PC Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[madmole]

Yeah, the thing is that the way it was worded made it seem like the decision was to just get rid of the problem by cutting the feature from the game entirely. If, as you said in your previous response, they have plans to upgrade the whole system in the future much like they did with infection, then it's very different.

I wouldn't get your hopes up.  At the end of the day we're spinning circles trying to make food balanced and that is all it was meant to do. Its completely shippable now, instead of a system most people didn't care for and the game is better  for it. Its one of those things no matter what we do its going to be overcame fairly early as farming, looting and trading make it possible to eat. And its just a low level problem and it doesn't need to resurface mid or late game, when there are more exciting problems at hand like how to deal with new special infected.

 

 

[Xtrakicking]

I wouldn't get your hopes up.  At the end of the day we're spinning circles trying to make food balanced and that is all it was meant to do. Its completely shippable now, instead of a system most people didn't care for and the game is better  for it. Its one of those things no matter what we do its going to be overcame fairly early as farming, looting and trading make it possible to eat. And its just a low level problem and it doesn't need to resurface mid or late game, when there are more exciting problems at hand like how to deal with new special infected.

 

Except it isn't balanced. How could it be balanced if the player can just stack up raw meat and live off of that without any consequence at all? You don't even need a farm or a fireplace and you can just survive like that. I get that there are some elements regarding zombies, combat, etc, that are priorities, but I don't see the point of adding depth to those and completely dumbing down such basic components of a survival game such as hunger and thirst, especially when you already have the framework required to also add depth to hunger and thirst like the ISS.

 

[madmole]

I understand your frustration. I too do not favor this change. I have an option though and thats to use the dirty word as i see fit to get it back.

I used to fight with the team all the time in an effort to keep survival in 7 days, but the sooner we all accept that 7 days is the foundation for a great survival game and not an actual survival game the better off we will be and the less upset we will get.

And when i say that I do assume that the developers agree on that one. There are over a dozen games out there that do survival right, and actually focus on it being a game mechanic that my assumptions is that the decision for 7 days to be more looter shooter than a survival game had been made a few alphas back. 

Looking a it from that perspective you develop a new respect for it, as its a great looter shooter that mixes in a trace of survival elements without getting in the way of running and gunning. Its quite a fun arcade experience.

7 Days IS a survival game, but you want it to be a survival simulation. Games are fun, simulations are generally not. This was just another thing we tried that to my surprise nobody but me liked. But I like a harder slower game where others just want to loot shoot and deal with the horde. But like I said earlier, with all these new criticals you can get in combat getting a problem while your just trying to survive eating arguably good food isn't the best design but I was working with what we had.

Going along with that idea Id remove canned food too. Really no need for them at all anymore. One less useless item.

No, all the best recipes require canned foods so that farmers cannot mass produce the best foods with no looting effort.

 

[Xtrakicking]

Its one of those things no matter what we do its going to be overcame fairly early as farming, looting and trading make it possible to eat.

 

Additionaly, if it's true that no matter what you do, players will overcome the problem eventually, it would at least help to not make it even easier to overcome early game.

 

[Guppycur]

Seems the new recipes offer benefits, but there isn't much in the way of negatives?  So unless you're the type of person who just HAS to max out, the rest of us can just play normally with our over 175 meats on day one, and be just fine?  (Stand on truck, shoot bears and wolves with impunity, profit... One shot does, club boars... Hell, most of the meat comes TO you!)

(And that count is no exaggeration).

 

[Blake_]

Seems the new recipes offer benefits, but there isn't much in the way of negatives?  So unless you're the type of person who just HAS to max out, the rest of us can just play normally with our over 175 meats on day one, and be just fine?  (Stand on truck, shoot bears and wolves with impunity, profit... One shot does, club boars... Hell, most of the meat comes TO you!)

(And that count is no exaggeration).

175 pieces of meat are just 35 charred meat rations which would last you maybe 2-3 days of active gameplay. I don't see your point. Horde night is at day 7, so you better kill  14-20 animals for some 350 meat at the very least for sustained and rewarding survival. Breaking news, 15 deers are hard to find in 7 days. If just 1 of them is a rabbit, a snake, a chicken or a coyote, you probably won't make it. So if you

don't expend a single point in Master Cheff or Iron Gut you will be in trouble.

Do you need a simplified version of the "meat" thingy? Maybe we shall call it chunks of meat and asume that we eat a lot? Or maybe we shall call them " meat snacks" and wrap them up in plastic inside a bunker so you can find the game more realistic?

