PC Traders feel balanced along with crafting.

[Slingblade2040]

Spent a good amount of time in game and got tier 3 quests. So far the trader quest rewards along with the inventory they sell feels balanced and no where near as OP as before. 

The crafting also feels like it got the love it needed and folks actually have to craft things. 

Now obviously it's not perfect since I've already seen not just from folks on YT but also myself the trader having crucible for sale on day 4. Personally I think that either needs to be removed or only unlocked once you max out trader rep.

The infested cache feels like it can take a nerf with how much ammo it gives you maybe like a 50% cut. 

Food and water isn't an issue either. Which kinda sucks since farming is still pointless and same can be said for cooking. Full meals shouldn't be found in loot at all and same goes for any kind of drink aside from murky water. Only kind of food in loot should be canned food and seeds. Full meals and resourced to cook food should be available for sale from the trader. 

 

[BFT2020]

Spent a good amount if time in game and got tier 3 quests. So far the trader quest rewards along with the inventory they sell feels balanced and no where near as OP as before. 

The crafting also feels like it got the love it needed and folks actually have to craft things. 

I feel the same way.  Been playing vanilla so far and working on T3 quest chain now.  I think the only thing I would change are OEM crates.  They should always guarantee at least one crafting magazine and the Pass n' Gas one should always be vehicle crafting.

Now obviously it's not perfect since I've already seen not just from folks on YT but also myself the trader having crucible for sale on day 4. Personally I think that either needs to be removed or only unlocked once you max out trader rep.

I noticed that too, but is it an issue when the price of it is 15k?  For me, if someone wants to blow that much coin early game to get it to produce steel that doesn't have a lot of issues more power to them.  I been using my coin for supplies and magazines.  I could save it up to buy the crucible, but it would have little impact at this stage of the game (and steel blocks for base are just overkill on Day 7 / 14 / 21 hordes)

The infested cache feels like it can take a nerf with how much ammo it gives you maybe like a 50% cut. 

I think those are fine.  I have done 2 on T2 missions (haven't gotten one yet for T3) and I wasn't swimming with ammo after horde nights as I end up using up the majority of my ammo.   In fact, after the Day 14 horde, I was out of 9mm ammo and down to 30 rounds on 7.62.  I got lucky and found 9mm in the dropped loot bags.  I think people's experiences are going to change based on what they see regarding the offered missions.

Food and water isn't an issue either. Which kinda sucks since farming is still pointless and same can be said for cooking. Full meals shouldn't be found in loot at all and same goes for any kind of drink aside from murky water. Only kind of food in loot should be canned food and seeds. Full meals and resourced to cook food should be available for sale from the trader. 

That's basically how I mod the game once it goes stable

 

[Slingblade2040]

I noticed that too, but is it an issue when the price of it is 15k?  For me, if someone wants to blow that much coin early game to get it to produce steel that doesn't have a lot of issues more power to them.  I been using my coin for supplies and magazines.  I could save it up to buy the crucible, but it would have little impact at this stage of the game (and steel blocks for base are just overkill on Day 7 / 14 / 21 hordes)

It is a bit but sugar butts and awesome sauce usually being in most vending machines cuts the price a bit.  Down to almost 12k I think, if you factor in cost for those other items.

The issue for me atleast is that the crucible is the final item to unlock in the workstation magazine line. While yeah steel blocks is over kill for day 7 or 14 horde night, stocking up on steel from day 4 will make having that steel for gear, weapons, vehicles and other things alot easier by day 14 or even 21.

It also cuts down on the progression for workstation magazine from 75 down to just I think 30 for the cement mixer which is another milestone most players aim for. Yes I know Chem station but outside of reduced costs for recipes I don't see much use for it.

Yes nitpicking on that one item but by passing huge leaps in progression seems like oversight and something that could use fixing.

