PC "Knowing is half of the battle"

Cadamier

Cadamier

Refugee
This is a "Book" written by: Conehead Cadamier!

Well... A lot of people have shared things so much of that will help - especially with skill point distribution.

I didn't see if you're playing Vanilla or have a mod installed. That would help too! Assuming vanilla. Length of day is a great factor too! Longer days lets you acquire more loot and progress faster! Generally I can get level 40 by day 15 when playing the longest days. But be forewarned that the nights and especially horde nights can be a long struggling nightmare!!! I can twitch a bit so that helps in my progression! So for instance in a 'cotton field' within a Node Site - I can generally clear them fairly fast and at almost a 'dead run' now. Albeit you'd have to get used to the hit-boxes since they're still wonky! Generally I can grab like 400 to 700 cotton in a day; and that's virtually all in a single day. But generally after I reach 400 I'll switch to nodes or wood or something else.

In this game "Time" is you're greatest enemy!

I know and experience that there are people whom only want to loot. In 'my group' of 9 we have 3 people that like that looting playstyle. And what you're experiencing is basically what they experience early in the game because they play that way!!! With our group they're more than welcome to do that, since 3 or 4 of us like the building, etc style. With them and wanting to mostly loot all the time they suffer greatly in any progression as you're experiencing. You need to find your balance. With me I like to mine and do a bunch of other things such as exploring combined with hunting! When I say mine/mining I don't only mean digging a hole in the ground - taking out nodes is also included. With hitting nodes - you can get more resources from them than digging a hole in the ground.

Wither I play alone, or with the group from the start I have some goals which are: Forge, Workbench and Chem station, tools to 200/300 ASAP. For weapons I count on loot drops, or the looters. Even with a 60 quality gun it's possible to get those mobs! Especially if you have 2 or more guns! But NOT if you don't have any ammo! Generally I save my guns for horde nights! Unless I'm able to get a chemical station, then priorities change.

Notes for Forge, Workbench and Chem station in that order:

There are POI's that have these, Traitors can have all of them working but generally may only have 1 or two working. "Gas Stations" can have forges, workbenches and chem stations and some sky scrapers have chem stations too. There are certain "houses" that can have forges. Why do I focus on these? Building and the ability to make your own tools is a great plus. Having to look/loot for the items to make any of these can be a hindrance to your progression and can eat up a lot of time. With the group it usually isn't a problem. Don't forget Time is your greatest enemy! In the first couple of days I'll look for these POI's and note them on my map. If by the 2nd or 3rd day I don't find one then it's off to building mode to where I'll have to build them myself, but in the meantime I'll be preparing for that eventuality.

OH! Let me digress a bit... Yes! Looting is a great and fun part of this game, always is and always will be! But if you take into account the fact that "Time Is Your Greatest Enemy" then 'tactically' you shouldn't loot till you're 'setup.' But there are exceptions. What I mean by setup is that you have a 'home base' a building base and a 7D2D horde night base. Why not have all of these at one 'base?' Screamers!!! Once the heat level in any area reaches 100, they'll be coming to check that area out! How many times have you been interrupted and have to go take care of that screamer?!? Also if they see you before you see them they'll scream - bringing more mobs to the scene!!! For each time they scream you're ability to 'survive' declines. At my 'home base' I'll try to have at least a POI workbench close and/or hopefully one or two workbenches. Why multiple? Because the way I play is "The Conehead way"... Mass Quantities!!! With the group a lot has already been delegated... So it's not problem there. But with SP having two or more workbenches at my base lets me build a lot of items quickly and at 'night' in an attempt to optimize 'time usage.' As for its location I'll generally build my own close to the forge. If inside a Traitors base - I'll generally build my home base close, if in a POI - I'll either take that POI over or build it very near it so I can hopefully have access to it 24/7! As for a building base - that can be a POI forge, or multiple forges and hopefully at least one Chem station! The Forge has top priority since I can make things and obtain items to repair things. Chem station is 3rd since its only needed for a few things but gunpowder being top priority. By "building base" I mean its just a location - especially with POI forges and/or chem stations. As for our group we'll generally have a lot of things looted and locations picked out for our base, its about 50/50 if we'll build our own base, or take over a POI - if a POI then we know that we may have spawner's in the base. In SP - better quality tools gets you more resources. So if you focus on 'tools' as I do then with at least a forge, you can make better and better items. Skill point progression is along this, and very, very little on weapons. I start weapon skill point distribution at around level 40/after 2nd horde night. Since I'm a Conehead - I'll go chop wood for most if not an entire day... Or hit nodes all day... Doing nodes will give you resources for forging and resources for gun powder!! Also - a bunch of skill points to spend. Now - I could spend all of those points on 'weapons' and such but I generally spend it for mining and stamina. Since I'm a Conehead I'll wait till I have a tonne of skill points too! lol Oh - I talked about exceptions and those include the need to find items to build say like a chem station, or what ever. Another exception is when I finally have "Mass Quantities" of many things or if I decide its time to loot or when I see something that is irresistible such as a military camp only then will I start looting. Another exception is if I'm ready for the next horde night and I have some free time, then its time to loot! When I go looting I almost always make sure to have increased Quality Joe!!!

