PC So why are Hunting Knife/Machete weaker than wood club/iron reinforced?

Scyris

Scyris

Refugee
Topic, with Hunting knife being gated by a lv 20 perk, and the machete behind a later one being a steel item why are these 2 weapons inferion to a wooden club in the case of the hunting knife, and weaker than a iron reinforced club in the case of the machete that requires steel, a lv 60+ crafted item normally to repair (Though u can buy some off traders). Its yet another balance decision that just makes me scratch my head, as those 2 things require much higher level/perks to craft yourself, compared to the mentioned clubs that you can craft at level 1. If anything the hunting knide should have at least the damage of the iron reinfroced club, and the machete should be a lot better than the iron reinforced, possibly closer to 30 damage.

I mean you could aruge the bleed damage, but, you need to get high into the perk and hit multiple times and have it proc multiple times beofre it starts doing any damage worth an actual damn.

 
I think it's just because hunting/machete are harvesting tools. If they were better than the others, there would be zero need for club or reinforced club.

 
To be fair, in zombie lore, bladed weapons are less effective than blunt weapons against zombies as opposed to humans.

 
To be fair, in zombie lore, bladed weapons are less effective than blunt weapons against zombies as opposed to humans.
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unless...that blade cuts all the way through their necks.

 
unless...that blade cuts all the way through their necks.
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Hunting knife, yeah I don't see that severing heads, but a machete blade? been lots of movies where you'd see people/monsters being decapatated or otherwise limbs cut off by those. SO I guess the hunting knife being weak is excusable, but it should have at least the same damage as a wooden club, the machete however should have a higher base than the iron reinforced, just because of what its made out of. Probally around 30 base for machete, which puts it higher than iron reinfeced, but lower than sledge. Why its set for 20 damage is beyond me, it makes it completly worthless imo.

This problem is even made more apparent by how all tools harvest the same amount. a bone shiv will get just as much meat/hide/bone as a hunting knife or a machete. stone axe harvests the same amount off ore/stones as a iron or steel pickaxe or a auger. The only diff is the better materials harvest faster. compared to A16 where they not only harvested faster they also gave more resources as well, so you'd want steel or better an auger in a16 asap. P.s. The auger is complete garbage in a17e b208.. Might be better a tiny bit in 221, if it gets a dmg bonus vs dirt/ore/stone and also is effected by miner 69'er. Haven't found one to check yet. All I know is in b208 I was just scrapping/selling augers because of how bad it was.

 
Huh? My gameplays don't show a stone axe gathering the same as pickaxes and augers gain MORE than steel or the rest. I only use an auger to mine nodes, it gets more in the end. Not a lot, but it's more.

 
I agree, i think the damage progression for weapons should definitely be:

stone axe -> wood club ->->-> hunting knife =/-> iron reinforced club ->->machete -> iron sledge

hunting knife and iron club i could see being roughly equal. machete should be significantly better than iron club, and sledge should be slightly better than machete (due to size, slow speed, stamina cost all being significantly more despite lower resource cost).

I also think they could probably nerf the sledge IF they added a steel-quality hammer-like heavy weapon

 
Huh? My gameplays don't show a stone axe gathering the same as pickaxes and augers gain MORE than steel or the rest. I only use an auger to mine nodes, it gets more in the end. Not a lot, but it's more.
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You in A16? because in A16 this is true, in a17 however it is not, I mind a stone with a stone axe, get 29-30 iron fragments, mine a same stone with a iron pickaxes, I get the same 29-30 iron fragments, steel? same thing just mines it even faster. You sure your not comparaing after getting points in motherload in a17? as that ups yeild for all tools. To test, Take a lv 1 char, turn on creative, cheat in a stone axe, iron pickaxe, and a steel one, and them use each on its own stone, record the iron fragments you get, it'll be 29-30 total for each or should be.