 

[BFT2020]

Thinking about that, I wonder if crucible would be a great item to make crafting / looting only (not trader purchasable).  I think it is till tied to higher levels in looting while still keeping it a valid option for crafting once you get high enough in the crafting tree.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

Now obviously it's not perfect since I've already seen not just from folks on YT but also myself the trader having crucible for sale on day 4. Personally I think that either needs to be removed or only unlocked once you max out trader rep.

The infested cache feels like it can take a nerf with how much ammo it gives you maybe like a 50% cut. 

Food and water isn't an issue either. Which kinda sucks since farming is still pointless and same can be said for cooking. Full meals shouldn't be found in loot at all and same goes for any kind of drink aside from murky water. Only kind of food in loot should be canned food and seeds. Full meals and resourced to cook food should be available for sale from the trader. 

I'm not sure why the possibility of purchasing a crucible for 15k dukes bothers you. You have to sacrifice a lot to make that purchase in the first 2-3 weeks as dukes are much harder to come by now. If someone wants to forego making other purchases and prioritize earning dukes I'm not sure what the problem is. I'm on day 18 and don't have enough dukes to buy it. I've bought books, mods, and traps from the trader so far. I've also done one treasure map and found the miner book that gives you a chance to find rare minerals. Clearly it's not a priority for me but I don't see any reason to deny someone who wants to prioritize it.

In terms of equipment, I just crafted (around day 18) a purple iron spear, blue pipe machine gun, purple iron pick axe, and blue iron fire axe and shovel. I found a quality 1 pistol in a toilet. My first two hordes were 90% melee with some thrown explosives and some shooting. In previous alphas I would have had an AK by now, a better quality pistol, a good shotgun, and the ammo to use both.  Not so much in 1.0.

In terms of infested quests, I've mostly been avoiding them until I get better firearms. I've run into 3 wights in non-infested POIs and barely survived each encounter.  I just did one infested quest and there were only some regular feral zombies so it wasn't a big deal. But don't forget that not everyone is going to be super experienced or skilled and may use much more ammo clearing those quests especially early game with crap weapons.

Finally, in terms of food, I set up a farm around Day 14 so I would have a reliable source of ingredients. I regularly consume the canned food I find and have had to supplement that with what I cook. The random cooked food I've found would not be enough to keep me comfortably fed.  Food was definitely an issue the first couple of days. If someone does nothing but loot/quest and is able to keep themselves fed, I have no problem with that. Moreover, finding stuff in loot plays an important discovery role. It exposes newer players to the things they can craft.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

Thinking about that, I wonder if crucible would be a great item to make crafting / looting only (not trader purchasable).  I think it is till tied to higher levels in looting while still keeping it a valid option for crafting once you get high enough in the crafting tree.

As currently designed, this would force people into heavily perking into intellect to get all of the skill books to be able to craft a crucible. I unlocked the cement mixer after the day 14 horde with a point in lock picking, advanced engineering, and buying the forge books every time they were available from the three traders I have access to. It'll be a long slog from 30 books to 75 books until crucible crafting is unlocked.  Before skill books were introduced I never put any points in intellect and would always purchase workstations from traders. I enjoyed the RNG element of when crafting would unlock. And I enjoy the RNG of the skill books but I don't think I would enjoy having to find 75 forge ahead books before I could craft a crucible.

Right now I'm shooting to have a crucible before the Day 28 horde. Of course this might not happen if the traders don't have it in stock when I finally save up enough dukes. And given that dukes have been so limited, I've completely been ignoring the vending machines. Maybe this isn't the right call but I've been saving my dukes for books, mods, and traps.

It's important that the game offers people choices. If they want to prioritize steel to the detriment of everything else, I think its fine that it's an option. If you get steel early, you are unlikely to have found/purchased the skill books necessary for steel tools. And if you manage to do both, you probably aren't representative of the player base as a whole. On Day 17, I crafted a purple iron pick axe. I could have crafted a Q1 steel pickaxe if I had enough steel (which I may have had from loot and trader rewards), but the iron axe seemed like the better choice.

The big difference in 1.0 IMO is that it feels like there are more choices to be made and I'm enjoying that. 

