PC Bandits and PvP

[Grandpa Minion]

Will the 3.0 and 4.0 updates be created faster than 2.0? Or will the one year update cycle remain? In that case, 3.0 is 2026 and 4.0 is 2027?

3.0 is supposed to be the bandit update. Bandits simply can not be added untill the game is optomized to handle them
as the dev stated in a previous post "1 bandit was resource overhead to around 3 zombies"
so if you take this in to account:
A) current game max zombie count for vanilla is 60.... to add 20 bandits means 60 zombies would need to be removed- no one is welling to sacrifice zombies for bandits.
B) it now becomes a question of when will the game code be optomized to run bandits along side of zombies?
personally, i wouldnt expect the game to handle bandits any time soon and wouldn't be surprised if they are never added in.

 

[Roland]

3.0 is supposed to be the bandit update. Bandits simply can not be added untill the game is optomized to handle them
as the dev stated in a previous post "1 bandit was resource overhead to around 3 zombies"
so if you take this in to account:
A) current game max zombie count for vanilla is 60.... to add 20 bandits means 60 zombies would need to be removed- no one is welling to sacrifice zombies for bandits.
B) it now becomes a question of when will the game code be optomized to run bandits along side of zombies?
personally, i wouldnt expect the game to handle bandits any time soon and wouldn't be surprised if they are never added in.

3.0 is the bandit update and the game is already optimized enough to handle them.

A) 20 bandits at once would be overkill. They aren't going to be zombies with guns. A small squad of bandits will be plenty challenge. For bandit infested POIs with a total population of 20+ bandits they won't all need to be spawned at the same time. The only way bandits might have issues is on servers that exceed the supported number of players. Oops....

B) Easy. The answer is negative two years since faatal worked on bandits and had them implemented about two years ago internally, several months before they created the current roadmap and bandits were pushed to the 3.0 update. The optimized code of 2 years ago handled bandits fine so the code of today is plenty able to do so for all supported player counts.

 

[Riamus]

Yeah, bandits aren't going to be just a new zombie. They will be a stronger enemy with additional skills and abilities, so they wouldn't put 60 of them at a time anyhow. You'll get smaller groups of them (probably under 10) and you can still have zombies running around. POIs are easy. They just put the right number of bandits and/or zombies in the different sleeper volumes to not be too many, and the game wouldn't summon too many anyhow. Add in that the new mechanic for sleeper volumes that lets you have a lot more enemies in the volume and have them spawn out over time allows them to make a POI that seems to have hundreds of enemies in a small area while not having too many at once.

This whole doom and gloom talk is really old. Bandits will be in the game in 3.0. The only question is when we will see 3.0 considering we're already running behind.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

The only way bandits might have issues is on servers that exceed the supported number of players. Oops....

game supports 8 players
8x3= 24
hmmm...
24 bandits would = 72 zombies

 

[SylenThunder]

game supports 8 players
8x3= 24
hmmm...
24 bandits would = 72 zombies

Players, Bandits, and Zombies don't have the same overhead, so your math is not only flawed, it is completely useless and wrong.

Quit trying to make up facts where you have no factual data to support it.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

Quit trying to make up facts where you have no factual data to support it.

common sense is my proof.
if bandits where truly implemented they would have already been added and no im not buying the argument its because of 3.0
people have been begging for bandits over many many years if the game was optomized to handle them bandits would have already been added.
i really dont understand why you cant accept the fact the game is not optomized to run bandits right now.

 

[SylenThunder]

common sense is my proof.
if bandits where truly implemented they would have already been added and no im not buying the argument its because of 3.0
people have been begging for bandits over many many years if the game was optomized to handle them bandits would have already been added.
i really dont understand why you cant accept the fact the game is not optomized to run bandits right now.

"Common sense" isn't proof, and it isn't a fact.

The game runs bandits fine right now. I accept this because I have factually experienced it personally on the internal developer builds when they were working on bandits.

The game runs fine for all the overhaul mods that add bandits, and guess what? They're using the same code. They just un-comment out the entries and make changes to spawn groups. This is a fact. They've been doing it for years. The AI is just wonky because TFP is still working on that, and is the main reason bandits have been pushed back. Something you have been told numerous times, and choose to ignore.

The real issue here is that you choose to ignore the facts presented to you, and then make up your own narrative with fake facts that you just imagine out of thin air. And every time you get called out on it, you just move the goalpost.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

i do Believe the "code" already exists for bandits- i have never thought otherwise which supports my view completely even more..
if the code already exists and millions of people for many many years have been asking for it than what is the X factor for them not have added by now? The problem here is my opinion is that the game in not optomized to handle adding them in atm. I already did the math... and math is fact- no way around it.. (8 players with 3 bandits each would = 24 bandits) which is the resource overhead to around (72 zombies) max zombie count allowed is only 60.

 

[SylenThunder]

than what is the X factor for them not have added by now?

I literally just told you that. The AI system is not as functional as they would like it to be. If you look back at developer comments when it was delayed, they stated the reasons. They wanted the AI to not just be a "zombie with a gun", and wanted to have the ability to perform similar to a player by ducking behind cover ect.

The problem here is my opinion is that the game in not optomized to handle adding them in atm

That is your opinion. It is not a fact.

I already did the math.

No actually you didn't. You just made up some things and pretended that they related and were somehow a factual representation of resource overhead. Then you took those numbers and strung them together into an equation.

and math is fact-

Only if the values you are using for it are facts. Your values have no real basis in reality. It is only based on your opinion, which IS NOT A FACT. No matter how much you like to pretend it is.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

Only if the values you are using for it are facts. Your values have no real basis in reality. It is only based on your opinion, which IS NOT A FACT. No matter how much you like to pretend it is.

