PC Zombie Counts and Options

[Ghostlight]

So, I've been lurking in the shadows and playing on my console. I decided to drink the koolaid and get the pc version. I now feel completely lost and do recognize that learning by doing is no longer a thing. Okay I'm good with that......So what does everyone do while it's dark?

If you came from the console version you will soon realise there are barely any zombies wandering in the PC version compared to what you're used to. They really screwed this up in recent patches so your zombie apocalypse severely lacks zombies. Once you have a decent light source (e.g helmet light) you can basically just continue doing whatever you'd do in the day at night, there's no real threat in the game anymore to worry about.

In short the game is a shadow of its former self, at least zombies-wise. Don't expect much.

 

[Roland]

If you came from the console version you will soon realise there are barely any zombies wandering in the PC version compared to what you're used to. They really screwed this up in recent patches so your zombie apocalypse severely lacks zombies. Once you have a decent light source (e.g helmet light) you can basically just continue doing whatever you'd do in the day at night, there's no real threat in the game anymore to worry about.
In short the game is a shadow of its former self, at least zombies-wise. Don't expect much.

I don't know what you're talking about. My game has loads of zombies because the PC has one super important advantage over the Xbox version and anyone who plays the PC version with not enough zombies to their liking is seriously short changing themselves. This game was made to be modded and there are a number of modlets that increase zombie counts-- double, 4x, 8x, 16x...whatever you want. Just do it. Much more productive than using every single thread to repeat yourself ad nauseum.

And in case anyone is worried that I'm trying to repress this feedback don't concern yourself. The devs know. They are fully aware of the zombie counts and how players feel about it. They've definitely heard. There is no need to continue beating this dead horse in every single thread you visit.

 

[Roland]

Ah, yes, a zombie apocalypse game that needs a mod to bring zombies to the game. In A19 then we need a mod to get a club into the game?

There are zombies in the game without the need for mods. For many the number is plenty. For others the number is not to their preference. When it is a matter of preference then that is where mods come in. I'm not sure what you're on about with clubs. Not only is there a club but there are 3 tiers of clubs plus a stun baton plus a sledge hammer. There are also spikes and barb wire you can add to your clubs for more variations. Plenty of blunt force weapons in the game. No mods necessary.

Since the devs heard and are aware of the problem and even mods seem to fix this easily, there will be a fix regarding that in 18.3 and it's a shame that there was no fix in 18.2 already. Right?

The devs must do what they feel is best to deliver a product that is consistent and works on the widest range of rigs. Modders don't have to operate to that standard level. If I tried to use the 16x mod my computer couldn't handle it but the option is out there for those who can. Perhaps once the developers have everything in (including bandits) they will be ready to start increasing entity counts or giving players the option to easily do so. Until then they have given the option by making it exposed to the xmls.

There is no fix necessary. It is just a matter of preference and they have given us the means to change the current game to better match our preferences. Install the modlet and be satisfied until/if the devs increase the counts themselves.

To the OP... I would wait to increase the zombie counts until you feel you have a better handle on the PC version but once you do the sky's the limit to what you can have depending on your own limitations and it is extremely simple to add such a modlet to your files.

 

[Adam the Waster]

I don't know what you're talking about. My game has loads of zombies because the PC has one super important advantage over the Xbox version and anyone who plays the PC version with not enough zombies to their liking is seriously short changing themselves. This game was made to be modded and there are a number of modlets that increase zombie counts-- double, 4x, 8x, 16x...whatever you want. Just do it. Much more productive than using every single thread to repeat yourself ad nauseum.
And in case anyone is worried that I'm trying to repress this feedback don't concern yourself. The devs know. They are fully aware of the zombie counts and how players feel about it. They've definitely heard. There is no need to continue beating this dead horse in every single thread you visit.

but iv walked into the forest once and travled to another biome. and iv only encounted 2

hell i found more hogs then zombies

 

[Roland]

but iv walked into the forest once and travled to another biome. and iv only encounted 2
hell i found more hogs then zombies

I haven't encountered low zombie counts like that even in vanilla but of course anything is possible. But like I said, the game does have zombies-- even if it only 2 in your particular area of the forest and if you want more than what vanilla offers the developers have offered means to get more. Editing the zombie counts in the xml files is not even really modding in the classic sense.

