them without the workstations. Along with crafting times there's also the Heat Map mechanic available to temper workstation useage.
For oldtimers think back a couple few alphas. How many working stations were in the average world? Wrenches? How long till you had/found a Forge, Workbench & a Mixer? Much less a Minibike? Or a dang Mining Helmet (argh!..)?
Downside 1) break many blocks, make mucho xp. fix=lower xp gained from breaking blocks
Downside 2) players can break into safes too easily. really...? anyone using a stone axe to crack a 5000 hp safe would chew it open if that's all they had
Downside 3) players won't burn through all their food. ..kinda got me there. can't recall what the food burn is in 18.4 for an all night pickaxe mining session. will say the food consumption for a 'normal' day out looting is pretty low, but I'm all guns, drugs (healing) & motorcycle.
Anyway. I'm not saying that day 1 we should be able to pick up any shovel/pick and just endlessly swing.
Don't want it to take 50 swings of a stoneaxe to break a 500 hp stone block, and exhaust stamina every 4 swings either.
Final bit: I'd prefer to see things balanced to fit TFPs goals food usage goals that also supported 'builders' _not_ spec'ing so heavily into Strength.
That's a nice clear way of putting it, imo, and I agree.
While of course I have no idea what TFPs ultimate ideal stamina balance is, it's clear that whatever balance is found during the closed phase of recent new alpha coding and testing, stamina winds up being more punishing on release than where it winds up after it's been stable for a point release or so.
I expect I'm missing something in the overall, but these bits combined confuse me somewhat;
1) All Tools and Weapons have individual stamina costs. Obvious yes. Allows for Sledges to have very high cost vs a knife.
2) Player gathered materials, wood, stone, ores, etc., are basically worthless to sell to traders.
3) Zombie block damage is higher than it was (a16) so Wood or Flagstone horde bases are not really a viable option.
Assuming no exploits, player defended w low tech weapons, and not spending majority of week cutting wood for a vast spike field. I have watched MechanicalLens' first horde night vid, 7x7 solid cobblestone tower with bar overhangs, and zeds didn't break even one block. Mech had a number of pipebombs & molotovs and a T1 double barrel & T1 Pistol (not used) plus a number of zeds focused on the jump-gap access structure that allowed for some nice clustered pipebomb shots. And obviously Mech's a veteran player.
4) Point of 3 is that Cobblestone is bare minimum, and I'll cheery pick a couple bits from MMs recent post about his current game;
"I'm on day 12, another shotgun build. I have my 7x7 tower with r concrete up 4 layers and iron bars are almost finished"
<<I'm guessing he's forged a fair bit of Iron for Bars: takes 530 Iron Ingots for a single wide wrap of a 7x7>>
"I already made over 4k concrete mix all from loot!"
4a) Between getting enough iron (6000?) for several hundred ingots (assumption), and shoveling all the blue bags for Cobblestone (assumption, could be building w wet concrete), and shoveling all that POI bagged cement, plus either scrapping POI cobblestone for 4000 stone or mining it (I think he mentioned he hasn't done any stone mining?) also needed 4000 sand to make 4k concrete mix.
Could also be having good luck at Trader and buying most/all? cobblestone used. 1000 Cobblestone scraps down to 750 Stone but maybe it's more abundant in A19?
4b) Sry, got sidetracked with particulars. Point is MM has done a fair bit of at least shovel work. And he mentions how good the shotgun is, "once you get STR up there", so the stamina/food/drink cost may not be a major issue with a Strength build. Or could be his knowledge of what to drink & eat, and when, etc.
5) Regardless of character build template, they all need to be able to fight the horde, and have a chance to survive, during blood moons.
Even 'crazy' templates shouldn't result in guaranteed bm failure. Keep in mind recent discussions of being able to pick up and use any weapon.
6) Could easily disconnect 'mining' centric perks from Strength into their own tree, or into stand alone bits. Sure they make sense under Strength, but"Gameplay trumps realism".
7) The Building aspect of 7dtd seems to be a significant attraction for new players. I know building and a voxel world were the two biggest initial draws for me.
8.) Current meta of just using up a POI for a horde night base, while valid, doesn't seem like a thing to be encouraged, at least to me. So, (again my opinion) it would seem to be beneficial to support players building their own horde night bases.
9) Honest question: What's the downside if a player gathers a bunch of materials early game? Other than Flag/Cobble there's nothing you can do with them without the workstations. Along with crafting times there's also the Heat Map mechanic available to temper workstation useage.
For oldtimers think back a couple few alphas. How many working stations were in the average world? Wrenches? How long till you had/found a Forge, Workbench & a Mixer? Much less a Minibike? Or a dang Mining Helmet (argh!..)?
