Still Dislike The "Nowhere Is Safe" Philosophy For This Game

[Paiper Zombee]

Way back when the Fun Pimps said that they had the philosophy of nowhere being safe for players. This philosophy is what led to zombies being able to dig underground to circumvent players who built their bases underground, and what led to zombies being able to swim to circumvent players who built their bases in the water.

1.0 expanded the zombie spawning mechanic for the wasteland to all biomes and introduced the new way Screamers spawn from heat. The zombie spawning mechanic isn't an issue on its own, but when combined with the Screamer change, anything a player does is now an unsafe action. Trying to build a base is no longer safe since the spawning mechanic will spawn zombies near the location that will move in on the player. Trying to craft anything inside of said base is no longer safe because campfires, forges, dew collectors, cement mixers, workstations, and chemistry stations all generate heat. And mining is no longer safe because that also generates heat.

Now 2.1 introduces super hearing for zombies during storms. I understand that this is a game, but in what reality has a storm ever given something super hearing? If anything storms should diminish hearing. It's already a hazard to go out into storms. Now players who choose to wait the storm out can't even move around unless they want to draw attention.

I think it's time for the Fun Pimps to reconsider the nowhere is safe philosophy, because it's starting to ruin the game and fill it with artificial difficulty. I could understand zombies being able to dig and swim as a horde night action only, because that's the time where nowhere is safe. But outside of a horde night, no digging and no swimming.

Screamers used to be unique and special. Having one show up was like a mini event. Now, since all it takes is a fart to summon one, or two, there's nothing special about them anymore. A creature I used to look forward to seeing is now a creature I'm forced to see as a result of almost any action I take in game. It makes me wish there was an option to choose between the old way they functioned, the new way, or to turn them off completely.

I'm not asking for the game to be easy mode by any means, but it's gotten to the point to where a player can't do anything because everything they do is unsafe. And (at least for me) a system like that is not fun and not engaging. It makes me not even want to play anymore at all.

 

[Riamus]

Why should you be safe? I see no reason to make anywhere completely safe. You do have traders if you close their doors, but they're only safe when open. I think that's more than enough.

There are so very many ways to protect yourself that your arguments are not worth a whole lot. Just placing down spike traps at the corners of your base will kill most screamers before they scream unless they can see you inside your base. Putting other kinds of defenses can also handle them. Going out to kill them when you hear them can stop them before they scream most of the time, and if not, you have to kill about half a dozen zombies, which should be possible in under 30 seconds. And then you won't see a screamer at your current location for a minimum of 21 minutes, with a likely time frame of over 30 minutes because of the random nature of the spawns and the 4 minute timer between those random chances.

Storms increase the awareness of zombies. They may label it "hearing" just like they label it a "heat" map, but that's just a label. In reality, they are just more aware of what is going on. That can include all senses, not just hearing. Just like the heat map is more than just heat. It makes sense. If a zombie is just standing there not paying attention to anything, then they may not notice what's going on nearby. But if the storm makes them more active, they may notice things. Consider what happens if you're really focused on something and someone says something to you and you don't really hear them, but someone can whisper when you are paying attention and you hear them. It isn't about whether or not you can actually hear them better, but about whether or not you're paying attention.

Anyhow, build defenses and you'll be fine. Considering it is possible to build an AFK horde base without any cheesing of the game, it's clearly possible to make a base that keeps you safe enough.

I will note that with their talk about more options being added, it is very possible they'll add at least some kind of option(s) related to screamers. If you make a thread in Pimp Dreams and use a title that clearly refers to adding an option to disable or change those and provide a clear description of what you would like for game options related to them, then maybe the devs will consider it when they are adding the new game options. I'd recommend putting a very short and clear explanation of what you want at the beginning of the topic (if you add one), and then if you want to add more information, do so after that. You'll always get more people reading stuff if you put a ";tldr" type of thing at the top if your post will be large. For example, one sentence at the top that says you want an option to disable them or to change the heat required to spawn them or whatever. After that, you can give your reasons why. People tend to read longer descriptions if they know from the start that it is something they want to read.

 

[NiteVIper]

Why should you be safe? I see no reason to make anywhere completely safe. You do have traders if you close their doors, but they're only safe when open. I think that's more than enough.