So generally I'll grab a tonne of resources before I go out looting.

Now then - with the basics out of the way hopefully there's a town or city close; generally the Traitor and/or POI's are! Finding a wrench of +60 durability is a great plus too! So with a group everything is easier, but in SP it isn't unless you have all of your bases, or most of them. In SP i won't loot unless I have to find something to build like a workbench, forge, or chem station or some item I desperately need. You've noted that you have a group - if you're not distributing things such as a 'forge person' - a weapons person, tool person etc... Then that is part of what's hindering you're progression. Our looters don't level up much or fast at all because they're not doing anything to level up at all... And that's another hindrance to progression. Fastest way to level up is mining. Yes - we have a couple of people that do not like to mine, nor ever want to... Some would rather loot all the time but they've quickly found out that they have to do something in order to level up.

 
Wew, that's a lot of info.

To summarize some key points I gleaned and also apply:

  • Time is key; the longer the game goes / the longer you go without dying, the harder the zeds you spawn are going to be
  • Looting houses early on is not profitable; you can level looting opening random unopened containers on streets and "open" POIs like camp sites. Once you have QJ houses are more valuable.
  • If you are putting points into tools (which is wise) you should be making better tools and hitting nodes. Lots of nodes. Trees and boulders are everywhere. This may be a problem in MP, but generally if you travel you can find unexploited areas. Tons of XP just from gathering raw materials. Green/Blue quality iron is pretty solid if you don't plan to mine 24/7.
  • Try to avoid spending lots of points in weapons; pick something you're going to specialize in and dump (free) points there. If you want all the best crafting options, you may want to delay weapon perks until level 60+.
  • Finally, when deciding to loot houses; be stealthy, take headshots with bows when you can, and don't be afraid to run out and draw them into the open. Fighting inside a house can be deadly.

 
With leveling up you get skill points! With the looters - they've started putting points into quality Joe and scavenging; albeit just opening containers will increase scavenging - but it is 'boosted' so to speak when points are put into it. Oh yes - as others pointed out you can take out the mobs you're talking about if you've put skill points into weapons such as bludgeoning or the knife thing... That'll help some, but looking those over may help too. I generally don't put points into any weapons at all till much later; like level 80 or so and its like the 4th or 5th horde night. Personally I don't put points into any firearms till later because if you get a head shot with a halfway decent weapon that zed is down and out... For me - a "chance to dismember" zeds aren't really worth anything... Because just a 'chance' to dismember a zed may look cool and such but ultimately it isn't worth it since those points can be more effectively used some where else. Doing more damage every rank is a great one as opposed to the chance to dismember...

