So TFP, you ever plan to address the main progression issue in 7dtd?

[Scyris]

I been wondering this for a while, but are the devs ever going to actually address the progression issue 7dtd has had for ages? This will be sort of long.

The progression issue is mainly that no one goes to other biomes because there is no real reason to, you can craft every item in the forest, there is no reason to go to other biomes for anything, so most people just stay in the forest, most other survival games have unique gear and materials in each biome that can only be found there and is used directly to progress, EG Valheim, Terraria, many other games do this. This would make people want to go into the other biomes as currently there is no reason to. This problem has been made worse with 2.0, as what is the point of making these biomes even more annoying to go into when people already have no reason to go into them in the first place? I'd bet if TFP ran a poll most people prob play with biome progression off, as its pretty much a useless pointless game system in the games current state. Honestly, the only things I care about in 2.0 is the better performance as it was very noticable good job on that TFP, and the cosmetic system, the rest of the stuff in 2.0 is mostly worthless, mainly because the mentioned progression issue or lack of progression by biome exploration.

The game is still alpha so there is still time to change the game for the better. Yes they may not call it alpha but it is by definition of what a alpha state game means. Were prob on a22 or a23 right now I think? a21, then 1.0 was alpha 22 then 2.0 is alpha 23.

 

[theFlu]

Incoming solutions:

Take out steel from forest and burnt. (Either replacing the blocks that give it, or tying the drop rate to biome/loot stage)
Stop dropping magazines for high tier stuff (especially crucible) in the lower biomes. Will need duplicating the magazine sets, as otherwise you'd just gather all of them before reading them, like lockpicking+forge ahead.

A permanent pine forest storm starts to expand from the center of the biome, pushing players out like an inverse battle royale. That's a great mechanic!

 

[Kazgrel]

Has OP played 2.0 at all? You can see within bits of biome progression how they're shifting resources around to be more plentiful in other biomes, which is an aspect of the progression I'm in favor of. Loot stage caps (and it's lack of bio e bonus) make the pine forest terrible for looting. I suppose if someone wants to drag out a playthrough as long as possible, they could never leave the pine forest...

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@theFlu If they pick up your idea of the storm pushing us out, i will find you.

Problem is also how the biomes look. The only one that i could stand to look at every single day besides the forest, is the snow biome. No problems going to other biomes for quests/looting and hordenight. We do that all the time.

 

[Riamus]

Yeah, aesthetics play the biggest role in where I have my base. They could make the forest the highest tier biome and I'd still build there.

 

[theFlu]

The only one that i could stand to look at every single day besides the forest, is the snow biome.

I kinda like desert more than snow, but they're close for me.

 

[Vaeliorin]

Take out steel from forest and burnt. (Either replacing the blocks that give it, or tying the drop rate to biome/loot stage)

They'd have to get rid of the Perception mastery, too. I've pulled hundreds of steel with that

 

[Kyoji]

I been wondering this for a while, but are the devs ever going to actually address the progression issue 7dtd has had for ages? This will be sort of long.

The progression issue is mainly that no one goes to other biomes because there is no real reason to, you can craft every item in the forest, there is no reason to go to other biomes for anything, so most people just stay in the forest, most other survival games have unique gear and materials in each biome that can only be found there and is used directly to progress, EG Valheim, Terraria, many other games do this. This would make people want to go into the other biomes as currently there is no reason to. This problem has been made worse with 2.0, as what is the point of making these biomes even more annoying to go into when people already have no reason to go into them in the first place? I'd bet if TFP ran a poll most people prob play with biome progression off, as its pretty much a useless pointless game system in the games current state. Honestly, the only things I care about in 2.0 is the better performance as it was very noticable good job on that TFP, and the cosmetic system, the rest of the stuff in 2.0 is mostly worthless, mainly because the mentioned progression issue or lack of progression by biome exploration.

The game is still alpha so there is still time to change the game for the better. Yes they may not call it alpha but it is by definition of what a alpha state game means. Were prob on a22 or a23 right now I think? a21, then 1.0 was alpha 22 then 2.0 is alpha 23.