There are so very many ways to protect yourself that your arguments are not worth a whole lot. Just placing down spike traps at the corners of your base will kill most screamers before they scream unless they can see you inside your base. Putting other kinds of defenses can also handle them. Going out to kill them when you hear them can stop them before they scream most of the time, and if not, you have to kill about half a dozen zombies, which should be possible in under 30 seconds. And then you won't see a screamer at your current location for a minimum of 21 minutes, with a likely time frame of over 30 minutes because of the random nature of the spawns and the 4 minute timer between those random chances.

Storms increase the awareness of zombies. They may label it "hearing" just like they label it a "heat" map, but that's just a label. In reality, they are just more aware of what is going on. That can include all senses, not just hearing. Just like the heat map is more than just heat. It makes sense. If a zombie is just standing there not paying attention to anything, then they may not notice what's going on nearby. But if the storm makes them more active, they may notice things. Consider what happens if you're really focused on something and someone says something to you and you don't really hear them, but someone can whisper when you are paying attention and you hear them. It isn't about whether or not you can actually hear them better, but about whether or not you're paying attention.

Anyhow, build defenses and you'll be fine. Considering it is possible to build an AFK horde base without any cheesing of the game, it's clearly possible to make a base that keeps you safe enough.

I will note that with their talk about more options being added, it is very possible they'll add at least some kind of option(s) related to screamers. If you make a thread in Pimp Dreams and use a title that clearly refers to adding an option to disable or change those and provide a clear description of what you would like for game options related to them, then maybe the devs will consider it when they are adding the new game options. I'd recommend putting a very short and clear explanation of what you want at the beginning of the topic (if you add one), and then if you want to add more information, do so after that. You'll always get more people reading stuff if you put a ";tldr" type of thing at the top if your post will be large. For example, one sentence at the top that says you want an option to disable them or to change the heat required to spawn them or whatever. After that, you can give your reasons why. People tend to read longer descriptions if they know from the start that it is something they want to read.

Last night I was at trader Jen and was followed by a roaming horde, there was a couple that was able to climb on each other till some was able to make it over the barbed wire fence. First time I've ever seen that.

 

[Riamus]

Last night I was at trader Jen and was followed by a roaming horde, there was a couple that was able to climb on each other till some was able to make it over the barbed wire fence. First time I've ever seen that.

Yeah, it can happen if you're chased there by a wandering horde. Otherwise, it's not really a possibility since there aren't enough around to stack up on top of one another. Kill a couple and even that won't really be a problem.

 

[MaxTunnerX]

Way back when the Fun Pimps said that they had the philosophy of nowhere being safe for players. This philosophy is what led to zombies being able to dig underground to circumvent players who built their bases underground, and what led to zombies being able to swim to circumvent players who built their bases in the water.

1.0 expanded the zombie spawning mechanic for the wasteland to all biomes and introduced the new way Screamers spawn from heat. The zombie spawning mechanic isn't an issue on its own, but when combined with the Screamer change, anything a player does is now an unsafe action. Trying to build a base is no longer safe since the spawning mechanic will spawn zombies near the location that will move in on the player. Trying to craft anything inside of said base is no longer safe because campfires, forges, dew collectors, cement mixers, workstations, and chemistry stations all generate heat. And mining is no longer safe because that also generates heat.

Now 2.1 introduces super hearing for zombies during storms. I understand that this is a game, but in what reality has a storm ever given something super hearing? If anything storms should diminish hearing. It's already a hazard to go out into storms. Now players who choose to wait the storm out can't even move around unless they want to draw attention.

I think it's time for the Fun Pimps to reconsider the nowhere is safe philosophy, because it's starting to ruin the game and fill it with artificial difficulty. I could understand zombies being able to dig and swim as a horde night action only, because that's the time where nowhere is safe. But outside of a horde night, no digging and no swimming.

Screamers used to be unique and special. Having one show up was like a mini event. Now, since all it takes is a fart to summon one, or two, there's nothing special about them anymore. A creature I used to look forward to seeing is now a creature I'm forced to see as a result of almost any action I take in game. It makes me wish there was an option to choose between the old way they functioned, the new way, or to turn them off completely.

I'm not asking for the game to be easy mode by any means, but it's gotten to the point to where a player can't do anything because everything they do is unsafe. And (at least for me) a system like that is not fun and not engaging. It makes me not even want to play anymore at all.