Generally when looting I'll try to use a Bow/Crossbow and mele weapon when necessary... Any type of mele weapon but Sneaking is a key as someone's mentioned!!! As is said by "GI Joe" 'knowing is half the battle.' Sneaking into POI's and sneaking around will let you see 'whats inside' without aggro-ing them most of the time. Since day one I have always sneaked around, especially in POI's - especially if I don't know whats in it. So - knowing what's inside, knowing where the exits are and a few other things gives me the advantage in any 'fight.' Just walking around without sneaking is confusion. Sure you can get by 'much of the time.' Knowing what POI's have 'good loot containers' is another 'knowing is half of the battle.' For me - going into a POI once or twice gives me a good indication as to what I can expect as far as what drops and what zeds to expect when and if I go in 'again.' This allows me to 'bypass' some POI's... For example - If I need clothes - there are tonnes of POI's that can drop clothes - apartment buildings, homes, etc will have dressers with clothes. Some have very few chances and some will 'randomly' drop some clothes... So if I need clothes I'm going into the POI's that have the most loot containers with cloths and bypassing the POI's that have a 'small chance to have any.' In one of the Mods I/we play - there's a building with Radiated Cops... I know the entire POI is a good looting site, I know the cops (2 or 3 of them) are there. I'll sneak to find them, then hopefully one shot their heads off when they're 'sleeping.' I also know that if I have to run in a battle - and run outside of the POI I was just in - there is a great chance (definite probability?) that the sleepers WILL respawn... So I try to avoid that at all costs unless I've only just gotten into it, or am virtually done and the last few containers aren't worth it... "Knowing is half the battle." Throwing down a few barriers can also help - may give you enough time to finish off the zed(s) before forcing you to retreat.

Selling to Traitors is a GREAT BOON to players!

The "tent POI's" (including military tents) can get you a tonne of cotton by destroying it! I mean from top to bottom, you don't get any cotton if you make the tent collapse! I never increase my barter since I always grab a tonne of stuff to sell to the traitor(s). I will however increase the "Secret Stash" when I can!!! The more traitor bases you know of - the more stuff you can sell!!! You can sell 3 stacks of any stackable item to any single traitor!!! After that they won't buy anymore! For about a stack of probably 700 cloth you can get about 200 Dukes! You can also make items (certain blocks) that you can sell to the traitors for Dukes too! When wrenching cars - if you've got say like 100: springs, electronic parts, electrical parts, headlights and pipes and such - that's almost more than what you'd immediately use... Sell a stack of 50 - or half o your supply keeping a bit in reserve... See how much you get!!! Or for like a stack of 6000 "black iron" you can get a few thousand Dukes!!! Generally you can get a decent - about 400 quality wrench from a traitor for 1200 to 1500 Dukes! A similar quality gun for 12000 to 15000 Dukes!!! So gathering stuff or wrenching cars can get you resources but you can also sell much of that for Dukes! You'll also get XP and eventually skill points for doing that, well - except for 'picking cotton.' But you have to keep in mind that they may or may not have any gun or tool such as a wrench... But they may and either way you should keep an eye on the day their stock of goods will change. With the way I play I don't buy the tools from the traitor - unless it's early in the game... Say like before the first horde night - I see a +200 quality pick... I'm gonna try to buy it if I'm 100 or below! I have it in my head that a pick of about 200 quality will be about 300 to 500 Dukes!!!

Anyway - its taking me a long time to write this (mostly because today I afk most of the day lol)... Now people are talking about guns. I love and prefer the hunting rifle or Sniper Rifle mostly because I want the bonus of a 'sneaking-head-shot!' Way sweet! But use what ever you want or get! You can also sell guns to the traitor for about 1200 Dukes and up! No matter the quality (unless all are below 50) I try to keep at least 2 of any gun and sell the rest!

So basically once you get to know 'the lay of the land' and such, and you take a 'rule of the game' as: "Time is your greatest enemy" that equates to more than '... half of the battle.'

Almost every game is of the premise: "Get stuff to build stuff to get more stuff to build greater stuff and so on and so on..." Once you go out of that loop - and in this game 'looting' all or most of the time - then you won't progress 'as fast as you should' and that's exactly what 'part of my group' has and is experiencing now. "Like it or not" mining is a part of this game!!! So if you're ignoring it, then you're probably exactly where you 'should be.'

You haven't noted what day it is either - that would help a bit too.

