PC Whoever designed ''dungeons'' POI deserves a raise
- Thread starter Hadecro
- Start date
Viktoriusiii
New member
Yup. Cheap horror and fake challenge... I mean... I guess its nice that there are zombies behind the TV... BUT WHAT WERE THEY DOING THERE????
Was there like... an open nutella glas in there and they ate it and said "ugh im so full I won't move a centimetre until someone else comes along" or something?
OR how did those zombies get up there... why are there these weird half ceilings that have no purpose in the world and are only there for zombies to spawn. Are zombies secretly CIA agents and they built these elaborate contraptions to get their next victim? I mean with the recent gps heatseeking A.I. its not too far off... but still!
Going to give you a star for that one!
Was there like... an open nutella glas in there and they ate it and said "ugh im so full I won't move a centimetre until someone else comes along" or something?
OR how did those zombies get up there... why are there these weird half ceilings that have no purpose in the world and are only there for zombies to spawn. Are zombies secretly CIA agents and they built these elaborate contraptions to get their next victim? I mean with the recent gps heatseeking A.I. its not too far off... but still!
Going to give you a star for that one!
This has nothing to do caution, its stupidity, because of course in the 7days universe zombies love to hide in places they have 0 ♥♥♥♥ing reason to be other than to ambush the player.
Is this canon now? Not only do zombies wait for the chance to ambush you but buildings have all been booby trapped... by ♥♥♥♥ing who? Damn construction worker zombies...
Telric
Active member
Why does everything in a video game have to make real world sense? Its a survival horror game. It's supposed to have a scare factor, and that includes ambushes from unexpected places... If you expect everything, there is no challenge, no reason to do anything. Then you'll move on to complain about how there is nothing to do in game.
Viktoriusiii
New member
"Caution" well you know... if you die tomorrow in your bathtub, because you didn't react to the meteor coming your way, you just weren't cautious enough.
There is risk and probability involved. And what kind of probability is there that there are zombies on an unaccessible, hidden, easily breakable top floor, which only breaks once they move, but never before broke?
Yes I am cautious. But you know what? After I have looted that POI I know all the cheap spawns, trigger them beforehand and go through it anyways.
You know what changed from A16? There zombiespawns made sense.
They still were far from perfect (zombies respawning too fast and randomly instead of for a reason, but at least we knew it was because of yet lacking features.
This seems more like eh: "Hahahaha! You fell for it! There was no way you could have known and there was no sign that there might be something and now you are dead hahahaha! cHAlLeNGe!!!"
Viktoriusiii
New member
you haven't studied gamedesign right?
Or have watched videos on it or anything?
Because this is gamedesign 1o1. It doesn't have to be realistic in the "real" world. It has to be realistic in the "made up" world.
So if I were on a paralell universe, where gravity simply affects things differently (things falling slower) I would not complain about beeing able to jump 4 meter in the air.
But when you are in a world that seems to be 1:1 to the real world with the exception of zombieviruses, I do not expect my guy to simply jump 4 meters in the air without a problem. If there is a reason for it... (like the air beeing artificial, the virus giving you superstrength or something) then fine! But without an explanation, those things are just artificial.
Telric
Active member
I mean.... yeah? That's a challenge... That's why it's called getting better next time you go in there. Next time you will know to check in places that you didnt when you died. It's okay to die in games ya know. That's why they are games. Learn from your mistakes... But nah. People just want to walk in, loot, and get out without even seeing a zombie now.
At first, i was walking through pois like nothing. Now i'm firing arrows into closets to make the door pop open to see if something is in there. There was a challenge of zombies popping out on me and surprising me and i overcame that challenge and got smart...
You said you go in and trigger all zombies before hand. There you go. You learned from your mistakes at the last challenge. That's what dungeons are... You're not expected to 100% perfectly do a dungeon the first try in any other game. Why should this one be different?
At first, i was walking through pois like nothing. Now i'm firing arrows into closets to make the door pop open to see if something is in there. There was a challenge of zombies popping out on me and surprising me and i overcame that challenge and got smart...
You said you go in and trigger all zombies before hand. There you go. You learned from your mistakes at the last challenge. That's what dungeons are... You're not expected to 100% perfectly do a dungeon the first try in any other game. Why should this one be different?
Kam R.
New member
Some stuff seems silly, yes, but it goes in a right direction. It's just that it's the same 3 tricks over and over and the same 1-open-path concept over and over and from what I've read they want to turn everything into this style, instead of keeping some variety.
So many options available:
-Leave some places "Quick-in-and-out" with low loot, just providing basic stuff and materials. Good for early game, good for "just a loot run" instead of "going on an adventure".