Hehe, my man right there. Ive been saying this for ages and this time Im really trying hard to make those things happen one way or another (mostly by aggresively asking for help in making a mod or making the devs themselves add the option into the game). And of course, Im only asking for the OPTION for the game to be like that, not forcing other people to do it my way in case they dont like it.

As far as present goes, you can do several things. Set block damage to 0 (which is basically 1 damage for whatever illogical reason the game has), or use a mod that does this and makes enemies not target the blocks directly. Still gonna encounter problems with a lot of zombies around but so far there is nothing better that I know of. There is also an "indestructible blocks" mod, but it only works for some versions. And last but not least, you can do what Im forced to do everytime I want to play the game, enemy spawning = off. This turns the game into a hunting simulator (watch out for bears BTW) but its the best and only vanilla thing you can do. As for future, lets make it happen!

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Way back when the Fun Pimps said that they had the philosophy of nowhere being safe for players. This philosophy is what led to zombies being able to dig underground to circumvent players who built their bases underground, and what led to zombies being able to swim to circumvent players who built their bases in the water.

1.0 expanded the zombie spawning mechanic for the wasteland to all biomes and introduced the new way Screamers spawn from heat. The zombie spawning mechanic isn't an issue on its own, but when combined with the Screamer change, anything a player does is now an unsafe action. Trying to build a base is no longer safe since the spawning mechanic will spawn zombies near the location that will move in on the player. Trying to craft anything inside of said base is no longer safe because campfires, forges, dew collectors, cement mixers, workstations, and chemistry stations all generate heat. And mining is no longer safe because that also generates heat.

Now 2.1 introduces super hearing for zombies during storms. I understand that this is a game, but in what reality has a storm ever given something super hearing? If anything storms should diminish hearing. It's already a hazard to go out into storms. Now players who choose to wait the storm out can't even move around unless they want to draw attention.

I think it's time for the Fun Pimps to reconsider the nowhere is safe philosophy, because it's starting to ruin the game and fill it with artificial difficulty. I could understand zombies being able to dig and swim as a horde night action only, because that's the time where nowhere is safe. But outside of a horde night, no digging and no swimming.

Screamers used to be unique and special. Having one show up was like a mini event. Now, since all it takes is a fart to summon one, or two, there's nothing special about them anymore. A creature I used to look forward to seeing is now a creature I'm forced to see as a result of almost any action I take in game. It makes me wish there was an option to choose between the old way they functioned, the new way, or to turn them off completely.

I'm not asking for the game to be easy mode by any means, but it's gotten to the point to where a player can't do anything because everything they do is unsafe. And (at least for me) a system like that is not fun and not engaging. It makes me not even want to play anymore at all.

I don't think your intention was to suggest that there be some place where you're perfectly safe from zombies and agree with the general thrust of your post, especially regarding screamers and they being in no way special anymore. Options to turn them on/off and adjust the heat index at which they spawn has been suggested and might be sufficient to balance out solo and MP gameplay, depending on setting, and allow players to restore Screamer's special status if they wish.

I have to wonder if most of these decisions weren't made in an effort to spice up gameplay for MP teams. Whatever the reasoning, they're causing solo players headaches, frustration and aggravation, which obviously isn't fun.

I've mentioned elsewhere that nothing really stands out in the game anymore. If special zombies are going to be treated as just another zombie variant, what have you got? A whole lot of blandness, imo.

 

[Space4Ace]

Way back when the Fun Pimps said that they had the philosophy of nowhere being safe for players... SNIP

I'm starting to think that anyone who feels this way should maybe just watch some YouTuber play the game... This way they'll be safe at all times... Just Kidding!

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Aside: Maybe some haven't received the memo yet, but not everyone is into 7 Days to Die or, even, video games in general for the math and mechanics. Some are in it for the aesthetics and those who are will be sorely disappointed in this game. So much focus is being put into making it appeal to min-maxers and power gamers, the artistically inclined and those who play more organically will soon have no other option than to turn off every option and just play in the game world itself, if that. Chaos for the sake of chaos isn't always better.

 

[grz__]

Way back when the Fun Pimps said that they had the philosophy of nowhere being safe for players. This philosophy is what led to zombies being able to dig underground to circumvent players who built their bases underground, and what led to zombies being able to swim to circumvent players who built their bases in the water.