Well - I've taken too much time to write all this to 'delete it' so it's going as is... Fare thee Well!

 
glad youre excited and passionate about the game but you literally wrote an article about how to play the entire game and it has nothing to do with the topic of this post....not sure how to deal with this...

 
glad youre excited and passionate about the game but you literally wrote an article about how to play the entire game and it has nothing to do with the topic of this post....not sure how to deal with this...
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Yeah, I made a similar post here and it was more or less ignored. Same deal -- multiplayer server with not that good of items and finding so many irradiated zombies at low level on difficulty 5. Literally couldn't beat their regen with the weapons I had available it seemed.

 
glad youre excited and passionate about the game but you literally wrote an article about how to play the entire game and it has nothing to do with the topic of this post....not sure how to deal with this...
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Well if you're able to take all of that in then you would see that it has everything to do with the post. Albeit on a tangent/parallel. Basically if you don't take "Time is your greatest enemy" then that is part of the problem. There is no requested information such as Day and a few things others have requested. You're level 42 is all we got to go on.

In my playstyle as noted - in a 'good game' its day 10 and I'm level 40 or so. "Normally" for me its about day 14 or 15; I've got virtually everything noted, besides pumping out tools at 200 to 300, weapons usually lag behind at 100 to 200; always at least 1 forge by day 4 or 5, if I go multiple forges (which is rare) I'll have at least 2 on day 7; I'll have at least 1k to 2k nitrate and coal (last game I had 7K nitrate and no coal); about 200 9mm rounds, 100 to 150 7.62 rounds, etc. But the key to that is the length of day! Horde nights on 120 are to say the least hard! I would guess my gamestage (since I rarely look at it) would be on a normal game about 300 and up. I play on the 2nd hardest difficulty, 8 or 12 zeds per player. I mostly play mods now because vanilla is 'too easy' and the current mod is War of the Walkers in "SP" and Valmod Overhaul with our group. In my videos - one of them is Valmod Overhaul and its day 49 and I'm level 125, in another one which is War of the Walkers - Day 9 level 63, then another War of the Walkers and its day 20 Level 117. In the last one I'm uploading its day 7 and I'm level 39, but look at the bar... Level 350 tools, and 250 hunting knife and 300 spiked club. Again - part of my playstyle includes gathering tonnes of materials, items, etc to sell to the traitor. That gives me a jump on mining and weapons! Generally I can have +15000 Dukes on hand at anytime after the 2nd horde night! When I find multiple traitors then that's when the Dukes really start rolling in. So - I was presuming that you're a 'looter' and that would definitely explain a bunch of things such as having very low level tools and virtually no ammo. Looting is fun and definitely a part of the game, but generally you won't get much ammo...

I am WaltsWorker aka Cadamier

https://www.youtube.com/user/WaltsWorker

 
There is no requested information such as Day and a few things others have requested. You're level 42 is all we got to go on.
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It's a multiplayer server. It could be day 100 or day 800. And there's no way to track the total amount of time you've played short of literally never dying and then going off "longest life."

I never had these problems in single player.

 
Yeah, I made a similar post here and it was more or less ignored. Same deal -- multiplayer server with not that good of items and finding so many irradiated zombies at low level on difficulty 5. Literally couldn't beat their regen with the weapons I had available it seemed.
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With what you gave - you didn't have enough Sustained DPS to kill it. Irradiated zombies regenerate their health. In the previous 'calculation' you need more than a Sustained 27 DPS (80 every 3 seconds) to kill it... Actually - my previous calculation was based off of Valmod - don't have the data for Vanilla. But I seem to remember that anything Irradiated does regenerate health!!!

So... If you can't overcome that health regeneration effect that they have - which is either 40 or 80 health every 3 seconds you'll never ever be able to kill them.

But if you've looked at my videos - you'll see the level I'm at as well as the items I have and how much ammo I have, virtually everything I have! How do I do it?

By that massive post starting "here" and 'here'. And it all starts with taking "Time is your greatest enemy" as the premise of the game.

 
There is a 'Day' indicator on your screen. Top center under your compass.
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Yes, I'm aware. I don't understand why you care or how it matters -- the point is that the day is 100+. It was Day 273 in one game. It'll be Day 732 in a future game.

If you haven't had these issues with SP then its more than likely that the day is high!
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So your argument is that any new player joining a server at a late day is just screwed because they'll encounter irradiated cops and spider zombies? That doesn't seem like good design.

How do I do it?....And it all starts with taking "Time is your greatest enemy" as the premise of the game.
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Please don't patronize me. Several things you said seem to indicate you're struggling with things I'm not. For example...

