PC The entire "bleed and bandage" mechanic needs a rework

E

enragedcamel

Refugee
I get that close-quarters combat with zombies is supposed to be risky. As things stand though, the bleed effect is difficult to detect in the middle of combat and the means to counter it (switching to bandages, applying one and switching back to weapons) makes for poor gameplay. You go from worrying about things like hitting zombies and dodging their blows and positioning yourself to avoid being cornered, suddenly to staring at your draining hitpoint bar and trying to remember which quickslot bar your bandages are at. It feels too... meta. It is immersion-breaking and unfun.

If the devs feel that the bleed mechanic absolutely MUST remain, then I would turn it into a stacking debuff. Small cuts should be OK to ignore, but if the player continues to get hit and the bleeds stack, then they should pose a serious and imminent danger. This gives the player the option to make a tactical decision between remaining in the fight and retreating to a safe location to bandage wounds. Each application of the bandage should take several seconds and decrease the number of bleed stacks (with higher quality bandages being better at the job).

 
This is how it's already working - except for bandaging taking very long or having a partial effect because that is obviously not always possible in a fight.

Whether or not you consider it okay to ignore a damage over time buff like that is up to you.

 
I feel like a mechanic like that would also tie in nicely with their new colored alerts for buffs depending on urgency, because if it's only a small cut it would be white but the more you get hit it'll be more urgent and thus a red alert. I'd prefer a system like that as it would certainly be more immersive and even player driven through their choices in combat.

 
This is how it's already working - except for bandaging taking very long or having a partial effect because that is obviously not always possible in a fight.
Whether or not you consider it okay to ignore a damage over time buff like that is up to you.
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I dunno, it doesn't seem optional to me, since even a single bleed effect is sufficient to kill a player (who is already injured from the blows themselves) pretty quickly. I have never received a bleed effect and thought "hmm yes, I can ignore this and continue doing what I'm doing."

 
I like having a bleed effect. Just that it has to be reasonable, and severity based for how long it lasts. Small ones maybe 30 seconds for a total of 30 hp, larger ones longer (or until bandaged). It's important you get notified properly, as that was too common in A16 you'd suffer a bleeding cut and never realize, and then suddenly dead and have no idea what happened.

/V -

 
I get that close-quarters combat with zombies is supposed to be risky. As things stand though, the bleed effect is difficult to detect in the middle of combat and the means to counter it (switching to bandages, applying one and switching back to weapons) makes for poor gameplay. You go from worrying about things like hitting zombies and dodging their blows and positioning yourself to avoid being cornered, suddenly to staring at your draining hitpoint bar and trying to remember which quickslot bar your bandages are at. It feels too... meta. It is immersion-breaking and unfun.
If the devs feel that the bleed mechanic absolutely MUST remain, then I would turn it into a stacking debuff. Small cuts should be OK to ignore, but if the player continues to get hit and the bleeds stack, then they should pose a serious and imminent danger. This gives the player the option to make a tactical decision between remaining in the fight and retreating to a safe location to bandage wounds. Each application of the bandage should take several seconds and decrease the number of bleed stacks (with higher quality bandages being better at the job).
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I find the bleeding mechanic very immersive, and I like it very much that it puts a lot of stress on you, also with the visual effects (though these are a bit unrealistic, you don't almost pass out after 1 second of bleeding). But yeah, you should get used to finding your bandage and then you have to make that split-second-decision if you want to deal with the injury or the zombies. I usually deal with the zombies first. And I have my "panic"-weapon (shotgun, these days) on slot 1 and the bandage on 8, so I have one tick with the scroll wheel to get to it.

 
Bleeds used to be even less obvious. You'd just die and realize you'd been bleeding out for the past fifteen seconds.

It's a LOT easier to notice now, and you should always carry bandages on yourself. Also, you should be getting the Healing Factor perk, as that can counteract the bleed damage at higher levels, and I highly suggest getting the perk to L3. By L4 or L5, you can actually outheal bleed, and that's a pretty good reward for going deep in the fortitude tree.

If you don't go Fortitude, don't whine because you die. Glass cannons don't live long by design.

 
only thing you guys are good at is Feeling that things are wrong for your liking, stop feeling and start thinking, and dont complain so much becus you suck at being guud at video games.. just get guud!

