PC Announcing: A19 Streamer Weekend Application

[meganoth]

3 days. Some of you get worked up about a 3 days promontional event! Would you be happier if TFP blew aways one third of their development money for advertisements instead, in gaming magazines, trade shows and to hire streamers for money?

How many additional POIs and book series in the game is it worth to you that some streamers don't get this weekend? Please be selfish, and hope this weekend is a success because a lot of the additional sales go into development again.

Some numbers from other games: Since Star Citizien's numbers are public we can take them as example. In 2018 they had expenses for salaries 33 mio. and marketing 9 mio. They have a unique marketing model in that they do most of it themselves. I heard of AAA studios blowing away up to half the expenses for marketing (but I'm not sure how dependable those numbers are). Now you want TFP to give up a very cheap marketing method and literally waste money to pay some top streamers or magazines instead of making more POIs or other features.

 

[Copendub]

I agree with meganoth its like a very small blimp of the beginning of the alpha. Do you ever see people blabbing on about the early stream event 4-6 months after once its done and over and everyone has the alpha? no its long gone from people memories and focused on other things until the next early stream event is being planned. You guys can complain about it all you want, but that isn't going to change anything. They set a standard and usually tfp are pretty strict about the standards they set. They don't have to do an early stream event at all. They could just make everyone wait. At least with the streamers you get to watch them play for a few days and get hyped to play vs just waiting till Monday anyways. 

 

[Adam the Waster]

so does this mean that it is coming soon?

 

[meganoth]

so does this mean that it is coming soon?

Its done when its done

 

[jetblackscarab]

I agree with meganoth its like a very small blimp of the beginning of the alpha. Do you ever see people blabbing on about the early stream event 4-6 months after once its done and over and everyone has the alpha? no its long gone from people memories and focused on other things until the next early stream event is being planned. You guys can complain about it all you want, but that isn't going to change anything. They set a standard and usually tfp are pretty strict about the standards they set. They don't have to do an early stream event at all. They could just make everyone wait. At least with the streamers you get to watch them play for a few days and get hyped to play vs just waiting till Monday anyways. 

Three days, a week, a month, a year. Does it matter to me how the rules are set? Not really, look I get that from a marketing standpoint its a power move, no doubt about it. But using some of the standpoints stated I hope to at the very least bring the statement home.

||"I want to emphasize that this is NOT a contest. If you meet the requirements, you qualify. So go ahead and do the announcement and release it if you qualify."||

||"We encourage you to do all you can to hype up and advertise your channel to get your followers/ subscriptions up to the minimum amount. If you don’t reach the goal for A19, we plan to do this again for A20 and we’ll welcome your participation for that event."||

Even though you need a certain amount of followers people are having be told the only way they can get access is if they hype up an update. Which honestly that's passively competitive rather than seeking out popular influencers who you know play the game and play it for many hours. What companies do have to pay for or in some cases they just have the cult following to begin with and announce the update to the news feeds or open a promotional event that can be controlled at the flick of a switch. With even questioning people I've come across with these two sentences I got more than I care to admit of negative responses. Again, people are more interested in waiting those days than having to watch someone play it for them. All the more power too them, but in the same response you'll get people who will buy the game find out they can't play it like they see on those streams. Admittedly will refund the game back in response which in turn will lose its flavor of marketing. And if this idea is what is going to happen every subsequent update then yeah you'll either start stretching that update to more than just three days and continue doing this till either people ignore those streamers and wait it out, you see little to no change in revenue, or you eventually stop and go back to the drawing board.

||"We actually want people who have played before and know what they're doing when they show A19."||

Yet people who have maybe played the game as a time killer, or they helped fund the game during it's infancy don't get the same justice? While I agree its a bold power move alot of these streamers can't play the game retroactively I'm a variety "artsy-fartsy" kinda guy so you won't see me stick to one game for long. Then there are some who do keep to a pallet of games. Maybe 7D2D is one of those games, then again what if some of the streamers elected will stop playing the game after the update goes live for everyone else? You can't know that for sure and if the next update they only do 2 hours worth and never bother with the next one or maybe they will there isn't a bigger incentive to keep them there. Like I said before I think it's flawed and could've been done a whole mess of alot better. 

