I don't think the issue is small. I just think the sample size is small, by which I mean the number of people effectively being surveyed by reading forum threads is small relative to the total player base and thus can't be relied on as a representative sample leaning in one direction or the other.
PC Food: Survival arcade vs Survival sim
- Thread starter Xtrakicking
- Start date
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
It's actually the only design that's relevant as it's the one their following and only they fully know..
Khalagar
Scavenger
Agreed. Where's my vote to kick option, can we like vote to XtraKick Xtrakicking from teamchat
Madmole has already nailed it like 3 times, it's pretty straight forward IMO
1. Dev time is EXTREMELY valuable for all companies, I know this first hand from my own job. It's a very, very hotly sought after resource on all sides, and it nearly always goes to the highest bidder . . .the one that will make the company more money. Passion projects are like near bottom priority
2. Valuable dev time above is going to things far, far more impactful to the game like adding new enemy types and weapons and vehicles. Those things will bring in new players / encourage returning players. Literally nobody is going to pick a game back up because "We made the food system more tedious! That's it, that's the big change for A19!"
3. Tedious hunger / survival systems in general are not the focus of the game and are not something most players care about / want. Even in this thread, there's like . . .a grand total of one or two people who want the food system to be drastically revamped, and most responses in this thread about the food are like me where it basically boils down to "it could be better but it could be worse, just don't make it really annoying because I'm not playing the game for the hunger system"
That, and, we aren't the target market . . .because we've already paid. See point 1. In the corporate world, the first response to literally every change or new feature request is just "Who's going to pay for this? How does this help us profit? What else could our devs be working on instead?". Die hard survival game fans already know all about 7 Days to Die and bought it 40 years ago during a sale for $6, the devs are trying to appeal to the rest of the market. Flashy new mechanics, vehicles, zombies, and locations do that far more than overhauling hunger systems
TLDR; The Fun Pimps are wasting their time by not adding zombie dinosaurs to the game, we really, really need zombie raptors that can jump 2-3 blocks high to shake up the fortification meta. Clearly. I started out joking, but then realized I actually want zombie raptors
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Xtrakicking
Refugee
bloodmoth13
Refugee
its just a matter of keeping those 'things to do' in the game. having upkeep is important for repeatable end game content. One idea i had was recruiting npc survivors to protect your base/do repairs/craft things for you (its weird the workbench crafts things on its own) of course the more you have the more food you need
custom_hero
Refugee
The question of the difference in player experience, solves 6 difficulty levels and fine-tuning the game. I played 1500 hours, everything ok for me.
You add drones, fantastic turrets. But in the game there is no boat (most part of the world is water), no electric stove, microwave, decorations very few.
There is electricity in the game.
But it is not used for the 2 most important things, for lighting (because no one uses them. thanks for aka gamma, delete gamma option), and for cooking.
There are electric doors that only work on opening from the sensor. (need to configure the door opening in the opposite direction)
Basic things, add more textures to paint the blocks. We have problems in what to paint a box with resources, box with items for sell.
More realism, return human turd to the toilet. return (blood kit, craft mech part, elect part, vehicle quickly ended in a 4x4 world).
I have a dedicated server, with many players I play in a co-op, people stopped building the farm, we need to simplify the crafting of the farm plot.
Google Translate©
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Aldranon
Refugee
Trying to perfectly understand a player-base would require a lot of metrics.
A good developer would accept all the metrics possible, but in the end, will make the game they are motivated to complete (for whatever reasons).
Paradox games, usually makes games for smarter than average players. That cuts them out of a large chunk of players, but they aren't too motivated to change. Just look at any one of their "Dev Clash"'s on Youtube and you can see: They make the games, because they love to play the games.
Back to TFP, for their first game (I hope its just their first) it appears they want to appeal to as large a base as possible, this excludes making the game too complex, they're just trying to find the "Goldilocks zone".
Then, for a "Game 2" ("Al's Marina vs The Apocalypse" if you're looking for a title) they can experiment more on things that motivate them to play.
A good developer would accept all the metrics possible, but in the end, will make the game they are motivated to complete (for whatever reasons).