In those games you have resources you could ONLY get in those areas. Currently the solution is a DoT which takes out the freedom of exploration and kicks people out of the biomes they like into others for practicality.

 

[Slingblade2040]

They can't. Traders, loot and how resources are found in biomes breaks progression. They would need to do a huge overhaul to the entire game to be able to fix this broken progression system we have had for a few years now.

Oil is exclusive to the desert but you can easily buy guy from the traders, find oil shale in loot and at traders which eliminates any reason to go there.

Traders also sell work stations and the main part of the forge which is the crucible. Buying those up eliminates the need to find forge ahead magazines which then has you skip a major amount of progression. Not going to mention high quality weapons and tools they sell since that further breaks progression.

Resources would have to be locked to certain biomes with no other way to get them, Traders would need work stations, armor, weapons and tools removed from their inventory along with having such massive amounts of resources for sale. Ammo found in infested quests chests would also need to be reduced to try and get players to craft ammo again.

I seriously doubt we will ever see any kind of proper progression in this game. Going to be really interesting to see how the hell they will balance or make progression for the story if that ever sees the light of day.

 

[NiteVIper]

Before 2.0, I used to build my bases in the burnt forest, after an hour or two axing at every tree in sight, I'd usually walk away with almost 2 stacks of wood and coal lol.

 

[Kazgrel]

They can't. Traders, loot and how resources are found in biomes breaks progression. They would need to do a huge overhaul to the entire game to be able to fix this broken progression system we have had for a few years now.

Oil is exclusive to the desert but you can easily buy guy from the traders, find oil shale in loot and at traders which eliminates any reason to go there.

Traders also sell work stations and the main part of the forge which is the crucible. Buying those up eliminates the need to find forge ahead magazines which then has you skip a major amount of progression. Not going to mention high quality weapons and tools they sell since that further breaks progression.

Resources would have to be locked to certain biomes with no other way to get them, Traders would need work stations, armor, weapons and tools removed from their inventory along with having such massive amounts of resources for sale. Ammo found in infested quests chests would also need to be reduced to try and get players to craft ammo again.

I seriously doubt we will ever see any kind of proper progression in this game. Going to be really interesting to see how the hell they will balance or make progression for the story if that ever sees the light of day.

Much as I didn't like how OP traders were during alpha 19-20, they don't really need further nerfs, IMO. Having an alternative path to workstations is a good thing because having everything funneled into books is just...yuck. I mean I love going around checking the mail at every house in every playthrough...

The ammo from infested caches is an interesting dilemma. Dial it back enough to where it encourages melee to get thru the quest vs. guns blazing the entire time. Nerd it too much and no one will want to bother with those outside of seeing if they can do it or not

 

[Kalen]

Perhaps, when they finally add a storyline, the story will require biome progression?

 

[Kyoji]

They can't. Traders, loot and how resources are found in biomes breaks progression. They would need to do a huge overhaul to the entire game to be able to fix this broken progression system we have had for a few years now.

Oil is exclusive to the desert but you can easily buy guy from the traders, find oil shale in loot and at traders which eliminates any reason to go there.

Traders also sell work stations and the main part of the forge which is the crucible. Buying those up eliminates the need to find forge ahead magazines which then has you skip a major amount of progression. Not going to mention high quality weapons and tools they sell since that further breaks progression.

Resources would have to be locked to certain biomes with no other way to get them, Traders would need work stations, armor, weapons and tools removed from their inventory along with having such massive amounts of resources for sale. Ammo found in infested quests chests would also need to be reduced to try and get players to craft ammo again.

I seriously doubt we will ever see any kind of proper progression in this game. Going to be really interesting to see how the hell they will balance or make progression for the story if that ever sees the light of day.

Another issue is if you have biome specific loot then you have to make travel easier because depending on how your world shakes out and the size getting from one biome to another can take quite some time even with a vehicle.

Perhaps add things like oil to the desert and then use a vehicle to get to the wasteland where you can get advanced fuel for a proper helicopter (not the hank gyrocopter we have now) which can take you further faster and provide a reason to visit the biomes.

No idea. But either way biome specific loot would need to be accompanied by faster travel.