 

[Xtrakicking]

175 pieces of meat are just 35 charred meat rations which would last you maybe 2-3 days of active gameplay. I don't see your point.

Day 1, my friend, and if it lasts 2-3 days, just imagine later on how little food matters.

The problem, as Guppy said, is that there aren't any consequences nor negatives at all. Rotten food takes away a bit of health. Big deal, pop a painkiller and live off of rotten food as well. There's no sense of satisfaction in filling the hunger bar if the threat of actually starving to death is non existent.

So if you don't expend a single point in Master Cheff or Iron Gut you will be in trouble.

I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself, and so far I have never spent a point in none of those skills. There's no need to, food is abundant. I'd rather save the points for when I reach the very expensive last levels of the int build.

If Iron Gut isn't really necessary now, with the vomiting mechanic, just imagine if there's no consequence of eating bad quality food anymore.

 

[Blake_]

Day 1, my friend, and if it lasts 2-3 days, just imagine later on how little food matters.

The problem, as Guppy said, is that there aren't any consequences nor negatives at all. Rotten food takes away a bit of health. Big deal, pop a painkiller and live off of rotten food as well. There's no sense of satisfaction in filling the hunger bar if the threat of actually starving to death is non existent.

I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself, and so far I have never spent a point in none of those skills. There's no need to, food is abundant. I'd rather save the points for when I reach the very expensive last levels of the int build.

If Iron Gut isn't really necessary now, with the vomiting mechanic, just imagine if there's no consequence of eating bad quality food anymore.

When I play single player I don't have any problem with food either. When you start to add players into the equation it gets exponentially hard if you don't perk straight into those perks. I noticed with just 1 partner. I played with 4 friends a couple of months ago and it was hell the first few days . Lots of close calls, constant starving. We just play mixed style : some questing, some building, some everything.

Edit: Just remember that those 175 meat won' t last 7 days and you will not find as much the next 7 days until animals respawn in your area. If you don't play extreme nomadic style you will perish. Food is not that easy to find. It sure is a bit more than enough for single player though.

 

[Roland]

When you eat meals that are at charred meat and even canned food level, you feel like you have to constantly do it to keep your fullness up. 
 

Eating the better foods really let you play for awhile without having to eat eat eat. 
 

Madmole said don’t get your hopes up but he ALSO said radiation and radiation sickness are planned and there could be a tie in with that for food.
 

So just poke your hopes a little bit. 

 

[madmole]

Hi @madmole, I wanted to ask you about Richard Huenink, and Christian Lang.
Tell me a little about them, who are they?  are you working at 7dtd? They left? why? what important decisions they make in the game. Thank you

Richard is my Brother and we co own TFP. Christian retired last year.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Guys I'm going for the record number of turd reactions in one post.  Turd me.

Edit: unlike real life, I can't poop myself.

17 Turds!! -- Including one from the Boss!.

What do I win!!!???   a mug?? a T-shirt?

I wouldn't get your hopes up.  At the end of the day we're spinning circles trying to make food balanced and that is all it was meant to do. Its completely shippable now, instead of a system most people didn't care for and the game is better  for it. Its one of those things no matter what we do its going to be overcame fairly early as farming, looting and trading make it possible to eat. And its just a low level problem and it doesn't need to resurface mid or late game, when there are more exciting problems at hand like how to deal with new special infected.

 

As much as I love difficulty, that mechanic was horrible, thanks for the change.

 

[EffiJeffy]

When you eat meals that are at charred meat and even canned food level, you feel like you have to constantly do it to keep your fullness up. 
 

Eating the better foods really let you play for awhile without having to eat eat eat. 
 

Madmole said don’t get your hopes up but he ALSO said radiation and radiation sickness are planned and there could be a tie in with that for food.
 

So just poke your hopes a little bit. 

Radiation in A19 or A20?

 

[madmole]

Except it isn't balanced. How could it be balanced if the player can just stack up raw meat and live off of that without any consequence at all? You don't even need a farm or a fireplace and you can just survive like that. I get that there are some elements regarding zombies, combat, etc, that are priorities, but I don't see the point of adding depth to those and completely dumbing down such basic components of a survival game such as hunger and thirst, especially when you already have the framework required to also add depth to hunger and thirst like the ISS.

Why would you need to farm to survive if you are a looter shooter shopper? Farms are for home bodies or dedicated team support guy. We'll probably add a penalty to raw meat yet.