Lastly do I myself ever want to be on that board of influencers? Do I want a target on my back? While I do get that even though its more of, "You don't know till you try" mentality there are people who don't care that its three days but what if that rule changes so you HAVE to watch them. Or you HAVE to wait longer. Its many have and have not's there. But if the numbers aren't what they expected whose to say that rule can or cannot change?

 

[Copendub]

Three days, a week, a month, a year. Does it matter to me how the rules are set? Not really, look I get that from a marketing standpoint its a power move, no doubt about it. But using some of the standpoints stated I hope to at the very least bring the statement home.

||"I want to emphasize that this is NOT a contest. If you meet the requirements, you qualify. So go ahead and do the announcement and release it if you qualify."||

||"We encourage you to do all you can to hype up and advertise your channel to get your followers/ subscriptions up to the minimum amount. If you don’t reach the goal for A19, we plan to do this again for A20 and we’ll welcome your participation for that event."||

Even though you need a certain amount of followers people are having be told the only way they can get access is if they hype up an update. Which honestly that's passively competitive rather than seeking out popular influencers who you know play the game and play it for many hours. What companies do have to pay for or in some cases they just have the cult following to begin with and announce the update to the news feeds or open a promotional event that can be controlled at the flick of a switch. With even questioning people I've come across with these two sentences I got more than I care to admit of negative responses. Again, people are more interested in waiting those days than having to watch someone play it for them. All the more power too them, but in the same response you'll get people who will buy the game find out they can't play it like they see on those streams. Admittedly will refund the game back in response which in turn will lose its flavor of marketing. And if this idea is what is going to happen every subsequent update then yeah you'll either start stretching that update to more than just three days and continue doing this till either people ignore those streamers and wait it out, you see little to no change in revenue, or you eventually stop and go back to the drawing board.

||"We actually want people who have played before and know what they're doing when they show A19."||

Yet people who have maybe played the game as a time killer, or they helped fund the game during it's infancy don't get the same justice? While I agree its a bold power move alot of these streamers can't play the game retroactively I'm a variety "artsy-fartsy" kinda guy so you won't see me stick to one game for long. Then there are some who do keep to a pallet of games. Maybe 7D2D is one of those games, then again what if some of the streamers elected will stop playing the game after the update goes live for everyone else? You can't know that for sure and if the next update they only do 2 hours worth and never bother with the next one or maybe they will there isn't a bigger incentive to keep them there. Like I said before I think it's flawed and could've been done a whole mess of alot better. 

Lastly do I myself ever want to be on that board of influencers? Do I want a target on my back? While I do get that even though its more of, "You don't know till you try" mentality there are people who don't care that its three days but what if that rule changes so you HAVE to watch them. Or you HAVE to wait longer. Its many have and have not's there. But if the numbers aren't what they expected whose to say that rule can or cannot change?

Because they did that before. I remember a few alphas back they did a stream event and they were vey selective on who got to do the stream event. It was a like small power team made up of like 5 or 6 creators. They were all veteran 7 days to die creators that stream 7 days on the regular such as Games4Kickz and Kage848. The whole community did the same thing there doing now which was A. Complain that there not getting the alpha the same time as the streamers and B. Complain about why they weren't included in the stream event cause they had a following on there platform too just it wasn't as big. So it doesn't matter what TFP do someone will always find a reason to complain or not be happy. 