 
Hunting knife, yeah I don't see that severing heads, but a machete blade? been lots of movies where you'd see people/monsters being decapatated or otherwise limbs cut off by those. SO I guess the hunting knife being weak is excusable, but it should have at least the same damage as a wooden club, the machete however should have a higher base than the iron reinforced, just because of what its made out of. Probally around 30 base for machete, which puts it higher than iron reinfeced, but lower than sledge. Why its set for 20 damage is beyond me, it makes it completly worthless imo.
This problem is even made more apparent by how all tools harvest the same amount. a bone shiv will get just as much meat/hide/bone as a hunting knife or a machete. stone axe harvests the same amount off ore/stones as a iron or steel pickaxe or a auger. The only diff is the better materials harvest faster. compared to A16 where they not only harvested faster they also gave more resources as well, so you'd want steel or better an auger in a16 asap. P.s. The auger is complete garbage in a17e b208.. Might be better a tiny bit in 221, if it gets a dmg bonus vs dirt/ore/stone and also is effected by miner 69'er. Haven't found one to check yet. All I know is in b208 I was just scrapping/selling augers because of how bad it was.
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Wait, is this a thing ? Basically, if what you say is true, a bone shiv and an iron reinforced club is the only thing you need to not lose out on meat and to deal the most damage (bare a Sledgehammer) ? That's very sad if true.

 
Wait, is this a thing ? Basically, if what you say is true, a bone shiv and an iron reinforced club is the only thing you need to not lose out on meat and to deal the most damage (bare a Sledgehammer) ? That's very sad if true.
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That is true, iron club craftable on day 1 deals 1 dmg more than machete that unlocks on lvl 60 and costs forged steel to craft/fix.

 
Wait, is this a thing ? Basically, if what you say is true, a bone shiv and an iron reinforced club is the only thing you need to not lose out on meat and to deal the most damage (bare a Sledgehammer) ? That's very sad if true.
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Its true, however I would at least use a hunting knife for meat as its repairable, and you can save those precious bones for making glue instead. However, fire axe's have 26 dmg for iron, and higher for steel, i'd use those early game over clubs, maybe even later game too if I went for the bleeding perk, as the one that causes bleed DOES effect fire axes.

Now for the perks that up power attack damage on a stun, what counts as a stun? is it just the knockdown? in that case with how quick they get up its going to be hard to get the follow up hit. Or is stun something else entirely.

 
Its true, however I would at least use a hunting knife for meat as its repairable, and you can save those precious bones for making glue instead. However, fire axe's have 26 dmg for iron, and higher for steel, i'd use those early game over clubs, maybe even later game too if I went for the bleeding perk, as the one that causes bleed DOES effect fire axes.
Now for the perks that up power attack damage on a stun, what counts as a stun? is it just the knockdown? in that case with how quick they get up its going to be hard to get the follow up hit. Or is stun something else entirely.
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Stun looks the same as knockdown except they lay on the ground much longer, not sure if during basic knockdown zombie is considered stunned at any time, maybe for that split second when they lay on the ground motionless. Try having high stay down or shotgun messiah, they will lay on the ground for like 2-3 seconds insteed of just a while. Not sure however why bladed weapons have any bonuses to stunned enemies, bladed weapons (atleast not knives and machete) can't knockdown anything, maybe tools can since they are considered bladed.

Also, does axe/pickaxe count as a heavy weapon for heavy metal perk?, or that perk is literaly only for sledge hammer?

 
You in A16? because in A16 this is true, in a17 however it is not, I mind a stone with a stone axe, get 29-30 iron fragments, mine a same stone with a iron pickaxes, I get the same 29-30 iron fragments, steel? same thing just mines it even faster. You sure your not comparaing after getting points in motherload in a17? as that ups yeild for all tools. To test, Take a lv 1 char, turn on creative, cheat in a stone axe, iron pickaxe, and a steel one, and them use each on its own stone, record the iron fragments you get, it'll be 29-30 total for each or should be.
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Yep using A17. I always invest in motherload before i get to iron or steel. Would take months otherwise lol. You didnt specify starting at lvl one and spawning tools in, you said generally. im not sure about quantity on bonuses between iron and steel, but you farm much faster with steel.. so if you spend 10 mins farming 10 nodes with an iron and get say 100 iron total, and spend 5 mins farming10 getting 100 total, then 10 mins would double what ya got. And I've compared auger to other tools quite extensively, auger always wins in count of materials total from each node. More resources definitely means not garbage lol, it's doing better.

 
unless...that blade cuts all the way through their necks.
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I think the major issue with bladed weapons against groups of zombies is that they might get stuck in the zombie. Thus requiring more effort and time for a kill and could be dangerous if it gets stuck when there is a crowd.