1.0 expanded the zombie spawning mechanic for the wasteland to all biomes and introduced the new way Screamers spawn from heat. The zombie spawning mechanic isn't an issue on its own, but when combined with the Screamer change, anything a player does is now an unsafe action. Trying to build a base is no longer safe since the spawning mechanic will spawn zombies near the location that will move in on the player. Trying to craft anything inside of said base is no longer safe because campfires, forges, dew collectors, cement mixers, workstations, and chemistry stations all generate heat. And mining is no longer safe because that also generates heat.

Now 2.1 introduces super hearing for zombies during storms. I understand that this is a game, but in what reality has a storm ever given something super hearing? If anything storms should diminish hearing. It's already a hazard to go out into storms. Now players who choose to wait the storm out can't even move around unless they want to draw attention.

I think it's time for the Fun Pimps to reconsider the nowhere is safe philosophy, because it's starting to ruin the game and fill it with artificial difficulty. I could understand zombies being able to dig and swim as a horde night action only, because that's the time where nowhere is safe. But outside of a horde night, no digging and no swimming.

Screamers used to be unique and special. Having one show up was like a mini event. Now, since all it takes is a fart to summon one, or two, there's nothing special about them anymore. A creature I used to look forward to seeing is now a creature I'm forced to see as a result of almost any action I take in game. It makes me wish there was an option to choose between the old way they functioned, the new way, or to turn them off completely.

I'm not asking for the game to be easy mode by any means, but it's gotten to the point to where a player can't do anything because everything they do is unsafe. And (at least for me) a system like that is not fun and not engaging. It makes me not even want to play anymore at all.

I disagree, with this the world feels empty to the point that people install spawn mods, I'm not the only one, I don't know what was so special about the screamers in the previous versions, I remember seeing on youtube someone playing A 15 and it was non-stop screamers, for having active forges, I don't see any difference in this, I don't know what was so special about them before, the game is the opposite of difficult, and being safe easily would only make it worse, that the zombies can feel you better in the storms is fine, and follows the same logic of the horde nights, where the zombies know where you are at all times. In my opinion

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I don't know what was so special about the screamers in the previous versions

She showed up when the heat index hit 100%, which meant she was a fairly rare, "special" encounter. 100% was perhaps a little too high, but the fact that there are several threads now about how "ridiculous" (or whatever adjective) screamers are now indicates a problem as I see it. Those game options might help. What they won't help is the dulling.

Guaranteed, any topic comes up and the thread will be all about what this person wants or that person wants or what this person finds fine as it is while another person doesn't. Few are even thinking about what's good for the game and its overall appeal.

 

[grz__]

She showed up when the heat index hit 100%, which meant she was a fairly rare, "special" encounter. 100% was perhaps a little too high, but the fact that there are several threads now about how "ridiculous" (or whatever adjective) screamers are now indicates a problem as I see it. Those game options might help. What they won't help is the dulling.

Guaranteed, any topic comes up and the thread will be all about what this person wants or that person wants or what this person finds fine as it is while another person doesn't. Few are even thinking about what's good for the game and its overall appeal.

I agree to do what is best for everyone and that is in my opinion options in the menu, the special screamers I was saying it because watching people playing A 15 was a non-stop screamer, so I do not see what was so special about them, they come from having active forges and work tables, I understand people who like to play calmly and not be harassed constantly, so I always suggest the menu options.

 

[ElCabong]

I feel fairly safe in my base. Maybe not 100%, but 99. Screamers are rare, I am careful how long the campfire and forge run. I usually get them before they do anything. They are a pain I wish I could option out.

Didn't know about zombie super hearing during a storm. They haven't come in so fast I couldn't deal with them. I've always felt secure

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I agree to do what is best for everyone and that is in my opinion options in the menu

I get that. At the same time, "Try to please everyone and you'll end up pleasing no one."

It isn't always options, but the game design itself, imo. Did TFP think about the wilderness areas of the game when they artificialized water collection? Probably not, but I have to wonder why there are wilderness areas in the game at all. Few stay there. For most, it serves only as traversal space between towns and cities and, maybe extra space for bases on MP servers, but there's nothing special about it at all.

When people talk about the removal of "immersive" elements, they're not just talking about LBD or glass jars or whatever else. They're talking about things like mood and atmosphere -- artistic concerns.