1 bandit overhead of 2-3 zombies is what faatal said not me- thats fact.

-in his thought max zed count would have to be reduced to 30 zombies to accomodate 10 bandits
that would mean with 8 players / 30= 3.75 zombies each
that would mean with 8 players / 10= 1.25 bandits each
yeah like i said earlier no one is welling to sacrifice zombie count to add bandits

 

[SylenThunder]

1 bandit overhead of 2-3 zombies is what faatal said not me- thats fact.
View attachment 34425

So you you planning on having hordes of bandits?
Has TFP stated that they are planning on having massive hordes of bandits, and this is why it hasn't released?

Again, you are just taking things and twisting them to fit your argument. TFP isn't planning on spawning a crowd of 30 bandits. And if they spawn in five bandits and 20 zombies, and that performs just fine, there is no issue.
Also again, we have overhauls with bandits and zombies running together just fine without a performance issue.

 

[HammerDano]

be hard to disprove what you are saying...but, it is not wrong for people to have doubts either. If the overhaul mod companions are just the bandits AI turned on...they would definitely need to refine them, they are not great. Since the limitations of the consoles has been expounded on...this is where I get concerned about how long it is going to take to get them in a better state than they are now...which was not good enough when they were just for PC. Forgive me IF I am wrong, but, TFP already removed some zombie spawns in POI's to improve console performance. Something is not going to add up.

 

[Riamus]

1 bandit overhead of 2-3 zombies is what faatal said not me- thats fact.
View attachment 34425
-in his thought max zed count would have to be reduced to 30 zombies to accomodate 10 bandits
that would mean with 8 players / 30= 3.75 zombies each
that would mean with 8 players / 10= 1.25 bandits each
yeah like i said earlier no one is welling to sacrifice zombie count to add bandits

Considering that was clearly a rough estimate, you can't use it as fact. Also, he said 2 or 3... not 3. Which means you are intentionally using the max number that was stated in a rough estimate, which is likely not accurate. If it's 2, then you'd still get 40 zombies with 10 bandits. And that's assuming that they aren't allowing over that 60 mark for an average of both bandits and zombies. They may stick to 60 max enemies while still allowing the overall overhead of bandits plus zombies to be higher than that. And who is to say they'll even do groups of 10 bandits at once while also having a lot of zombies? They may stick to wandering groups of bandits of only 5, for example. In a bandit POI, they may have only bandits. Etc.

In any case, you seem to assume that adding bandits to the game is only about making them appear in the game. That's obviously not true. There is far more to bandits that making a new enemy and having it appear in the game. If that was all there was to it, they'd be in the game. But they want improved AI for bandits. They want new skills and abilities for bandits. They need new bandit POI. They need to work on balancing bandits so they aren't too weak or too strong. They need to work on how bandits fit into the factions. And so on. There is a LOT more to it than just dropping a new enemy into the game.

Give it a rest and stop trying to make it seem like bandits will never be added. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

 

[Roland]

1 bandit overhead of 2-3 zombies is what faatal said not me- thats fact.
View attachment 34425
-in his thought max zed count would have to be reduced to 30 zombies to accomodate 10 bandits
that would mean with 8 players / 30= 3.75 zombies each
that would mean with 8 players / 10= 1.25 bandits each
yeah like i said earlier no one is welling to sacrifice zombie count to add bandits

That isn't necessarily what his thoughts were. That is your thoughts posing as his thoughts. He was simply giving you an example that if the game can run 30 zombies at good performance then it can run 10 bandits with good performance. He didn't say he was reducing zombie counts to 30 or that he would be even sending 10 bandits at a time. That's all you injecting way more meaning than the statement on its own conveys.

It may be that bandits and zombies will be more sparse if you are playing with 8 players at once. That is the maximum supported player count so those choosing to take the game to the max probably would need to expect lower counts of other entities when they are all playing together at the same time. Personally, I wouldn't play 8 players all at once as it would just make the game so trivial. I think 3-4 friends cooperatively working together to clear quests and complete objectives and fight together on horde night is the best player count and zombies and bandits should work great at that count.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

It may be that bandits and zombies will be more sparse if you are playing with 8 players at once.

i get it man people want bandits as bad as pvp players want some pvp support.
couple facts for you to think about..
A) there is no bandit that can do what a real life person can do in pvp
B) players already exist no xtra resource is needed to add them
hmmm somethings just make to much sense.

 

[SylenThunder]

i get it man people want bandits as bad as pvp players want some pvp support.
couple facts for you to think about..
A) there is no bandit that can do what a real life person can do in pvp
B) players already exist no xtra resource is needed to add them
hmmm somethings just make to much sense.

Again, you just keep moving the goal post when you lose the argument.

 

[Sapient6]

there is no bandit that can do what a real life person can do in pvp

That right there is the best argument in favor of bandits that I've yet seen.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

Again, you just keep moving the goal post

the whole goal post was by someone asking thoughts when bandits would be added and like it or not untill the game is optomized to handle them with 8 players on they will never be added.

 

[Games'n'Grumble]

you can see a great example right now that a person can play 25k+ hours in one game and not understand at all how games work from the inside and how they are developed. So fun... and sad...

 

[HammerDano]

sure pile on and flame the guy. he does argue from a selfish standpoint...and he honestly admits it. PVP was a part of the game once...that time has passed, but, damned if I don't admire his persistence...guy is willing it back into relevance. other console players might like a battle royal type of mode...idk...but to me it would not be worth distracting attention from finishing the game in a timely fashion.