You can think of the xml files as a very detailed options menu and all you have to do to get more zombies is change the numbers to what you want them to be. You just have to go to the option screen known as spawning.xml and play with the numbers. You don't have to change any code or write any code.

Or you can get a single modlet folder from someone who has already changed the numbers and place it in your mods folder and it's done. The modlet will change the numbers to 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x depending on what you chose.

This is not a matter of whether the devs have fixed anything or haven't fixed anything. All the devs did was choose what numbers they felt they could broadly support. You can go in and simply change those numbers. Madmole even said to please do so if you want more zombies. This is what people who are ignorant of the xmls don't understand. They don't understand that exposing values for game features to the xml IS the devs giving us permission to create new options for ourselves in the game. The fact that you can go in and just change those zombie spawn numbers and the respawn delay numbers to get what you want is a gift from the developers. Nobody who increases the zombie counts is going behind the back of the developers and fixing their game for them....

You have dev permission.

You have my permission.

Now you just have to permit yourself.

 

[Adam the Waster]

I haven't encountered low zombie counts like that even in vanilla but of course anything is possible. But like I said, the game does have zombies-- even if it only 2 in your particular area of the forest and if you want more than what vanilla offers the developers have offered means to get more. Editing the zombie counts in the xml files in not even really modding in the classic sense.
You can think of the xml files as a very detailed options menu and all you have to do to get more zombies is change the numbers to what you want them to be. You just have to go to the option screen known as spawning.xml and play with the numbers. You don't have to change any code or write any code.

Or you can get a single modlet folder from someone who has already changed the numbers and place it in your mods folder and its done. The modlet will change the numbers to 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x depending on what you chose.

This is not a matter of whether the devs have fixed anything or haven't fixed anything. All the devs did was choose what numbers they felt they could broadly support. You can go in and simply change those numbers. Madmole even said to please do so if you want more zombies.

You have dev permission.

You have my permission.

Now you just have to permit yourself.

sweet. it may take me a while to try to finger it out. but thank you.

im just used to "when i played console 7DTD" you could change the spawn rates in game, im always scared to mess with files but thats just me.

again thank you

 

[Ghostlight]

I don't know what you're talking about. My game has loads of zombies because the PC has one super important advantage over the Xbox version and anyone who plays the PC version with not enough zombies to their liking is seriously short changing themselves. This game was made to be modded and there are a number of modlets that increase zombie counts-- double, 4x, 8x, 16x...whatever you want. Just do it. Much more productive than using every single thread to repeat yourself ad nauseum.

This is an alpha. We are testers. My feedback on the game becomes irrelevant if I start modding stuff. Also we don't just need a ton more wandering zombies, that's still pointless if I can dodge around them, we need their old A16 ability to home in on the player from afar as well. Is that moddable?

And in case anyone is worried that I'm trying to repress this feedback don't concern yourself. The devs know. They are fully aware of the zombie counts and how players feel about it. They've definitely heard. There is no need to continue beating this dead horse in every single thread you visit.

Good news. Still seems reasonable to warn a new player though.

 

[Ghostlight]

Thank you everyone. I may be asking later on how to increase zombies. And I did find that POI have lots of zombies in them where they didn't on the console.

I should have been more detailed when I posted about the lack of zombies. What they did was take all (most of) the wandering random zombies and replaced them with "sleepers". Sleepers occur inside POIs and you will never know they are there unless you enter that building. Once inside you will find them lying "sleeping" in the corner of rooms and inside cupboards and so on. This soon becomes predictable and results in little challenge. In the older versions the zombies were all over the place at random and would home in on you from afar once you entered building making it a lot more exciting.