Paradox games, usually makes games for smarter than average players. That cuts them out of a large chunk of players, but they aren't too motivated to change. Just look at any one of their "Dev Clash"'s on Youtube and you can see: They make the games, because they love to play the games.
Back to TFP, for their first game (I hope its just their first) it appears they want to appeal to as large a base as possible, this excludes making the game too complex, they're just trying to find the "Goldilocks zone".
Then, for a "Game 2" ("Al's Marina vs The Apocalypse" if you're looking for a title) they can experiment more on things that motivate them to play.
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Gamida
Hood Ornament
I was wondering years ago how a propane fridge did it's thing. I never understood how an open flame could cool something down.I don't really care if my meat storage box is called fridge or crate, I will manage [SIZE=15.6833px][/SIZE] Not sure a fire pit under the fridge makes the fridge really work better
We probably want the same thing here: An electrical stove so we don't need to micro-manage wood to put into the campfire. Right?
A lot of people here use old fridges as smokers. They work well.no the fire would just be there to smoke it. not like a bond fire. but a Box would work too [SIZE=15.6833px]
[SIZE=15.6833px]and Madmole said something about a electrical stove (he may have changed his mind though who knows) but how would that work? would it take power when you turn it on? it may be easy to do i don't know! i barely know how to upgrade the XML files![/SIZE]
personally i would think a stove that used a fire/fuel would be easier to make and program but i don't know
Aldranon
Refugee
Wow, talk about something counter intuitive! I wonder about the person who thought it up.I was wondering years ago how a propane fridge did it's thing. I never understood how an open flame could cool something down.
The propane heats water and ammonia (I think they dilute the ammonia because some bad explosions can happen with enough pure ammonia). The evaporated pure ammonia liquid touches hydrogen gas and that reaction sucks heat from the area, then passes through a radiator and the cycle continues.
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Dosu Kinuta
Refugee
Modify the xml files, increase spawn rate, lower the exp rate, put the zombie speed on nightmare all the time, have horde night everyday, play on the hardest difficulty, there you go, now you can survive rather than thrive. You're welcome.
I don't agree with alot of xtrakicking requests, but how does your suggestion balance hunger and thirst?
Khulkhuum
Refugee
Finally caught up with those new pages i found this morning... Was expecting 1-2 new post pages, but having 10 is too much... That's some discussion and one cannot simply reply to a post mid 4th page, because there are another 4 (at least) and the discussion could be over... Like seriously...
Anyway, my 2$. We don't know how A19 plays yet with the new systems. We don't know if anything we were talking about isn't being considered in the future (for example, MM mentioned something like animal spawning multiplier option or something the sort... forgot ALREADY after these last pages). We don't know whether TFP will change their minds on some subject, cause noone knows the future.
For differentiation between SP and MP on food usage, i'd see two options:
1. Food consumption stays low for the first few levels and gradually rises, meaning in late game you need more food than in early game for the same time period. Obviously, could cap at some point. This both means you are able to obtain food better (buying, hunting, faster movement between places, better skills to get more and better fighting to clear POIs faster), as well as is a mark of progression. Think of it however you want.
2. Allow some options to increase or decrease spawning food in POIs/animals in the wild/food at traders. Pick one or all. This should be self explanatory. You play MP with many people, pimp up the spawning. You play SP, tone it down.
Anyway, my 2$. We don't know how A19 plays yet with the new systems. We don't know if anything we were talking about isn't being considered in the future (for example, MM mentioned something like animal spawning multiplier option or something the sort... forgot ALREADY after these last pages). We don't know whether TFP will change their minds on some subject, cause noone knows the future.
For differentiation between SP and MP on food usage, i'd see two options:
1. Food consumption stays low for the first few levels and gradually rises, meaning in late game you need more food than in early game for the same time period. Obviously, could cap at some point. This both means you are able to obtain food better (buying, hunting, faster movement between places, better skills to get more and better fighting to clear POIs faster), as well as is a mark of progression. Think of it however you want.
2. Allow some options to increase or decrease spawning food in POIs/animals in the wild/food at traders. Pick one or all. This should be self explanatory. You play MP with many people, pimp up the spawning. You play SP, tone it down.