Downside 1) break many blocks, make mucho xp. fix=lower xp gained from breaking blocks
Downside 2) players can break into safes too easily. really...? anyone using a stone axe to crack a 5000 hp safe would chew it open if that's all they had
Downside 3) players won't burn through all their food. ..kinda got me there. can't recall what the food burn is in 18.4 for an all night pickaxe mining session. will say the food consumption for a 'normal' day out looting is pretty low, but I'm all guns, drugs (healing) & motorcycle.
Anyway. I'm not saying that day 1 we should be able to pick up any shovel/pick and just endlessly swing.
Don't want it to take 50 swings of a stoneaxe to break a 500 hp stone block, and exhaust stamina every 4 swings either.
Final bit: I'd prefer to see things balanced to fit TFPs goals food usage goals that also supported 'builders' _not_ spec'ing so heavily into Strength.
Kosmic Kerman
New member
The reddit post said it was their first Tier 2 quest. I'm not sure where you are getting "Day 1" from. TFP have already said the Traders aren't using levelled loot yet and are aware of the imbalance. Also, that player was not playing vanilla and was using mods. There's no way to know if any of the mods affected trader rewards.
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Jugginator
Moderator
Ah whoops lol my bad. Someone linked it to me and I didn't investigate further
It was like 3 am lol
Jay_ombie
New member
Loving the gore, and decapitations are well more frequent now just as I hoped for with a zombie game.
The zombies and environment on the fly reactive physics are excellent, again so much wanted this and here we get it.
I was wondering if you could apply floppy physics to the crawler (plus on the others would be cool), that would make its entrails look way more slinky like.
A19 - is so slick.
The zombies and environment on the fly reactive physics are excellent, again so much wanted this and here we get it.
I was wondering if you could apply floppy physics to the crawler (plus on the others would be cool), that would make its entrails look way more slinky like.
A19 - is so slick.
Jost Amman
Well-known member
I read people on Steam complaining about the injuries effect duration.
I think they got a point since new players can easily get discouraged if they break a leg and rage-quit asking for a refund.
I was thinking that maybe the duration could scale with the difficulty level. For example when at default difficulty the minor injuries could last around 2 mins, moderate would last 10 mins and major around 20 mins, while if you play on harder settings they could scale +25% per level or something.
What do you think?
I think they got a point since new players can easily get discouraged if they break a leg and rage-quit asking for a refund.
I was thinking that maybe the duration could scale with the difficulty level. For example when at default difficulty the minor injuries could last around 2 mins, moderate would last 10 mins and major around 20 mins, while if you play on harder settings they could scale +25% per level or something.
What do you think?
MechanicalLens
New member
I don't know if it was possible in A18, but in A19 you can scrap cement down to 3/4 of its ratio in stone. I hit up several barns and construction sites within the first week and gathered up all the cement pallets to scrap into... I think I got 2 stacks of stone from all of that? Plus I went small with this base; the inside ring is only flagstone and not cobblestone (double thick walls), since my current base that I'm working on is just chewing through my resources.
Also, I would hardly call myself a veteran. Haha. I've known about the game and followed it through content creators on YouTube since A10 or A11, but I only started playing myself when A17 EXP came around.
MajorMunchy
New member
with how bad the loot is for trader quests, he had a t2 sniper for 600 tokens lvl 1, and i did quests and rounded up (idk how) over 450 rounds so horde night i ran arounf with that...something tells me they will fix that?There's been a fair bit of drama around here during the night. Sirens, lights and such. No sleep for me so the following is a mess. Reader beware heh.
That's a nice clear way of putting it, imo, and I agree.
While of course I have no idea what TFPs ultimate ideal stamina balance is, it's clear that whatever balance is found during the closed phase of recent new alpha coding and testing, stamina winds up being more punishing on release than where it winds up after it's been stable for a point release or so.
I expect I'm missing something in the overall, but these bits combined confuse me somewhat;
1) All Tools and Weapons have individual stamina costs. Obvious yes. Allows for Sledges to have very high cost vs a knife.
2) Player gathered materials, wood, stone, ores, etc., are basically worthless to sell to traders.
3) Zombie block damage is higher than it was (a16) so Wood or Flagstone horde bases are not really a viable option.
Assuming no exploits, player defended w low tech weapons, and not spending majority of week cutting wood for a vast spike field. I have watched MechanicalLens' first horde night vid, 7x7 solid cobblestone tower with bar overhangs, and zeds didn't break even one block. Mech had a number of pipebombs & molotovs and a T1 double barrel & T1 Pistol (not used) plus a number of zeds focused on the jump-gap access structure that allowed for some nice clustered pipebomb shots. And obviously Mech's a veteran player.
4) Point of 3 is that Cobblestone is bare minimum, and I'll cheery pick a couple bits from MMs recent post about his current game;
"I'm on day 12, another shotgun build. I have my 7x7 tower with r concrete up 4 layers and iron bars are almost finished"
<<I'm guessing he's forged a fair bit of Iron for Bars: takes 530 Iron Ingots for a single wide wrap of a 7x7>>
"I already made over 4k concrete mix all from loot!"