It is now very very normal to walk across an entire biome and encounter only 1 or 2 zombies, but inside buildings you will encounter more, but in a non-threatening controlled situation. As long as you are not dumb enough to charge into every room, the combat will be minor and easy. If you do a controlled and gradual exploration of POIs, you will wake up only one or two sleeping zombies at a time at most. This is why most players dislike the change....sleepers are ultra boring and predictable and offer little threat. The days you will be used to where you could simply walk round the wrong corner of a street and find a dozen coming at you from every direction are gone.

Put another way, with the sleepers model, all combat is on the player's terms because he will wake a few at a time. In the old wandering model, all combat was on the zombies' terms because they were alerted from miles away and came in from every direction unstoppably. That helpless feeling that they will just never stop coming and nowhere is safe is what we lost.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

I should have been more detailed when I posted about the lack of zombies. What they did was take all (most of) the wandering random zombies and replaced them with "sleepers".

I also referred to random zombies in the landscape, not zombies/sleepers in buildings. There are little to no zombies in free nature. That was the result in OPs question what to do at night since LBD is gone. Simple answer: As there are little to no zombies occuring outside of buildings you can spend the night doing the same task as during days. You can even use the nights to build your horde base (build a completely new one or modify a cleared POI) as there is only little chance for you to even see a zombie.

In MP we usually loot buildings and then stack the loot together into chests in front of the building. In A18 you can just stand there in the wild sorting your items for hours and most likely nothing will happen. The chance that any zombie will interrupt you is near zero.

I recently quick tested the darkness falls mod and with this you can not stand 5 minutes on the same spot in open landscape without at least one zombie coming to you. That's the way it should be. And it was similar to this in previous vanilla versions.

 

[Tin]

.. Also we don't just need a ton more wandering zombies, that's still pointless if I can dodge around them, we need their old A16 ability to home in on the player from afar as well. Is that moddable?

Yes. Go to the eintityclasses.xml

Find this line for the zeds.

<property name="SightRange" value="30"/>

Change to something like:

<property name="SightRange" value="90"/>

and you will have more than enough coming to get you.

I think someone has already made a modlet for this, not sure.

Either way, its been able to be modded ever since they put in that property in the xml. <- not big stuffing it, just letting you know it has been like that for awhile, and is still viable in A18.x

 

[Roland]

This is an alpha. We are testers. My feedback on the game becomes irrelevant if I start modding stuff. Also we don't just need a ton more wandering zombies, that's still pointless if I can dodge around them, we need their old A16 ability to home in on the player from afar as well. Is that moddable?

Good news on two fronts. First, the devs have all the feedback they need to make their decision about zombie counts so modding that aspect of the game is perfectly fine. In fact, Madmole encouraged people to do just that if they wanted. Second, if you do increase the zombie counts and go into a POI you will see that they do home in on you from all the surrounding area. And as Tin suggested you could also increase their awareness radius.

 

[Adam the Waster]

modding that aspect of the game is perfectly fine.

thanks for your help for fixing that =D

 

[Roland]

Vultures that are sleepers in POIs will always attack you no matter what if you wake them up.

Vultures in the wilderness only attack you if your health is more then 10 below your max. If you keep your health close to max they will circle above you but not attack. But then if you get hurt and your health drops they will dive bomb you.

Vultures always attack you if you are in a vehicle. They hate vehicles with a passion.

 

[Ghostlight]

Good news on two fronts. First, the devs have all the feedback they need to make their decision about zombie counts so modding that aspect of the game is perfectly fine. In fact, Madmole encouraged people to do just that if they wanted. Second, if you do increase the zombie counts and go into a POI you will see that they do home in on you from all the surrounding area. And as Tin suggested you could also increase their awareness radius.

OK I'v set awareness to 200. If I kill everything will that be it in my current biome or immediate area? Cause that's no good either. They need to be coming constantly and never stop. Also how do I increase the actual wandering zombie count itself?

And when you say home in on me when I'm in a POI you don't mean the way they whale on the outer walls like idiots as they do now do you? I want them to find the way I came into a POI and follow me in. They don't seem to be able to do that right now.