 

[meganoth]

Three days, a week, a month, a year. Does it matter to me how the rules are set? Not really, look I get that from a marketing standpoint its a power move, no doubt about it. But using some of the standpoints stated I hope to at the very least bring the statement home.

||"I want to emphasize that this is NOT a contest. If you meet the requirements, you qualify. So go ahead and do the announcement and release it if you qualify."||

||"We encourage you to do all you can to hype up and advertise your channel to get your followers/ subscriptions up to the minimum amount. If you don’t reach the goal for A19, we plan to do this again for A20 and we’ll welcome your participation for that event."||

Even though you need a certain amount of followers people are having be told the only way they can get access is if they hype up an update. Which honestly that's passively competitive rather than seeking out popular influencers who you know play the game and play it for many hours. What companies do have to pay for or in some cases they just have the cult following to begin with and announce the update to the news feeds or open a promotional event that can be controlled at the flick of a switch. With even questioning people I've come across with these two sentences I got more than I care to admit of negative responses. Again, people are more interested in waiting those days than having to watch someone play it for them. All the more power too them, but in the same response you'll get people who will buy the game find out they can't play it like they see on those streams. Admittedly will refund the game back in response which in turn will lose its flavor of marketing. And if this idea is what is going to happen every subsequent update then yeah you'll either start stretching that update to more than just three days and continue doing this till either people ignore those streamers and wait it out, you see little to no change in revenue, or you eventually stop and go back to the drawing board.

||"We actually want people who have played before and know what they're doing when they show A19."||

Yet people who have maybe played the game as a time killer, or they helped fund the game during it's infancy don't get the same justice? While I agree its a bold power move alot of these streamers can't play the game retroactively I'm a variety "artsy-fartsy" kinda guy so you won't see me stick to one game for long. Then there are some who do keep to a pallet of games. Maybe 7D2D is one of those games, then again what if some of the streamers elected will stop playing the game after the update goes live for everyone else? You can't know that for sure and if the next update they only do 2 hours worth and never bother with the next one or maybe they will there isn't a bigger incentive to keep them there. Like I said before I think it's flawed and could've been done a whole mess of alot better. 

Lastly do I myself ever want to be on that board of influencers? Do I want a target on my back? While I do get that even though its more of, "You don't know till you try" mentality there are people who don't care that its three days but what if that rule changes so you HAVE to watch them. Or you HAVE to wait longer. Its many have and have not's there. But if the numbers aren't what they expected whose to say that rule can or cannot change?

Two of your paragraphs are about "What if... slippery slope". This streamer weekend has been done for I think 3 alphas now and I think even shrunk (the first one may have been a whole week(?), but I could be misremembering). They have not been changed from last time because those rules seems to have worked. Lets not critizise rules that don't exist.

It seems it doesn't matter much what those streamers do after the event. Have you seen anyone from TFP saying they want or need streamers to continue playing 7D2D? I didn't. I have seen messages about the previous streamer weekend being a success, so whatever they are after seems to have happened.

 

[jetblackscarab]

Because they did that before. I remember a few alphas back they did a stream event and they were vey selective on who got to do the stream event. It was a like small power team made up of like 5 or 6 creators. They were all veteran 7 days to die creators that stream 7 days on the regular such as Games4Kickz and Kage848. The whole community did the same thing there doing now which was A. Complain that there not getting the alpha the same time as the streamers and B. Complain about why they weren't included in the stream event cause they had a following on there platform too just it wasn't as big. So it doesn't matter what TFP do someone will always find a reason to complain or not be happy. 

And what about the modding community, I think overall take the biggest hit would be to them rather saying "I don't get to play" or "Why can't I get involved" where are the "C" Individuals who ask "When can I get the update so I can make my mod to your new update?" and make the game better who aren't part of the teams. While I get that things like that involving streamers have been delved on before even though those are creators in social interaction where are the creators of entertainment come into play. Don't they have privilege as well? I'm all for creator freedom but when you pipeline many of the things that make the game interesting and limit to [Just this here] you get, "Okay when can the update get here so I can take my server off for a week and update the new firmware to the new update for my mods?" I try not to be about just if people get to play or not or who gets to showcase it. Like I said before many have and have nots.