 

[BFT2020]

As currently designed, this would force people

Sorry, I was thinking about my mod out loud.  Obviously I didn't make that clear in my post  

My first post, I don't have any issues in vanilla as the expense of getting it is so high that I would rather purchase supplies I can use at that moment and not worried about stockpiling forged steel

 

[Riamus]

I don't really see a problem with it, but I do think trader inventory in early game is too high.  SMG day 2?  Really?  Sure, stuff costs money, but you shouldn't be able to but the top tier items in the first few days even if you have the money.  I do think the crucible should be available for purchase for those who don't want to craft it or don't want to wait for magazines, but it shouldn't appear before about day 14 or whatever average game stage you would have at that point in 60 minute days.

Besides, this is Rekt who isn't a gun or crafting trader.  He's a food trader.  He shouldn't offer the best weapons and crafting stuff until later than other traders do, imo.

 

[ElCabong]

I've never have enough money to buy that crucible. The only way I can see anybody having enough money that soon is they don't spend it on anything.

 

[Riamus]

I've never have enough money to buy that crucible. The only way I can see anybody having enough money that soon is they don't spend it on anything.

Heh.  I could afford it probably.  I've had 13k in inventory on day 3.  I don't but stuff from traders except rarely.  I always have tons of money and 1.0 hasn't changed that.  There is little reason to buy from traders, imo.  I just bought the three dew collector mods for one dew collector side I can't loot those.  Otherwise, I mostly survive on loot/scavenging.

 

[Adam the Waster]

Heh.  I could afford it probably.  I've had 13k in inventory on day 3.  I don't but stuff from traders except rarely.  I always have tons of money and 1.0 hasn't changed that.  There is little reason to buy from traders, imo.

We got to remember most players won't have that amount or will grind to that level I sure as hell won't

 

[Riamus]

We got to remember most players won't have that amount or will grind to that level I sure as hell won't

Grind?  I did enough quests to get a bike and I scavenged.  If that is grinding, then so be it.  But anyone who wants a bike from questing and loots stuff should be able to get that.  The ones who mentioned here that they couldn't afford it were buying stuff.  If you don't care about buying stuff, it is easy to have money.

But you aren't wrong. Most will not be able to afford it because most players can't help but spend money on any shiny little thing they see at the trader.

Day 6 and I still haven't completed the buy 5 things challenge. 

I saw a tier 2 SMG day 2 and could have spent all my money on it, but why?  I'll work up to it with loot instead.

 

[Scyris]

I kinda miss getting gear from trader quests thou, I feel that was a bad change, yes the rewards did need to be toned down a bit, but not completly eliminated, most of the time the quests give nothing of value to me anymore. About only thing I care about is ammo, crafting mag bundles or glue early game, maybe the odd food if I am desperate. I tend to rush for tier 2 quests so I can get the free bicycle. Kinda a letdown doing the quests now as I can never expect or have a chance of getting anything really nice anymore. I also feel forge ahead books need to spawn in more places, like tool, pass n gas, shotgun messiah, and working stuff boxes, as you need a insane amount of these to unlock the stations and they have a very small amount of places you can loot them from. I personally basically stop caring about them after I get the workbench as its going to take forever to get the cement mixer and chem lab, and the cruicible is the worse, I usually just buy one as I can get the dukes to buy one even in 1.0 LONG LONG before i'd be able to unlock it via magazines.

As for mods, I only plan to use 3 in vanilla, and none are really game breaking either.

60 slot backpack mod (its 15 slots more than vanilla, its nice quality of life that isin't totally unbalanced as its still easy to fill those 60 slots)

15 Slot tool belt: 10 slots is just not enough and its annoying having to go into inventory constantly to swap items. Its another quality of life mod.

and finally

Health Bars: just shows zombie health as a red bar up by the compass with its hp in numbers. This doesn't really have all that much of a benefit, other than really letting you check exactly how much damage your doing etc.