I think the root problem is that the pathing algorithm has a limited range that it can scan outward from the zombie when determining paths, and that range is too small. Here's a test you can do to see what I mean. Build a concrete tunnel and stand at one end of it with a concrete barrier in front of you. Spawn some zombies at the other end, make a noise so they see you, and watch what happens. They will walk straight down the tunnel towards you until they are about 12 to 15 blocks from you, at which point they will suddenly veer to one side or the other and start smacking the tunnel walls.

Took me a while to figure this one out, but basically the pathing AI is not looking far enough ahead. It knows where you are so heads straight toward you seeing only a clear path because its scan range is limited. But as soon as it gets close enough to be aware of the concrete barrier in front of you, it suddenly knows that it has to get through concrete to reach the player either way, so heads for the nearest/weakest concrete block that separates you - this will be the nearest side wall of the tunnel. Hence the veering to the side. Note if you replace the barrier in front of you with something weaker than concrete, then the zombie will go all the way down without veering off and hit the weaker blocks.

This proves to me the path-finding range is too small and explains why a zombie coming up to a POI when you are inside (and it knows you are there), will typically not find its way in by the way the player did (unless it gets lucky) and just smack the outer walls instead.

 

[Roland]

OK I'v set awareness to 200. If I kill everything will that be it in my current biome or immediate area? Cause that's no good either. They need to be coming constantly and never stop. Also how do I increase the actual wandering zombie count itself?
And when you say home in on me when I'm in a POI you don't mean the way they whale on the outer walls like idiots as they do now do you? I want them to find the way I came into a POI and follow me in. They don't seem to be able to do that right now.

I think the root problem is that the pathing algorithm has a limited range that it can scan outward from the zombie when determining paths, and that range is too small. Here's a test you can do to see what I mean. Build a concrete tunnel and stand at one end of it with a concrete barrier in front of you. Spawn some zombies at the other end, make a noise so they see you, and watch what happens. They will walk straight down the tunnel towards you until they are about 12 to 15 blocks from you, at which point they will suddenly veer to one side or the other and start smacking the tunnel walls.

Took me a while to figure this one out, but basically the pathing AI is not looking far enough ahead. It knows where you are so heads straight toward you seeing only a clear path because its scan range is limited. But as soon as it gets close enough to be aware of the concrete barrier in front of you, it knows that it has to get through concrete to reach the player either way so heads for the nearest/weakest concrete block that separates you - this will be the nearest side wall of the tunnel. Hence the veering to the side. Note if you replace the barrier in front of you with something weaker than concrete, then the zombie will go all the way down without veering off and hit the weaker blocks.

This proves to me the path-finding range is too small and explains why a zombie coming up to a POI when you are inside (and it knows you are there), will typically not find it's way in by the way the player did (unless it gets lucky) and just smack the outer walls instead.

Im at work so I can't pinpoint the files for you but there is a spawn count number and a respawn delay number in spawning.xml. There are also values to increase the wandering hordes but I think their frequency is hardcoded but not certain.

Their pathing has been somewhat randomized with some zombies 'forgetting' long paths to the player and others seeing the long path. On horde night with so many zombies you can see the variation. When you only have a few random is random and you may get a lot that are forgetful and dumb. I did 4x biome spawns recently and there were a lot that came into the POI after me.

I think you should repost your observation in the A18 feedback thread and see if faatal responds with some insight.

 

[Adam the Waster]

Im at work so I can't pinpoint the files for you but there is a spawn count number and a respawn delay number in spawning.xml. There are also values to increase the wandering hordes but I think their frequency is hardcoded but not certain.
Their pathing has been somewhat randomized with some zombies 'forgetting' long paths to the player and others seeing the long path. On horde night with so many zombies you can see the variation. When you only have a few random is random and you may get a lot that are forgetful and dumb. I did 4x biome spawns recently and there were a lot that came into the POI after me.

AhOY

well i hope you do find those files so i can make every place as deadly as the wasteland!!!

Best of luck to ya

but i still personally believe that their should be a more "accessible" way to Up zombies spawns or at lease a base game way.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

OK I'v set awareness to 200. If I kill everything will that be it in my current biome or immediate area? Cause that's no good either. They need to be coming constantly and never stop. Also how do I increase the actual wandering zombie count itself?