-Have more than 1 open path in dungeons.
-Don't make the path super obvious with the lights everywhere, let the player find it on their own – we're not stupid.
-Have some POI with NO zombies. Have other POI where you wouldn't expect it have tons of them. Or best: Completely randomize it, with exception of high tier loot POI.
-But first actually implement proper loot tiers/groups for POI to begin with. Why should I go through the intricately and beautifully designed, trap-ridden, dangerous Shotgun Messiah factory, if I can find exactly the same (if not better) loot in the easier oldschool Shotgun Messiah shop?
I'm sure they'll figure it out and if not, the modders will.
With that said. I like what we got so far, just hope they won't go overboard with it.
So many options available:
-Leave some places "Quick-in-and-out" with low loot, just providing basic stuff and materials. Good for early game, good for "just a loot run" instead of "going on an adventure".
-Have more than 1 open path in dungeons.
-Don't make the path super obvious with the lights everywhere, let the player find it on their own – we're not stupid.
-Have some POI with NO zombies. Have other POI where you wouldn't expect it have tons of them. Or best: Completely randomize it, with exception of high tier loot POI.
-But first actually implement proper loot tiers/groups for POI to begin with. Why should I go through the intricately and beautifully designed, trap-ridden, dangerous Shotgun Messiah factory, if I can find exactly the same (if not better) loot in the easier oldschool Shotgun Messiah shop?
I'm sure they'll figure it out and if not, the modders will.
With that said. I like what we got so far, just hope they won't go overboard with it.
I made my thoughts on that pretty clear in the parkour thread: is ♥♥♥♥ty and is just one of the many things spoiled in a17, jump hieght should be the same across all players (back to 1 block) and we should get an actual parkour system (grab ledges, shimmy instead). Just 'level up and you jump stupidly high now lol' dosent work for me.
Have to agree with everything you said apart from your closing statement, im (clearly) not happy with what we have now.Some stuff seems silly, yes, but it goes in a right direction. It's just that it's the same 3 tricks over and over and the same 1-open-path concept over and over and from what I've read they want to turn everything into this style, instead of keeping some variety.
So many options available:
-Leave some places "Quick-in-and-out" with low loot, just providing basic stuff and materials. Good for early game, good for "just a loot run" instead of "going on an adventure".
-Have more than 1 open path in dungeons.
-Don't make the path super obvious with the lights everywhere, let the player find it on their own – we're not stupid.
-Have some POI with NO zombies. Have other POI where you wouldn't expect it have tons of them. Or best: Completely randomize it, with exception of high tier loot POI.
-But first actually implement proper loot tiers/groups for POI to begin with. Why should I go through the intricately and beautifully designed, trap-ridden, dangerous Shotgun Messiah factory, if I can find exactly the same (if not better) loot in the easier oldschool Shotgun Messiah shop?
I'm sure they'll figure it out and if not, the modders will.
With that said. I like what we got so far, just hope they won't go overboard with it.
Otherwise some good suggestions for TFP to completely ignore.
I actually quite liked the sky scrapers in a16, those massive POIs with great loot? Sure traps and bull♥♥♥♥ spawns belong there, almost every single building being that way? ♥♥♥♥ no.
The difference between skyscrapers and the new POIs? Ones ♥♥♥♥ing huge and obviously going to be a challange... why does joe smith have a hidden room behind his TV full of zombies? -.-
Exxodous
Active member
You know you don't HAVE to put stuff in the slots that trigger encumbrance right?
I guess my question is, Would you rather have the backpack from A16 with its limited size or or the much larger A17 backpack that takes a little bit longer to open up?
It appears you would rather be limited to the A16 backpack with no room for growth or improvement. I honestly can't understand this as there is nothing "forcing" you to use the encumbrance slots before they are opened up via perks thus giving you substantially more space than in A16.
I for one think it was a well thought out design and better than the original version that had the extra slots locked.
I know exactly how the system works, its retarded: a single feather in eacb slot slows you when 1000s of blocks in other slots dont, thats not encumbrance its stupidity. Im actualy in favour of an encumbrance system but not with a slot based inventory: another case of the pimps half assing a system.
So as long as i take XYZ perks the game is fun? 'Choices', gotta love the perk system.
Its great that you want your inventory to be tiny at the start of the game, i dont.
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As usual with anything like this, i want options to please both parties (not that difficult in this case) instead of one group getting ♥♥♥♥ on for no real reason. The game i love has been ruined piece by piece by the removal of options and forcing the gameplay into a narrower and narrower experiance: example i would have never have purchased the game if i had know crafting and loot timers were going to be forced, let alone all these crappy RPG elements.
