PC Question about POI's

[K-MauMau]

I am not sure if this has been asked before or not, so I'll ask anyway.

I understand that the quality of loot from zombies will scale with the difficulty (Skull rating) of the POI. I would like to make a horde base in a high-level POI location, but would like a little clarification on how the POI difficulty is flagged. Is  it the building or structure itself flagged with the increased difficulty, with a radius bubble of sorts around it? Or is it the chunk of terrain the POI sits on, that is flagged?

I am basically wondering if I need to modify a POI to suit my needs in order to keep the difficulty scale, or if I could simply tear down the entire structure, and build what I want on the land itself, while still maintaining the POI's difficulty scale. 

Hope I worded this correctly.

 

[zztong]

My understanding is the primary factor for loot is the Game Stage which is driven by your level and perhaps the levels of others that you are grouped with. To that, the POI's tier rating and the biome's rating influence the Game Stage.

The POI's boundary is however many blocks it was built on in the Prefab Editor. Typically that is 25x25, 42x42, 60x60, or 100x100 but in the wilderness or on custom Tiles you will find some other sizes. You might call that the "chunk of terrain", though I think the term "chunk" means something to maps so I don't want to say POIs conform to map chunks, whatever they might be.

I am basically wondering if I need to modify a POI to suit my needs in order to keep the difficulty scale, or if I could simply tear down the entire structure, and build what I want on the land itself, while still maintaining the POI's difficulty scale.

I don't understand your goal.

If you modify the POI, then the blocks have changed. But as far as the game is concerned its still a POI. The game can assign quests to it and if somebody starts one then all your changes will be gone. You can prevent that with a land claim block or a bedroll that overlays some/all of the POI.

If you hang out in the POI and you get respawns, the game stage will still be figured in and the biome modifier, but I'm not sure the POI modifier matters unless it is a quest. I guess I never thought about it to inquire and I'm curious what answers you get.

If you're modifying the POI in the Prefab Editor to make a new POI, then you get to decide the Tier. It's just a setting in the POI's XML file and the Prefab Editor knows how to change it.

 

[theFlu]

or if I could simply tear down the entire structure, and build what I want on the land itself, while still maintaining the POI's difficulty scale. 

You can, whatever effect a POI has has no bearing on the blocks there, just the location. As long as your top right UI shows a POI name with the skull rating, you're good. You can also check your loot stage on the character sheet to confirm.

And your loot stage it calculated from where you stand, if you're within the POI area and loot a bag outside of it, you'll get the bonus, vice versa not.

 

[K-MauMau]

Excellent! That will make things much simpler. Rip out a POI, throw a Horde Base on that spot of land, and pop a few land claim blocks to prevent it from reverting if my wife ever attempts questing. Thank you very much!

 

[Javabean867]

Excellent! That will make things much simpler. Rip out a POI, throw a Horde Base on that spot of land, and pop a few land claim blocks to prevent it from reverting if my wife ever attempts questing. Thank you very much!

As long as there is a land claim block there, the quest can't be started.  So you are safe with 1.

 

[warmer]

I have always assumed if the location of the horde base is occupied by a bed roll or land claim, any buff to game stage from the POI becomes null and void, because a zombie would need to spawn within the POI's radius in order to receive the difficulty buff.

I suppose it may ultimately come down to when is the loot bag generated. If the loot bag is generated at the time of death via a random roll to see if a zombie drops one, then the POI difficulty may influence the loot stage, but if the zombie is "spawned" into the game with the loot bag already attached to the entity to appear when killed, then the loot bag would have the spawned locations game stage influencing the contents.

So I guessy question is...

When is the loot bag created? A random roll at time of death, or does a zombie have it on them at all times and drops it on death?

 

[theFlu]

When is the loot bag created?

The bag is created at the time of death, but the loot within is created upon looting. Like all containers.

I tested this a while back, but I see no reason to think it's changed: I killed demos at a two biome border, the demo and the bag ever existing only on the lower loot stage side; then I looted the bag standing on the higher biome side, and received loot that would've been impossible on the other side of the border (a sniper iirc, and the minimum loot level for that was higher than what I had in the lower biome)

I had artificially inflated the loot modifiers for the biomes, but that shouldn't have effected anything other than the effect size, and thus the ease of testing the "rules".

 

[warmer]

I tested this a while back, but I see no reason to think it's changed: I killed demos at a two biome border, the demo and the bag ever existing only on the lower loot stage side; then I looted the bag standing on the higher biome side, and received loot that would've been impossible on the other side of the border (a sniper iirc, and the minimum loot level for that was higher than what I had in the lower biome)

What I am hearing is the loot stage is dictated by the location of the player and not the object you are looting? That is interesting. So I suppose a POI difficulty should influence it so long as your bed roll/land claim don't zero that out.