 
Only thing I have a problem with is the item swapping itself. It's always been sluggish and unresponsive in 7DTD. If that can't be helped, maybe having a few hot keys for certain actions could help. Like bandage/drink/eat, without swapping off your current tool/weapon (although you obviously wouldn't be able to use it in that moment). Would save a lot of annoying mid-fight scrolling cockups.

 
Bleeds used to be even less obvious. You'd just die and realize you'd been bleeding out for the past fifteen seconds.
It's a LOT easier to notice now, and you should always carry bandages on yourself. Also, you should be getting the Healing Factor perk, as that can counteract the bleed damage at higher levels, and I highly suggest getting the perk to L3. By L4 or L5, you can actually outheal bleed, and that's a pretty good reward for going deep in the fortitude tree.

If you don't go Fortitude, don't whine because you die. Glass cannons don't live long by design.
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The fortitude tree in general is very good and is worth getting 10 in the stat for it. The side benefit of it upping your max health is just a bonus.

Also how does pain toleance actually work? is it a flat percentage damage reduction? or is it just a reduction to how much of the health bar gets blacked out when your hit? The description kinda makes it sounds like both. If I had to complain about the bleed it would be that it just happens way to damned often.

 
The fortitude tree in general is very good and is worth getting 10 in the stat for it. The side benefit of it upping your max health is just a bonus.
Also how does pain toleance actually work? is it a flat percentage damage reduction? or is it just a reduction to how much of the health bar gets blacked out when your hit? The description kinda makes it sounds like both. If I had to complain about the bleed it would be that it just happens way to damned often.
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No idea how Pain Tolerance works, because it doesn't show up in the tooltips, just like how armor perks seem to be broken. Pain Tolerance is mostly taken for stun immunity, since you can't track the damage reduction.

 
I must agree with Chronosphere there, some things are not bad from a design perspective, but simply need some experience in doing them. Some people will have it easier, whether some will have it harder.

If you want to start juggling with a couple balls at first you'll have a hard time, though there are people who are quite dextrous and wouldn't have a problem with hitting off from 3 balls or more from the beginning. I don't have a problem with 2, but using 3 would be too much... But if i practice enough i'm sure i wouldn't have a problem going past that.

Here is the same situation, you're having trouble with swapping to a bandage, using it and then back to weapon. Most deaths usually are due to being surprised or unprepared for the situation. You could put weapons and bandages at specific slots to quicken the action, use mouse roll to shift quickly (like suggested above), etc. Practice the swapping and using of these things and at one point it'll be an automatic action.

 
Here is the same situation, you're having trouble with swapping to a bandage, using it and then back to weapon. Most deaths usually are due to being surprised or unprepared for the situation. You could put weapons and bandages at specific slots to quicken the action, use mouse roll to shift quickly (like suggested above), etc. Practice the swapping and using of these things and at one point it'll be an automatic action.
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Seconded. Ever since I was playing on PS4, I would have my first aid kits in slot 1 so I could just press Up then L2 to heal quickly. Similarly on PC I still have my bandages in slot 1, so I can either use the mouse wheel or press the number 1 to equip them in a hurry.

 
Changing to another slot is as easy as it gets. The delay is also quite nice because you can't just spam them while fighting. TFP though could in the future, let us reserve toolbar slots for specific items so that we don't have to re-arrange the toolbar most of the time.

 
Bleed effect shouldnt drain you as quickly.

It should be in stages.

S1 1hp/3sec

S2 1hp/sec

S3 2hp/sec

This is called counterplay.

Once you are bleeding you can decide if you want to risk fighting or retreat and heal.

Right now its

Get hit-> bleed -> run away&heal or die.

And if you can run away bc ferals/animals chase you, tough luck... don't get hit next time. You just suck.

 
That's how it works.

It's 1hp/s and it can stack up to 3 times.

Whether bandaging is worth it or not - that's up to you.

 
That is nice to hear, but too strong!

1hp/s

When a hit can do as much as 30(more on higher difficulties) and stun and you may not have full 100hp.

3hp/sec xD

Bandaging takes ~3sec.

That is too strong. It should not be an instakill.

Stuns are already a near instakill, depending on difficulty and enemytype. Then there are infektions and deathtrauma and heat/cold

I like that it is staged, but it should start slower, to compensate increase the chance or duration a bit or give it up to 5stages. Because 1hp/sec is a LOT, even if it might not seem like it.

 
When you use a bandage the bleeding instantly stops. The animations continues though, so you might feel it is longer.

 
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