Dosu Kinuta
Refugee
I may or may not be wrong, but he is not really concerned about hunger and thirst balancing, he is implying that the game is "too easy" and he tries to find subtle methods to say it just to convince Madmole to make the game harder, in which case play with the HARDEST DIFFICULTIES possible and problem done.
After you did that for a while and it's still easy (which I doubt it's going to happen since selecting all the hard difficulties at the same time it's really a nightmare and pain in the neck) then come and suggest new things to make the game harder and then wait. I mean, come on guys, bandits are not even out and you still argue about difficulty again. Just because a few players don't like the current hunger and thirst system...they can't talk for everyone and that doesn't mean there is something wrong with the system, it's a preference.
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beHypE
Refugee
Hunger & food is a fun topic. We've restarted a game as a 4 man squad with 7 days hordes disabled (my friends wanted a less stressful, clock-ticking game), and honestly food has been a decent challenge in the first 10 hours. Mostly because it takes quite a while to get a farm going with enough crops, and that you need to reuse those crops for seeds before you can actually cook with them etc...
We lived off every vending machine / food at traders we could find and mostly bacon & eggs. Digging quests helped a bit aswell. Honestly, it was pretty fun, because ultimately without hordes there's not much of a challenge anyways. Now the situation is obviously very much under control for good, as you would expect after a while, especially since one is specialized in living off the land while another is specialized in master chef.
Regarding the challenge, is there anything planned in A19 that raises it ? I know I'm recycling my topics here, but honestly clearing any POI / city is a breeze once you use firearms. I understand the 7 days hordes act as a bullet sink, but regardless of ammo count, there's this "middle game" where everything becomes way too easy until you start spawning radiated zeds. Mostly because day 1 and day 25 zombies are roughly the same (with some more ferals / cops), but your firepower is absolutely incomparable.
We lived off every vending machine / food at traders we could find and mostly bacon & eggs. Digging quests helped a bit aswell. Honestly, it was pretty fun, because ultimately without hordes there's not much of a challenge anyways. Now the situation is obviously very much under control for good, as you would expect after a while, especially since one is specialized in living off the land while another is specialized in master chef.
Regarding the challenge, is there anything planned in A19 that raises it ? I know I'm recycling my topics here, but honestly clearing any POI / city is a breeze once you use firearms. I understand the 7 days hordes act as a bullet sink, but regardless of ammo count, there's this "middle game" where everything becomes way too easy until you start spawning radiated zeds. Mostly because day 1 and day 25 zombies are roughly the same (with some more ferals / cops), but your firepower is absolutely incomparable.
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Xtrakicking
Refugee
You are wrong. I do think hunger and thirst aren't balanced, and I've had that sentiment for a while, even before I reached 1k hours. It's not a matter of difficulty. Playing on insane won't fix the imbalance I think those mechanics have.
That being said, Roland asked us to continue the debate elsewhere, so we could do that if you want. Best to leave it here, otherwise.
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CannedSmeef
Refugee
I'm a little late to this discussion, but I feel like the most elegant temporary solution for not making new players feel crushed by the need for food in the early game is to just make the first spawn have extra food cans, enough to last them a couple days with no risk of starving. That way, if food was made more scarce, they wouldn't feel it for a good couple of hours, which should be more than enough time to have them get a basic feel for the game and how much of an issue finding food is. When they notice they are finding little food from looting and they are running out of food cans, they will naturally prioritize finding more, instead of having food scarcity just hit them in the face right out the gate.
Emphasis on this possible solution being temporary, obviously in the future an actual food scarcity option would be the better solution. But I feel like this would please veterans without making it impossible for newcomers. And it's a really simple change too, just up the starting chili cans/water and make food loot tables less common.
Thoughts on this?
NOTE: If loot tables are more complicated to edit than I think, then making food/water drain faster could also work.
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Marinxar
Refugee
This topic ( Food scarsity/difficulty/spoiling/etc. ) has been moved to General discussions by Roland. No longer allowed here.
Operator_Death
Refugee
Thank you @Xtrakicking I must have missed this. I am so excited I had to speed read most of the pages in the forum.