4a) Between getting enough iron (6000?) for several hundred ingots (assumption), and shoveling all the blue bags for Cobblestone (assumption, could be building w wet concrete), and shoveling all that POI bagged cement, plus either scrapping POI cobblestone for 4000 stone or mining it (I think he mentioned he hasn't done any stone mining?) also needed 4000 sand to make 4k concrete mix.
Could also be having good luck at Trader and buying most/all? cobblestone used. 1000 Cobblestone scraps down to 750 Stone but maybe it's more abundant in A19?
4b) Sry, got sidetracked with particulars. Point is MM has done a fair bit of at least shovel work. And he mentions how good the shotgun is, "once you get STR up there", so the stamina/food/drink cost may not be a major issue with a Strength build. Or could be his knowledge of what to drink & eat, and when, etc.
5) Regardless of character build template, they all need to be able to fight the horde, and have a chance to survive, during blood moons.
Even 'crazy' templates shouldn't result in guaranteed bm failure. Keep in mind recent discussions of being able to pick up and use any weapon.
6) Could easily disconnect 'mining' centric perks from Strength into their own tree, or into stand alone bits. Sure they make sense under Strength, but"Gameplay trumps realism".
7) The Building aspect of 7dtd seems to be a significant attraction for new players. I know building and a voxel world were the two biggest initial draws for me.
8.) Current meta of just using up a POI for a horde night base, while valid, doesn't seem like a thing to be encouraged, at least to me. So, (again my opinion) it would seem to be beneficial to support players building their own horde night bases.
9) Honest question: What's the downside if a player gathers a bunch of materials early game? Other than Flag/Cobble there's nothing you can do with them without the workstations. Along with crafting times there's also the Heat Map mechanic available to temper workstation useage.
For oldtimers think back a couple few alphas. How many working stations were in the average world? Wrenches? How long till you had/found a Forge, Workbench & a Mixer? Much less a Minibike? Or a dang Mining Helmet (argh!..)?
Downside 1) break many blocks, make mucho xp. fix=lower xp gained from breaking blocks
Downside 2) players can break into safes too easily. really...? anyone using a stone axe to crack a 5000 hp safe would chew it open if that's all they had
Downside 3) players won't burn through all their food. ..kinda got me there. can't recall what the food burn is in 18.4 for an all night pickaxe mining session. will say the food consumption for a 'normal' day out looting is pretty low, but I'm all guns, drugs (healing) & motorcycle.
Anyway. I'm not saying that day 1 we should be able to pick up any shovel/pick and just endlessly swing.
Don't want it to take 50 swings of a stoneaxe to break a 500 hp stone block, and exhaust stamina every 4 swings either.
Final bit: I'd prefer to see things balanced to fit TFPs goals food usage goals that also supported 'builders' _not_ spec'ing so heavily into Strength.
Other issues/beneifts..?
• Finding 300+ BRASS in trash?? wtf lol
• SO...MUCH...GUNPOWDER (intended?)
• Parts are a lot harder to come by
• Traders being specialized is so nice. makes me actually travel
• If you havent, there are lots of mods already for a19 (check em out)
• exp gain seems slower
• Tools use? TFP explain this, why does a wrench in which you PHYSICALLY move, cost MORE stamina...then a Impact Driver you PRESS a BUTTON...
Ex - lvl 2 wrench = 45 harvest dmg and 20 stamina vs lvl 1 impact 66 harvest dmg and 26 stamina. Yes it harvests more, but i believe and think many will agree, make the recipe for a impact have a battery in it and make it used like the auger?
• Repair kits are getting too generic. We need it more diverse to something even liek a weapons kit, armor kit, tool kit etc...idk why i need a repair kit to repair my cloth armor FYI LOL cant i just slap some cloth on it? didn't think i need some screwdrivers and wrenches for that...
• Zombie head trackign is so....fake like! They jsut watch me so perfectly like puppets and it needs to be more natural
• the new blood splatter is from a cartoon game or something it needs to be toned down from bright licqorice to something natural....who colored it? weird...
All in all, great update but DANG some moronic/weird stuff is happening in A19 now that makes 0 sense
lord_ahriman
Member
Interesting. I hope they changed screamer's behavior as well: in A18, underground mining she could sense and hear me so she would call reinforcements; harvesting my tree farm (6 blocks high), she could sense and hear me, but no reinforcement being called.
You look at sex.rex but in the first week miner69 seems to me the more important perk here. Because miner actually decreases stamina use (and therefore food use) while sex.rex only allows you to expend it faster (AFAIK, I don't have the game near me to check). And in the first week food is a major concern
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MajorMunchy
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