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Myrrah
New member
i just picture the new POI's dramatically. Like a "last stand" happening. People falling back and barricading with whatever they can find/hiding wherever their hysteria sends them to hide, as one by one (or groups of 12-ahaha) fall. until the last of them has taken refuge on the roof or walled themselves in in the basement. There to die as the virus overtakes them and their craving for nutella is taken over by their need for BRAINS 
Exxodous
Active member
I'm curious since you are in fact in favor of an encumbrance system, how would you design it? What is your "better" non slot based inventory encumbrance system? How would you balance it so ALL players love it?
Be careful though, not to big or you anger the hordcore players, by total weight and you upset the builders.
It's easy to yell "you suck" and not offer any constructive feedback or solutions, so I'm interested in hearing yours.
As to the tiny backpack at the beginning of the game. There are several modlets offering much larger backpacks that takes all of 30 seconds to download and drop in the mod folder you might want to try. There are even tutorials showing you step by step instruction on how to do this. It takes longer to watch the tutorial than to actually install one. Easy peasy and your happy?
Telric
Active member
"Options"... this game is full of them. It's just people dont want to put in the work to change the game to suit their wants and needs.
I love bullet drop on the sniper. The game doesnt have it in vanilla.. Do i come on the forums and complain? No. i mod it in. You might think it takes a "gamedesign 101" degree, but it is literally as simple as reading english. Anyone could do it. Take one weekend to learn basic xml modding and youll be super happy.
Modding gives so much freedom for options. Dont want those pesky dungeon pois? Mod them out and replace with non dungeons, or better.. Your OWN pois.
After you get done with basic xml, i suggest getting into the SDX modding. You can easily add your own sounds, scripts, models... Anything. More work? Sure. But more options at your disposal? Absolutely.
I can agree that not everything is perfectly tuned to my liking.. But i'm willing to put in the work to make it tuned to myself if i want. No need to wait for tfp to bow down to me and change things simply for me.
So.. Get to modding! Its fun! You learn stuff which may or may not help you later in life. Chances are it actually will. So.. Get out there and enjoy!
I love bullet drop on the sniper. The game doesnt have it in vanilla.. Do i come on the forums and complain? No. i mod it in. You might think it takes a "gamedesign 101" degree, but it is literally as simple as reading english. Anyone could do it. Take one weekend to learn basic xml modding and youll be super happy.
Modding gives so much freedom for options. Dont want those pesky dungeon pois? Mod them out and replace with non dungeons, or better.. Your OWN pois.
After you get done with basic xml, i suggest getting into the SDX modding. You can easily add your own sounds, scripts, models... Anything. More work? Sure. But more options at your disposal? Absolutely.
I can agree that not everything is perfectly tuned to my liking.. But i'm willing to put in the work to make it tuned to myself if i want. No need to wait for tfp to bow down to me and change things simply for me.
So.. Get to modding! Its fun! You learn stuff which may or may not help you later in life. Chances are it actually will. So.. Get out there and enjoy!
Viktoriusiii
New member
Thats not the point. I already know most of the spawns anyways, do one powerattack on a wall to lure them all out (or a shotgun shot)
and kill them outside.
No. No its not.
You want to know which POIs I like?
The rancid ones. The ones that are about to collapse... and you SEE that they are on the verge of collapse.
HERE blocks breaking down beneath you makes sense. You don't know WHICH block might break, but you can see from first glance, that there might unstable blocks. THIS IS GOOD GAMEDESIGN. I don't have to memorize every block in order to not be surprised by it. I fall ONCE and then I know that blocks can break.
It makes logical sense. In the world they created it makes sense. It raises difficulty. It doesn't need memorizing which houses have collapsing blocks. IT IS INTUITIVE.
Zombies on 1x1 platforms that are unreachable and have absolutely no reason to be there other than to scare the players DO NOT CONSTITUTE as good gamedesign. It's really not that hard to understand.
For example:
Take those behind the TV zombies. You COULD argue, that they got infected, hid from other zombies, turned while sleeping, remained there.
Fine... you know what? Okay.
But a 1x1 or an attic that consists of brakable blocks when walked on with 5+ zombies and no ladder or other way to reach it? Highly doubtful!
IF these blocks didn't break instantly! (or if it was just one or two unstable blocks) and there was a hatch with a ladder close to it THIS WOULD BE AWESOME!!!
But its not. Its random. Its cheap. And its lazy. And it ruins my immersion, because it was placed there by the devs to create some fake drama.