 

[Roland]

@EffiJeffy A20 or beyond. The coding for three levels of radiation is already in the game but hasn’t been activated yet. But it won’t be in A19. 

 

[Guppycur]

175 pieces of meat are just 35 charred meat rations which would last you maybe 2-3 days of active gameplay. I don't see your point. Horde night is at day 7, so you better kill  14-20 animals for some 350 meat at the very least for sustained and rewarding survival. Breaking news, 15 deers are hard to find in 7 days. If just 1 of them is a rabbit, a snake, a chicken or a coyote, you probably won't make it. So if you

don't expend a single point in Master Cheff or Iron Gut you will be in trouble.

Do you need a simplified version of the "meat" thingy? Maybe we shall call it chunks of meat and asume that we eat a lot? Or maybe we shall call them " meat snacks" and wrap them up in plastic inside a bunker so you can find the game more realistic?

...that's just the meats.  The plethora of eggs and canned food means a hell of a lot more than just "2-3" days, and if you REALLY think about it, you said it yourself... I collected at *minimum*, "2-3 days" of food in the daytime hours of day 1.  You still don't see the point?

Food is not, and never has been, problematic in this game.  Ever.

 

[madmole]

Additionaly, if it's true that no matter what you do, players will overcome the problem eventually, it would at least help to not make it even easier to overcome early game.

Except it isn't easy to overcome. We have people starving to death or feeling demoralized running around with no stamina from starvation. You obviously play SP where it is easy. Its quite hard in MP with a lot of people on the server looting and killing all the animals.

 

[Guppycur]

When I play single player I don't have any problem with food either. When you start to add players into the equation it gets exponentially hard if you don't perk straight into those perks. I noticed with just 1 partner. I played with 4 friends a couple of months ago and it was hell the first few days . Lots of close calls, constant starving. We just play mixed style : some questing, some building, some everything.

Edit: Just remember that those 175 meat won' t last 7 days and you will not find as much the next 7 days until animals respawn in your area. If you don't play extreme nomadic style you will perish. Food is not that easy to find. It sure is a bit more than enough for single player though.

With next to no biome spawns, wandering the terrain hitting the new chunks getting the new spawns is effortless.  Remember, TFP removed 99% of the dangers into houses with the sleeper system, and the other "dangers" are meal delivery systems (bring me those wolves, boars and bears!). 

...also, you may want to get your team coordinated, we are MORE flush with food during MP sessions, because Gam insists on farming.

A20 or beyond. The coding for three levels of radiation is already in the game but hasn’t been activated yet. But it won’t be in A19. 

I hope that cvar bug (where cvar's don't get adjusted properly when dragging clothing off vs clicking clothing off) gets fixed, so we can take advantage of the green and blue zones though...

 

[Laz Man]

Day 1, my friend, and if it lasts 2-3 days, just imagine later on how little food matters.

The problem, as Guppy said, is that there aren't any consequences nor negatives at all. Rotten food takes away a bit of health. Big deal, pop a painkiller and live off of rotten food as well. There's no sense of satisfaction in filling the hunger bar if the threat of actually starving to death is non existent.

I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself, and so far I have never spent a point in none of those skills. There's no need to, food is abundant. I'd rather save the points for when I reach the very expensive last levels of the int build.

If Iron Gut isn't really necessary now, with the vomiting mechanic, just imagine if there's no consequence of eating bad quality food anymore.

Its really hard to judge until we play it and see how it actually feels.  Ultimately, the game is about not dying, and if eating bad food reduces your HP, its not much different from getting poisoned by food.  At the end of the day, your general health is impacted by the decision to eat bad food.  If it doesn't feel immersive enough, perhaps something can be done using the new criticals system...That is probably the way I would go....

Once again, will have to see how it feels first before I can comment further.

 

[madmole]

Remember the vending machines have mostly candy in them now so canned foods are much less available than in A18.

 

[Adam the Waster]

Except it isn't easy to overcome. We have people starving to death or feeling demoralized running around with no stamina from starvation. You obviously play SP where it is easy. Its quite hard in MP with a lot of people on the server looting and killing all the animals.

thats why i kinda tone down my loot settings so it's harder to find food for myself, Why don't i play on servers? im toxic and get pissed off at people to easily, if i mess something up in singleplayer i know its my Fault! 

no wonder i have no friends 

ALSO hows the Unfrozen Lumberjack

17 Turds!! -- Including one from the Boss!.

What do I win!!!???   a mug?? a T-shirt?

another turd.