Forget it. He doesn't understand the problem. Sorry to say that, but the only hope is that TFP-Devs got it better.

What he is discussing all around is showing that absolutely.

It looks like he is the public speech manager of TFP and just tells excuses to cool down the community but doesn't understand.

From what he tells, if he is representative, i conclude, the plan is to make 7d2d a dungeon crawler. On the surface there is little to nothing threat (besides the bloodmoon) and if you want to fight, go into POIs/Dungeons.

That's what he answered to my previous post he obviously didn't understand at all.

I usually advocate the "then mod it" speech. But if it comes into such basic issues, i do not! Zombies are a core feature of 7d2d and if i need to mod it just to have a reasonable occurence of zombies in the free wild, for me the game (balance) is just absolutely broken.

It has been different in previous alphas and he already stated it can be easily modded, so there is really no excuse left why this changed so much. So obviously it should be absolutely easy to fix, they just don't want to fix/change it.

Finally you can just ask, do you want me to play 7d2d or do you want me to play a mod of 7d2d, because vanilla 7d2d is boring. Do you provide a fully game, or do you just provide a framework for making custom games?

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but regarding THIS issue, it's exactly what i am thinking about. That makes me think TFP wants to make the game suitable for everyone. That never turned out good in history. Usually every game that tried to achieve that lost all of its souls.

Most simple question: Why can you stand in the wild for hours and no zombie is attacking you, not even coming close to you? Even if there is a zombie walking around in just a 50m/blocks distance? Is this REALLY an issue you have to MOD? If yes, what's the purpose of the game? Other then said splitting into even more tower defence (referring the amusing thread about 7d2d not being a tower defence game *lol*) and dungeon crawler in separate.

I'm a bit frustrated about the game. There are so much mods that clearly show what the game could be made to. But from A15 to A18 i just see switching (for me) planles changing things. There is no goal visible the devs want to go to, they just change "random" things. Most Mods from A15 up to now change more than the core game achieved yet. I'd even say it's more reasonable to play a "new" mod based on A15 then playing vanilla A18... I'd not say it became worse, i'd say it changed but i don't see where this is going to go.

Ahh, yes, maybe that's the wrong thread for discussing what i came to

 

[Roland]

Forget it. He doesn't understand the problem. Sorry to say that, but the only hope is that TFP-Devs got it better. What he is discussing all around is showing that absolutely.

It looks like he is the public speech manager of TFP and just tells excuses to cool down the community but doesn't understand.

From what he tells, if he is representative, i conclude, the plan is to make 7d2d a dungeon crawler. On the surface there is little to nothing threat (besides the bloodmoon) and if you want to fight, go into POIs/Dungeons.

I don't always fully understand you but there is probably a language gap. The problem I do understand. There aren't enough zombies wandering around outside to be interesting and there used to be. Its pretty simple. The proof that I do understand the problem is that I have changed the settings of my own game to increase the number of outdoor zombies. Ghostlight has been hesitant to do so and I am attempting to convince him that it is the right move.

TFP have to make the decisions for vanilla that they feel is right and it takes into consideration a lot of factors. They have plans for more entities being added to the game and so they want to make sure that they can do so. Once bandits are in and they have further optimized the game and feel they can increase zombie numbers and keep the stability of the game to the standard they want they will do so.

Some people love sleepers and some people hate them. I like them with the increased outdoor zombie count that I have set up.

I usually advocate the "then mod it" speech. But if it comes into such basic issues, i do not! Zombies are a core feature of 7d2d and if i need to mod it just to have a reasonable occurence of zombies in the free wild, for me the game (balance) is just absolutely broken. It has been different in previous alphas and he already stated it can be easily modded, so there is really no excuse left why this changed so much. So obviously it should be absolutely easy to fix, they just don't want to fix/change it.