Debating on using: craft from containers, just to save me the time of having to dig stuff out of containers when I wanna craft something. I do lower the range of the mod to about 20 blocks though, so I have to be close/in the base to be able to do it.

Spent a good amount of time in game and got tier 3 quests. So far the trader quest rewards along with the inventory they sell feels balanced and no where near as OP as before. 

The crafting also feels like it got the love it needed and folks actually have to craft things. 

Now obviously it's not perfect since I've already seen not just from folks on YT but also myself the trader having crucible for sale on day 4. Personally I think that either needs to be removed or only unlocked once you max out trader rep.

The infested cache feels like it can take a nerf with how much ammo it gives you maybe like a 50% cut. 

Food and water isn't an issue either. Which kinda sucks since farming is still pointless and same can be said for cooking. Full meals shouldn't be found in loot at all and same goes for any kind of drink aside from murky water. Only kind of food in loot should be canned food and seeds. Full meals and resourced to cook food should be available for sale from the trader. 

The main problem I find is the enemies just have to much health now. traders no longer give gear for quests, so you have to mostly loot/craft it problem there is, to look anything decent you need to be in the snow biome at a minimum it seems, and as for crafting well it takes far to many books to get to the higher tier weapons, so many players are on day 14 and still using pipe weapons as rng has screwed them over. I mean not only do you need the books to learn the recipe you then need the semi rare parts as well. I also feel tier 6 items should have a big damage/armor boost over tier 5. especially if it takes a rare item to make it. I've never found a legendary part yet but looking at the xml's tier 6 of a item barely has higher stats than tier 5, only real benefit is the extra mod slot.

 

[MechanicalLens]

I think those are fine.  I have done 2 on T2 missions (haven't gotten one yet for T3) and I wasn't swimming with ammo after horde nights as I end up using up the majority of my ammo.   In fact, after the Day 14 horde, I was out of 9mm ammo and down to 30 rounds on 7.62.  I got lucky and found 9mm in the dropped loot bags.  I think people's experiences are going to change based on what they see regarding the offered missions.

Same here honestly. Today, for the first time in years, I mined several thousand coal and nitrate, and I'm converting it to gunpowder in my workbench. Meanwhile, I'm crafting out bullet tips and casings, and I plan on crafting at least a thousand more 7.62 rounds before the next horde.

 

[Riamus]

I kinda miss getting gear from trader quests thou, I feel that was a bad change, yes the rewards did need to be toned down a bit, but not completly eliminated, most of the time the quests give nothing of value to me anymore. About only thing I care about is ammo, crafting mag bundles or glue early game, maybe the odd food if I am desperate. I tend to rush for tier 2 quests so I can get the free bicycle. Kinda a letdown doing the quests now as I can never expect or have a chance of getting anything really nice anymore. I also feel forge ahead books need to spawn in more places, like tool, pass n gas, shotgun messiah, and working stuff boxes, as you need a insane amount of these to unlock the stations and they have a very small amount of places you can loot them from. I personally basically stop caring about them after I get the workbench as its going to take forever to get the cement mixer and chem lab, and the cruicible is the worse, I usually just buy one as I can get the dukes to buy one even in 1.0 LONG LONG before i'd be able to unlock it via magazines.

As for mods, I only plan to use 3 in vanilla, and none are really game breaking either.

60 slot backpack mod (its 15 slots more than vanilla, its nice quality of life that isin't totally unbalanced as its still easy to fill those 60 slots)

15 Slot tool belt: 10 slots is just not enough and its annoying having to go into inventory constantly to swap items. Its another quality of life mod.

and finally

Health Bars: just shows zombie health as a red bar up by the compass with its hp in numbers. This doesn't really have all that much of a benefit, other than really letting you check exactly how much damage your doing etc.

Debating on using: craft from containers, just to save me the time of having to dig stuff out of containers when I wanna craft something. I do lower the range of the mod to about 20 blocks though, so I have to be close/in the base to be able to do it.