 

[flam1ngd0tard]

Imagine if society broke down from a Nuke attack or Zombie Apocalypse. What are you going to do? If you try to loot the grocery store or pharmacy you going to take a big risk of being shot for your food and medicine. You wouldnt be able to trust anyone.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 2:25 PM

I feel fairly safe in my base. Maybe not 100%, but 99. Screamers are rare, I am careful how long the campfire and forge run. I usually get them before they do anything. They are a pain I wish I could option out.

Didn't know about zombie super hearing during a storm. They haven't come in so fast I couldn't deal with them. I've always felt secure

Screamers dont bother me. If you have electrical fences up on your fighting position just flick on the generator and then wipe out the screamers and their mob if they get a yelp out. Nice EXP too plus loot bags now

 

[grz__]

I get that. At the same time, "Try to please everyone and you'll end up pleasing no one."

It isn't always options, but the game design itself, imo. Did TFP think about the wilderness areas of the game when they artificialized water collection? Probably not, but I have to wonder why there are wilderness areas in the game at all. Few stay there. For most, it serves only as traversal space between towns and cities and, maybe extra space for bases on MP servers, but there's nothing special about it at all.

When people talk about the removal of "immersive" elements, they're not just talking about LBD or glass jars or whatever else. They're talking about things like mood and atmosphere -- artistic concerns.

Here I agree, before the forest was more important, now it's just a path that you go through to get to the city, since it is more focused on the trader and the missions, there are not many animals or life of any kind, models of plants and trees that gave a good look were cut, I hope the devs think about this, and the sounds that give an atmosphere of terror.

 

[Riamus]

Didn't know about zombie super hearing during a storm. They haven't come in so fast I couldn't deal with them. I've always felt secure

For reference, feral sense makes them 2.5x more likely to notice you. Storms make them 2x more likely to notice you. But they still have to be close enough to notice you. In your base in the wilderness, that's mostly going to be wandering hordes or screamers or the occasional biome spawn. But in a town, that can bring in a lot more.

Side note... I'm not sure if feral sense and "storm sense" stack. That might make for some really crazy encounters if they did!!

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I hope the devs think about this,

Me too. Don't want to sidetrack from the OP too much, especially given how many threads are devoted to "old" systems, but regardless what anyone thinks of LBD and glass jars, etc., their number one advantage is that they made the entire map viable. You can learn by doing anywhere, for example, but to level up now, you have to head to those town and cities because there are no newspaper stands and Crack-a-Books in the middle of nowhere.

I'm not sure how to make the wilderness viable again. Believe me, I've thought about it a lot, though I've given up on ambient sounds being much more than singing birdies and wind gusts because audio is always sacrificed for visuals in video games nowadays.

 

[grz__]

Me too. Don't want to sidetrack from the OP too much, especially given how many threads are devoted to "old" systems, but regardless what anyone thinks of LBD and glass jars, etc., their number one advantage is that they made the entire map viable. You can learn by doing anywhere, for example, but to level up now, you have to head to those town and cities because there are no newspaper stands and Crack-a-Books in the middle of nowhere.

I'm not sure how to make the wilderness viable again. Believe me, I've thought about it a lot, though I've given up on ambient sounds being much more than singing birdies and wind gusts because audio is always sacrificed for visuals in video games nowadays.

I really don't know how to make living in the woods viable, maybe reduce the amount of books needed, and make the cities infested with zombies, making looting in the cities a life or death excursion, and the woods a "safer" area for other activities.

 

[Corwyhn]

Good points from many folks. To me it just says add more customization to the game via the start menu. And it sounds like this menu was limited up to now but they are changing it to allow more customization.

Personally I am more on the side of keeping things dangerous when I play and I fight at the same base I live at. I just don't recall many stories where the survivors go to a separate fort to fight the zombies and are never meaningfully attacked where they live. Now that being said my bases always involve an outer wall either built or improving an existing one then I try to place all my heat generating activities at the center of the base. So love things dangerous but love in game means to lessen the risk because that is immersive to me.

 

[Lax]

I think the idea is "Nowhere is safe until...". That is until you adequately equip/defend yourself. I feel pretty safe in my main base in the Snow Biome now that I have a T6 Sniper, T6 SMG and 7.62 AP for days!