This is what you don't understand. In this particular issue, changing the numbers for number of zombies, respawn delay, and awareness distance do not constitute modding. They are simply settings that can be changed. If I go into the file and change a 4 to an 8 then I am doubling the spawns for that biome for that time of day. When/if TFP ever creates an option on the options page that lets you double the number of zombies all it is going to do is also change that 4 to an 8. There is no difference other than accessibility. And putting in a tiny bit of time to learn something new can erase the accessibility gap.

In other words TFP already fixed it. There is a setting you can change to get more zombies because all the xml files really are are settings options. Its not true modding any more than me selecting 50% loot on the options page is true modding.

Finally you can just ask, do you want me to play 7d2d or do you want me to play a mod of 7d2d, because vanilla 7d2d is boring. Do you provide a fully game, or do you just provide a framework for making custom games?

Play what is fun for you, please. I don't judge anyone for using a mod because they are tired of vanilla or don't like vanilla. Vanilla is meant to be a full game in its own right but it is still in development and undergoing changes. The game is also a framework for creative endeavors and true mods like Ravenhearst, Darkness Falls, and Sorcery can be greatly enjoyed. But changing numbers to increase zombie counts is equivalent to selecting 200% xp gains. It is a simple settings change. The process for enacting the settings change is different but both are legit and to refuse to change a setting you really want to play with is outrageous.

Most simple question: Why can you stand in the wild for hours and no zombie is attacking you, not even coming close to you?

Why would you want to stand in the wild for hours? Just for the record I CAN'T do that because I have changed my settings using the xml options page and there are zombies everywhere for me. I'm not the type to withhold something I think is fun just on principal. I probably would if we were talking about things like cancer or human trafficking but this is just a game played for leisure.

Even if there is a zombie walking around in just a 50m/blocks distance?

If you want every zombie to be able to see you from more than 50m away then there is a setting for that. Not everyone wants unending interruptions from zombies like Ghostlight does. They don't want every wandering horde to guaranteed always beeline straight to the player every single time they spawn. They want them to do so sometimes and other times they want to see a horde moving in a random direction unaware of them. This is what makes the world feel more alive and less contrived or centered on the player. TFP reduced the awareness distance because they wanted encounters to be more random and not have every single spawn come straight at the player all day long. Maybe 50m is too short and it needs to be adjusted for someone like you and Ghostlight. Maybe someone else likes the breathers you get when a horde doesn't notice you or outside zombies don't come in to your POI.

That's what options are for and the xml files are simply settings options. So go ahead and change it to 200m like Ghostlight did and you'll get interrupted a few more times while doing your meditation out in the middle of the forest.

I'm a bit frustrated about the game. There are so much mods that clearly show what the game could be made to. But from A15 to A18 i just see switching (for me) planles changing things. There is no goal visible the devs want to go to, they just change "random" things. Most Mods from A15 up to now change more than the core game achieved yet. I'd even say it's more reasonable to play a "new" mod based on A15 then playing vanilla A18... I'd not say it became worse, i'd say it changed but i don't see where this is going to go.
Ahh, yes, maybe that's the wrong thread for discussing what i came to

Then go where you gaming preferences take you. Play a mod based on A15 for crying out loud. Learn how to change some xml settings and do some basic changes that will make things more fun for you. You can either spend time here demanding the devs drop their own priorities and plans or you can get going and change those options and have the game the way you like it. You can moralize over whose responsibility it is to deliver fun to you the way you like it or you can just do what works and change it yourself. To bring this somewhat back on topic...THIS ability is what separates the PC version from the console versions. We have an excited new player who left the console version to play the PC version and this is the PC section of the forums. Stop treating the PC version like it is a console version and you'll have more fun.

Or you can go find a new game. Whatevs.

 

[Adam the Waster]

(Thanos snap quote)

for some reason when i reset my game files. zombies are much more plentiful now.

 

[Roland]

for some reason when i reset my game files. zombies are much more plentiful now.

That's possible.

A periodic Verifying the Files is good especially if you've played through 18.0, 18.1, 18.2, and 18.3 without cleaning in between. There can be glitches and fragments that get lodged in places the sun don't shine and can have undesired but subtle effects.