 

[Samcharles]

I just made a random game using lines which lines up all the biomes up so you have go through them all to get to the wasteland. I like the idea of progression.

 

[Roland]

The Op is either inadvertently or advertently asking for even less of a sandbox footprint to the game. If some players can just craft and are happy to remain in the forest forever, let them. If some players want to spend only an hour in each biome to quickly get through all the biomes, let them. If some players want to spend days or weeks in each biome, fully exploring them and finding all the trader compounds and clearing the high tier POIs, let them.

People already complain that they feel forced to leave the forest but the OP wants it to be even more tightly and stringently defined just because there are still alternatives available to following the biome progression? Maybe the storyline will require biome progression as @Kalen suggested but I bet people will play the story once and then come back to the current non-story gameplay we already have for continued playthroughs and I think it's fine that not everyone gets out of the forest and that the loot progression can be ignored by those who just want to craft their own stuff. Nobody has to play that way but I'm glad it's available for those who do.

 

[Dead Wombat]

well my 2cents is that i loved it best when you have a trader at every large town and they were not linked so i got the thrill of goin from trader to trader leveling up from 1 to 5. moving my base and starting over. Next the trader progression feels like a plot kludge forcing you to go to a different biome before you get really established in the previous. Also the randomness of the traders was refreshing... i do not want to spend ANY time in the pine biome cause i just cannot $%#$%# stand trader REKD... he sounds like my dearly departed father who was irrassable as a wounded honey badger.

 

[Roland]

I just made a random game using lines which lines up all the biomes up so you have go through them all to get to the wasteland. I like the idea of progression.

Be careful. I made a line map and the line went Burnt forest, forest, desert, snow, wasteland from South to North. So I had to go south first and then when I was ready to move to the desert it was a long move. I wish I had re-rolled that world but now I'm past that point so that's over..heheh

 

[Kyoji]

Be careful. I made a line map and the line went Burnt forest, forest, desert, snow, wasteland from South to North. So I had to go south first and then when I was ready to move to the desert it was a long move. I wish I had re-rolled that world but now I'm past that point so that's over..heheh

Making me miss the old patch biome where you would have multiple of each biome scattered on the map.

 

[Laz Man]

Be careful. I made a line map and the line went Burnt forest, forest, desert, snow, wasteland from South to North. So I had to go south first and then when I was ready to move to the desert it was a long move. I wish I had re-rolled that world but now I'm past that point so that's over..heheh

I think that happens because of the sizes of the respective biones. I think I recall Faatal mentioning the lines are ordered smallest to largest or vice versa.

For our mp map, we are running a line layout with a forest biome being the smallest of the bunch and biomes are ordered correctly the way progression is set.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

The progression issue

Most of the "progression issue" is that it has nothing to do with the player and everything to do with plotting a particular path through the game the developers are laying out. ("Go to these biomes in this order and meet these particular traders there.") It's where some people are coming by the impression, correct or no, that TFP are trying to force them to play a certain way for good reason: they're being asked to go and do things in a specific order. It feels forced, i.e. artificial. I'll try to explain....

Trader 'progression'; biome 'progression' has nothing to do with how players choose to navigate around a map in any other open world game I've ever seen. You can go anywhere in a BGS game, for example. Whether you're ready to face that Mr. Gutsy across the road from the Revere sattelite array or the Super Mutants in it is an different question because the enemies become progressively more difficult the further South you go in Fallout 4. If you don't level your character and gear first, you're liable to have a hard time of it. Same with Elden Ring. You can go to the Altus Plateau any time you like. Question is: do you really want to? (FromSoftware's restriction of the vast majority of weapons and sorceries and incantations in specific regions while leaving a few consolation prizes for every possible build in other biomes is a little dubious, but I digress.)

Levelling -- the character/avatar, gear, weapons -- is a separate concern from the way the player navigates the map, following their own curiosity, whim or quest marker or what have you. TFP seems to be trying to roll all of that into one sense of "progression." In fact, I get the impression too many concepts are being rolled into one in other aspects of the game as well.

It's been speculated trader and biome "progression" has something to do with the upcoming story implementation, but I don't see how. Those other forms of progression have little to nothing to do with that, either.