And the truth is Copendub you can never make everyone happy if many of you worked in retail or in food service you will always have one individual who you can never please.

 

[meganoth]

There is





Lots of modders are already playing A19 for weeks and probably are not that interested in a 3 day promotional event anymore

 

[Copendub]

And what about the modding community, I think overall take the biggest hit would be to them rather saying "I don't get to play" or "Why can't I get involved" where are the "C" Individuals who ask "When can I get the update so I can make my mod to your new update?" and make the game better who aren't part of the teams. While I get that things like that involving streamers have been delved on before even though those are creators in social interaction where are the creators of entertainment come into play. Don't they have privilege as well? I'm all for creator freedom but when you pipeline many of the things that make the game interesting and limit to [Just this here] you get, "Okay when can the update get here so I can take my server off for a week and update the new firmware to the new update for my mods?" I try not to be about just if people get to play or not or who gets to showcase it. Like I said before many have and have nots.

And the truth is Copendub you can never make everyone happy if many of you worked in retail or in food service you will always have one individual who you can never please.

I'm not the fun pimps so I cant answer for them but, if I had to guess in regards to what about the modding community Madmole would say something along the lines of "Modder's should just be happy that our code supports modding as much as it does because we didn't have to do that." 

And yes I have worked management in retail and food service so I understand. When it comes down to it though it's what TFP wants to do and it works and its there game so there gunna do what they want to do. If they feel like it needs to be tweaked I'm sure they will but its worked in the past fine so I doubt they will.

 

[Roland]

||"I want to emphasize that this is NOT a contest. If you meet the requirements, you qualify. So go ahead and do the announcement and release it if you qualify."||

||"We encourage you to do all you can to hype up and advertise your channel to get your followers/ subscriptions up to the minimum amount. If you don’t reach the goal for A19, we plan to do this again for A20 and we’ll welcome your participation for that event."||

Even though you need a certain amount of followers people are having be told the only way they can get access is if they hype up an update. Which honestly that's passively competitive rather than seeking out popular influencers who you know play the game and play it for many hours. What companies do have to pay for or in some cases they just have the cult following to begin with and announce the update to the news feeds or open a promotional event that can be controlled at the flick of a switch. With even questioning people I've come across with these two sentences I got more than I care to admit of negative responses. Again, people are more interested in waiting those days than having to watch someone play it for them. All the more power too them, but in the same response you'll get people who will buy the game find out they can't play it like they see on those streams. Admittedly will refund the game back in response which in turn will lose its flavor of marketing. And if this idea is what is going to happen every subsequent update then yeah you'll either start stretching that update to more than just three days and continue doing this till either people ignore those streamers and wait it out, you see little to no change in revenue, or you eventually stop and go back to the drawing board.

You are doing a lot of speculating of results that have never panned out any of the times we have done this. Thanks for sharing some worst-case scenario possibilities but based on history and what actually resulted we feel good about proceeding and the only streamers who have not returned are those who had scheduling conflicts or stopped streaming altogether. There obviously wasn't enough bad PR against them for participating to have a single one tell us that they would have to skip the next one because people were giving them really negative comments.

As far as returns we monitor reviews and and also Steam sends us reports on sales and returns. There is zero evidence that anyone has ever returned the game for a refund because they couldn't play it exactly like they saw on the stream event. I don't know whether that is because the streamers do a good job of talking about how they are playing a preview of the upcoming update and people put 2 and 2 together or whether they have a lot of fun with the current version and are happy with that until they find out about the update. But your scenario of mass refunds is not reality.

||"We actually want people who have played before and know what they're doing when they show A19."||

Yet people who have maybe played the game as a time killer, or they helped fund the game during it's infancy don't get the same justice? While I agree its a bold power move alot of these streamers can't play the game retroactively I'm a variety "artsy-fartsy" kinda guy so you won't see me stick to one game for long. Then there are some who do keep to a pallet of games. Maybe 7D2D is one of those games, then again what if some of the streamers elected will stop playing the game after the update goes live for everyone else? You can't know that for sure and if the next update they only do 2 hours worth and never bother with the next one or maybe they will there isn't a bigger incentive to keep them there. Like I said before I think it's flawed and could've been done a whole mess of alot better. 