Generally I can get level 40 by day 15 when playing the longest days.
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I'll have a base of Cobblestone with a forge or three by Day 2-3. With a mine shaft. I'll pick out my home base area on Day 1 or 2, near a trader.

Etc.

Hell, I was the Tortoise in the "Tortoise and the Hare" challenge where I argued (and proved) that doing nothing but mining/building for the first week or two was the best way to get end-game quality items the fastest.

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We're talking about a very specific issue here: finding irradiated cops and spiders on multiplayer servers at fairly low levels -- levels that you could hit in less than 2-3 weeks.

 
Yes, I'm aware. I don't understand why you care or how it matters -- the point is that the day is 100+. It was Day 273 in one game. It'll be Day 732 in a future game.


So your argument is that any new player joining a server at a late day is just screwed because they'll encounter irradiated cops and spider zombies? That doesn't seem like good design.

Please don't patronize me. Several things you said seem to indicate you're struggling with things I'm not. For example...

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Well - I have it in my head that you don't jump onto a server with a high day count. I haven't had time to go look for the actual posts - So I posted another post specifically asking for that.

I don't care if it's a good design or not, this game is Alpha and hasn't been optimized! MP isn't a "Primary" goal for TFP...

So how do you account for the irradiated zeds? Anyone else care to chime in on this subject? <VBEG>

I am not trying to patronize you or anything... Just trying to help, I'm trying to talk and help xXBadDreamXx

Good for you! Excellent even... It wasn't directed for you but it was directed to xXBadDreamXx

Yes, sometimes I do struggle with things sometimes not. First hand proof if you need it is here.

Well then if that's true - then I don't see the need nor logic for you posting that previous forum post.

<CP> "We're talking about a very specific issue here: finding irradiated cops and spiders on multiplayer servers at fairly low levels -- levels that you could hit in less than 2-3 weeks."

Well - again - "I am trying to talk with xXBadDreamXx" about his issue and you feel and/or have some need to attack me.

I don't care about you or what day or level you can reach - I was only trying to indicate to xXBadDreamXx <--- The OP as to 'where I can get' using the methods I described so as to 'show' him whats possible since 'xXBadDreamXx' deems to have extremely low level items and definitely not enough ammo.

Now to get back to your 'last line' and I'll Quote:

"We're talking about a very specific issue here: finding irradiated cops and spiders on multiplayer servers at fairly low levels -- levels that you could hit in less than 2-3 weeks."

The first part - I don't see you talking about it - but only making one statement and then attacking me... YOU only have 2 posts till now. I don't see you offering and questions, advice, etc... So "You" are not taking about a very specific issue here... But you definitely are attacking me.

So Balkoth? How do you account for them popping up on xXBadDreamXx ?!? Try to be productive and actually help! And please stop attacking me!

 
Well - I have it in my head that you don't jump onto a server with a high day count.
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Wasn't that the whole point of moving to gamestage? That the game would scale based on how long someone had been playing rather than the day of the server?

Well - again - "I am trying to talk with xXBadDreamXx" about his issue and you feel and/or have some need to attack me.
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Perhaps I've misinterpreted your statements. You said

"But if you've looked at my videos - you'll see the level I'm at as well as the items I have and how much ammo I have, virtually everything I have! How do I do it?

By that massive post starting "here" and 'here'. And it all starts with taking "Time is your greatest enemy" as the premise of the game."

Which to me reads as

"How am I so awesome? By doing this awesome advice and having this awesome mindset that you don't have. Git gud, scrub."

The first part - I don't see you talking about it
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The post I linked discussed the issue.

xXBadDreamXx is free to correct me if I've misunderstood his position.

However, I will point out xXBadDreamXx said this to you:

"glad youre excited and passionate about the game but you literally wrote an article about how to play the entire game and it has nothing to do with the topic of this post....not sure how to deal with this... "

So I'm not the only person thinking your attitude seems to be "You're obviously bad at the game and that's the problem."

 
glad youre excited and passionate about the game but you literally wrote an article about how to play the entire game and it has nothing to do with the topic of this post....not sure how to deal with this...
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Yep, so I moved the whole sideways discussion into it's own thread so yours isn't tainted with it any longer.

 
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