The main problem I find is the enemies just have to much health now. traders no longer give gear for quests, so you have to mostly loot/craft it problem there is, to look anything decent you need to be in the snow biome at a minimum it seems, and as for crafting well it takes far to many books to get to the higher tier weapons, so many players are on day 14 and still using pipe weapons as rng has screwed them over. I mean not only do you need the books to learn the recipe you then need the semi rare parts as well. I also feel tier 6 items should have a big damage/armor boost over tier 5. especially if it takes a rare item to make it. I've never found a legendary part yet but looking at the xml's tier 6 of a item barely has higher stats than tier 5, only real benefit is the extra mod slot.

Forge Ahead is usually one of the easier to find, though it's been reduced in 1.0.  Any cement mixer or forge should have one and these are pretty easy to find.  It used to be that the other workstations also had them, but that isn't true anymore.  But yes, getting 100 of them takes a lot of time.  That could probably be dropped to 75 total and be good.

As far as health for zombies, I am not sure I'd have really noticed a difference if I didn't know that the health was increased.  I can still usually kill them quickly.  There are times when it is obvious it's taking longer, but I am always using power attacks to the head and doing that does a lot of damage, so it just isn't all that noticeable unless I don't get those hits.

I'm fine with the trader reward changes.  Those don't bother me at all.  Sometimes they do feel bad (1 food item or one magazine is kind of crazy).  But I think they are in a decent place so quests aren't OP anymore.  My only real issue is that quest sharing is gone for tier progression and the open trade route quests have strict limitations on where they can send you, which can lead to very long, very frustrating trips.  Plus, you have to get the next open trade routes from the next trader so even if you decide to keep questing at one trader, you'll have to keep going out of your way to do those... take a trip to pick it up from a trader that is probably far away just to take it to another trader that is probably far away just to then have to travel back to where your base is.  If you move your base or use sub bases, it might not be a big deal, but if you want to stay somewhere, it's a hassle.

You only need the legendary parts for quality 6 items, so you can easily progress your weapons up in tiers without needing those parts.  In fact, I can't see any reason to craft a quality 6 item that isn't tier 3.  As far as finding them, they are uncommon or rare, but I've gotten a couple by day 4 in 2 different games.  Just be sure you are looting all clothing and shoes that are on the floor.  You can get them other places, but that's where I've had the best luck.  I've gotten them in tier 1 POI, so if you're really in need, just hit a bunch of tier 1s in a row to quickly loot the clothing and you'll probably find some.

 

[BFT2020]

You only need the legendary parts for quality 6 items, so you can easily progress your weapons up in tiers without needing those parts.  In fact, I can't see any reason to craft a quality 6 item that isn't tier 3.

Wooden bows as compound takes awhile to unlock, iron crossbow for the same reason

9mm if you spec into handguns and going silent, as smgs will take some time to unlock.

 

[Riamus]

Wooden bows as compound takes awhile to unlock, iron crossbow for the same reason

9mm if you spec into handguns and going silent, as smgs will take some time to unlock.

If the increase in damage was significant, sure.  But the minor increase isn't really that important.  It depends how many legendary parts we end up getting.  I might prefer working on a full quality 6 armor set before worrying about the lower tier weapons but we'll see.

 

[BFT2020]

I got plenty of parts for armor and not yet able to craft them, so not really wasting them

 

[Riamus]

I got plenty of parts for armor and not yet able to craft them, so not really wasting them

What day?  I only have 2 from two different games but still in first week in each, so might see more before long.  If they are easy enough to find, then sure, I'd use them on any tier items.

 

[ElCabong]

Heh.  I could afford it probably.  I've had 13k in inventory on day 3.  I don't but stuff from traders except rarely.  I always have tons of money and 1.0 hasn't changed that.  There is little reason to buy from traders, imo.  I just bought the three dew collector mods for one dew collector side I can't loot those.  Otherwise, I mostly survive on loot/scavenging.

I buy things. Water and perhaps food to get me through the first night.  I spent most of it on the upgrades to the Duke collector.