Lastly do I myself ever want to be on that board of influencers? Do I want a target on my back? While I do get that even though its more of, "You don't know till you try" mentality there are people who don't care that its three days but what if that rule changes so you HAVE to watch them. Or you HAVE to wait longer. Its many have and have not's there. But if the numbers aren't what they expected whose to say that rule can or cannot change?

The only requirement is 5000 followers. If someone doesn't have the game but has 5000 followers then we will add them and encourage them to get the game and play it before the the event. That is our recommendation and preference. But we would still allow someone with zero experience with the game to join the event if they have at least 5k followers and I'm sure at least one of the developers would be sure to watch what a first-time player does to figure the game out. We are perfectly fine with people who stream a variety of games as that is the most likely result to bring new people to the game so if someone has only played 7 Days hear and there for the past year and after the event don't continue to play 7 Days to Die religiously that's fine. Hopefully some of their viewers will get some interest.

And then there's that target thing again. There are a ton of people rushing to apply and also returning to do the event again. Not one person on the team has asked me to please remove their name from the list above because they've been getting hate mail. I view every announcement video and when it is a foreign language I translate the comments so I can kind tell the vibe from the announcement. They are always positive and supportive. I appreciate the concern but the actual historical results do not support your speculations.

And the truth is Copendub you can never make everyone happy if many of you worked in retail or in food service you will always have one individual who you can never please.

I am in complete agreement with this statement and it is why we are sticking with the formula that has been working and does please the greater number of individuals.

All of those negative outcomes you have shared are all things we considered and debated when this event was in the original planning stage more than 2 years ago. They are also things I worried about before and during the first time we did it. But since then, based on actual results, your worries are not my worries any longer. The only thing we changed from the first time we did it was to remove the component where we selected the streamers or let the community do a popularity contest and we just opened it up to anyone who could qualify. That was a great improvement and we are very satisfied now with what we are doing.

 

[jetblackscarab]

All of those negative outcomes you have shared are all things we considered and debated when this event was in the original planning stage more than 2 years ago. They are also things I worried about before and during the first time we did it. But since then, based on actual results, your worries are not my worries any longer. The only thing we changed from the first time we did it was to remove the component where we selected the streamers or let the community do a popularity contest and we just opened it up to anyone who could qualify. That was a great improvement and we are very satisfied now with what we are doing.

I yield to you good sir, I only hope that confidence is something I too can own up to in the future. All I can say is I really wish the best of luck and hope that it continues to be a positive outcome.

 

[JCrook1028]

And what about the modding community, I think overall take the biggest hit would be to them rather saying "I don't get to play" or "Why can't I get involved" where are the "C" Individuals who ask "When can I get the update so I can make my mod to your new update?" and make the game better who aren't part of the teams. While I get that things like that involving streamers have been delved on before even though those are creators in social interaction where are the creators of entertainment come into play. Don't they have privilege as well? I'm all for creator freedom but when you pipeline many of the things that make the game interesting and limit to [Just this here] you get, "Okay when can the update get here so I can take my server off for a week and update the new firmware to the new update for my mods?" I try not to be about just if people get to play or not or who gets to showcase it. Like I said before many have and have nots.

And the truth is Copendub you can never make everyone happy if many of you worked in retail or in food service you will always have one individual who you can never please.

Do you realize every point you bring up has been brought every other stream event also? TFP is happy with the way the event works and the results is has. Period.