Now speaking from experience when I was a land surveyor, I used a 1 meter machete all day, every day. I could cut down an 8-10inch pine tree, (think the ones in game that have 600-900hp), in 3-4 strikes. Sometimes two if you hit accurately and put some stank on it. So it feels weird when it takes an extensive time wailing on a zombie with a machete to kill it.

If you really want to think real life, then something like a 15-16th century dress rapier or a 19-20th century sabre would probably be the most effective. Certainly if they were wielded by a deft swordsman, they would be for more effective than bullets and take little effort per kill.

 
The thing that used to give knives an edge over clubs pre Alpha 17 was their relatively high chance to decapitate, especially late game once you pick up perks for it. The thing that was great about clubs was the more reliable damage and attack animation.

 
I think that stating for machete to be a harvesting tool is false. It is multifunctional just like the hammer is - it breaks blocks well, so you don't need to take pickaxe and axe with you. Both are the end-game melee weapons and I think both must be equally good at killing zombies.

The best melee weapon in Walking dead series is a blade of Michonne, just look at it!

Now you have a better speed with perks for machete, but the knockdown perk for clubs is OP compared to anything the blade can do.

I think the problem is bleeding - it is too weak/unpractical. For a fight with zombies you need an immediate help, like the hammers do - they "paralyze" the zombies for few (!) seconds. And this bleeding looks ridiculous - they are slowly dying while your hp drops down from their hits.

The dismemberment is good but the better range could be better (look at the Michonne video I gave you). As for animation now its better for machetes than it was in A16. Actually I fight with machete a lot, because I like it but when I try a sledgehammer - it always feels easier to fight with it.

I think something must be done to improve bladed weapons ...

Meanwhile I have a suggestion: to make an additional sneak damage bonus with machetes which is logical - when you have time to aim, its easier to make more damage with bladed weapons, to decapitate the target.

Right now sledgehammers are MUCH better for sneaking - the range is better, the damage for 1 hit as well - for sneak damage only the damage per hit is important. And sneaky character with a sledgehammer feels wrong and funny :D , however it is MUCH more effective - you can take your foes down from a bigger range which is very important when sneaking, and the initial damage is twice better than machetes :( .

 
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The best melee weapon in Walking dead series is a blade of Michonne, just look at it!

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That is TV. That would be a horrible weapon for zombies really. It is certainly not a utility blade by any sense. That will require a crap ton of edge maintenance and will eventually fail after prolonged use.

 
That is TV. That would be a horrible weapon for zombies really. It is certainly not a utility blade by any sense. That will require a crap ton of edge maintenance and will eventually fail after prolonged use.
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Yeah lol. I mean this is a video game, but still.

And I think the argument of a harvesting tool remains, I doubt you're breaking blocks with a machete, as much as breaking a block with a bone shive or a hunting knife. The sledge hammer doesn't harvest animals. Harvest != breaking blocks. If the machete did better than the sledge/clubs then why the hell use anything but the machete? There has to be some sort of trade off. I fidn the machete does decent enough damage to zombies to be viable, but using a stamina hog which doesn't harvest should be a little bit better. Plus, machete has more mods than a sledge I think.

 
The TV for zombie world creates the LORE. I was answerring to this guy

To be fair, in zombie lore, bladed weapons are less effective than blunt weapons against zombies as opposed to humans.
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He is wrong, according to zombie lore the bladed weapons are perhaps the best weapons. The clubs are just much easier to make - that is why it is logical to see so many of them.

 
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