 

[Roland]

Welcome to:

CrypticFox broadcasting from Canada

Wautscher broadcasting from Germany

Hirnsturz broadcasting from Germany

Copendub broadcasting from USA

Aki Piyo broadcasting from Japan

 

[Laokia]

So I thought I would chime in and say thank you to TFP for having these streamer weekends.

Am I a streamer? Not yet, maybe one day.

Do I watch the streams? Naw, I want to see/play it fresh (I will go back and watch some streams after I get to play if they are available.)

Does it change my life in any way? Not really.

But I still enjoy them, and personally it makes me happy.

What does it do?

- Provides cost efficient marketing for a game that I would love to see more people play.

- Generates hype for a few days before release (even not watching, you'll still likely see the streams in recommended).

- Allows for a final bug-test (of sorts) before the public release.

BELOW ARE JUST MY OPINIONS

I dunno. If they did not have the streamer weekend very little changes for those who don't qualify. You get the game at public release. The only difference is that you wouldn't see early streams in your recommend sections (and/or wouldn't know that a handful of people that aren't you were playing it).

If the streamer weekend didn't exist would that be better? For who? Yourself? Your friends? Does you or someone you know not qualifying to provide marketing services for 7Days make it... wrong? Bad? If you qualified (and/or everyone you knew also qualified) would it be a great thing?

It's not a reward, its a (volunteer) job. Just because you want that job does not make it a reward...

If you ate at -insertfoodchain- every day and they suddenly had a job opening, that you didn't qualify for, and they rejected your application...

(Note that those places also often have certain perks for being an employee other than just a salary. So if you want to consider playing the game a few days early a perk, the analogy can still be relevant.)

Sure it might feel like a slap in the face, that sorta thing does hurt- and I don't think it's selfish at all to feel that way. I mean, you can really come to know the people there and even feel like family. But I think it is selfish to not take the time to put those feelings into perspective, and then complain and lash out because of it. It's not about you and does not even represent the personal feelings of those involved. There IS a reason why you should separate business from personal matters after all.

It is pretty rude of me to post my opinions publicly like this while not intending to keep up with potential responses to it.  There's way too many things going on right now that are far more important than this.

 

[Roland]

Welcome to:

TellesGeek broadcasting from Brazil

Lin Xiaotian broadcasing from China

Xacbert 00 broadcasting from Spain

MedusaGeek broadcasing from Brazil

Please check out their channels if you have a chance and speak their languages. It is truly exciting to see such an internationally wide love for the game!

 

[Marinxar]

There is no question about the effectiveness of the stream weekend. Oh believe me, the first time this came around, I was in the front row with pitch fork in hand, but after the initial reaction, and listening to Roland's explanation on why and how, I got onboard with it.

Now, I look forward to it. I don't get to see much of my favorite Streamers play the game once the experimental drops, as I am a big addict, and too busy playing myself, but it certainly helps with hype and another big thing is, we are part of the final testing. 100s of thousands of people are watching the game, scrutinizing every bit of it, and a lot of bugs is identified and fixed for the first public experimental.

Now, with the list of streamers growing so rapidly with every release, this will become even more effective. So if you don't get in this time, jon us on the peanut gallery and get hyped and help spot some last minute bugs.  Grab some ideas for your first Let's Play, and work hard during the next 6-12 months, to get your name on the list for the next one... especially since A20 could potentially be one of the last ones, so you definitely want to get your numbers up for the Gold release stream weekend  

 

[GameplayJenny]

Hi guys, slightly late to the party on this but I will be applying - is the cut-off date inclusive, ie do I have all of the 10th? Many thanks.

 

[Roland]

You'll have all of my 10th and I live in California so plan accordingly...

 

[Roland]

Welcome to

Tekja Gameplays broadcasting from Spain

EvanAndKatelyn broadcasting from USA Central

LaurenThe Short broadcasting from USA West

Zanthyst Gaming broadcasting from USA West

Walker10474 broadcasting from Germany