Has this been tested? Does a loot bag/land claim remove the POI bonus? I haven't tested it, but I assume it would remove it.

 

[theFlu]

Has this been tested? Does a loot bag/land claim remove the POI bonus? I haven't tested it, but I assume it would remove it.

Why would it? I (rarely) drop a claim / bedroll at the start of POI and have never noticed a difference; and I can't really see why my "save game at the entrance" tactic should nullify my T6 loot cache?

 

[warmer]

Why would it? I (rarely) drop a claim / bedroll at the start of POI and have never noticed a difference; and I can't really see why my "save game at the entrance" tactic should nullify my T6 loot cache?

My assumption that it removes the POI bonus, is due to the zombie not being able to be spawned in the POI affected danger offset. If the zed that is spawned outside of the POI in at a lower gamestage level, then their potential drop should be offset by the spawned gamestage. If they spawn within the affected area of the POI, then they would be in a higher gamestage pool.

If that isn't the case, then a huge exploit would be finding a tier 5 POI in the forest ASAP and your loot tables will be way higher than they would be otherwise.

 

[theFlu]

If that isn't the case, then a huge exploit would be finding a tier 5 POI in the forest ASAP and your loot tables will be way higher than they would be otherwise.

Umm.. that wouldn't do anything as you don't have to claim a POI to use it as a horde base? Plenty of them have very safe outdoor areas to setup on if you don't want to clear it, and if you have the ability to clear it, you could just re-clear weekly (or whatever your zed spawn interval is).

 

[K-MauMau]

Well I do remember watching a YT vid a couple weeks ago, about a person using the tip of his gun to literally roll a zombie loot bag into a POI's radius, to increase its loot value, or something like that. Was the whole reason for my initial post. 

Either way though, my wife and I have been having a blast tearing down 'Higashi Pharmaceuticals' for our new base location. Tier 5 POI, in wasteland terrain. Should make for some nice loot during Blood Moons. Lol

 

[theFlu]

my wife and I have been having a blast tearing down 'Higashi Pharmaceuticals' for our new base location.

Nice, that's a fun project even without the loot stage bonus Especially now that the game doesn't completely die while at it anymore. Flattening the whole thing, or are you keeping some parts to use for your base? (Almost easier to flatten, just dig the dirt below, not the concrete )

 

[warmer]

Umm.. that wouldn't do anything as you don't have to claim a POI to use it as a horde base? Plenty of them have very safe outdoor areas to setup on if you don't want to clear it, and if you have the ability to clear it, you could just re-clear weekly (or whatever your zed spawn interval is).

I wasn't implying you need to "claim" it, just set it up as a horde base for the eventual event.

 

[theFlu]

I wasn't implying you need to "claim" it,

If you weren't, then how would changing the mechanics of claiming it change the outcome? (Being wrong in not thinking things completely through is absolutely fine, it's the only way to learn; please don't do the politician and start dancing around a wrong just to look like you weren't )

 

[warmer]

If you weren't, then how would changing the mechanics of claiming it change the outcome? (Being wrong in not thinking things completely through is absolutely fine, it's the only way to learn; please don't do the politician and start dancing around a wrong just to look like you weren't )

I was saying if you just occupy one on horde night that ups your loot drops without changing the horde difficulty. They won't spawn in the POI radius anyway. Horde night is spawned past draw distance, so that makes land claim/bed rolls irrelevant.

 

[theFlu]

Horde night is spawned past draw distance.

I wish.. see JaWoodle's tests, they're spawning basically in the next chunk, about 50 blocks away. Not easy to spot necessarily, in the haze and panic of the blood moon, but well within draw distance.

And I think the difficulty is determined by "the player/group the horde is spawned for", so an area changes your character stats, that affects your group stats and whatever gets spawned around you is determined by that. That I haven't tested, beyond looking at solo game stage in various biomes and that having an obvious effect.

 

[Riamus]

Although I have not tested this, I am pretty sure the horde spawns would be based on the players' current game stage.  That means that if you are standing in a tier 5 POI, which increases your game stage, the horde will be based on the higher game stage.  The same thing if your horde base is on the border of a biome.  If you are standing in the forest, the horde will be based on a lower game stage even if they are spawning in an adjacent wasteland. 

Keep in mind that the horde is based on your game stage.  Not your game stage plus POI tier modifier or biome modifier because those modifiers modify your game stage already.  So it doesn't matter where they spawn.  It matters where you are.  The same thing for loot since it also is affected by game stage.

Of course, the horde game stage is based on an average of every player in the area, so if and are in different biomes or not in the same POI, that would of course impact things.  But it would still be based on where each player is standing as it is based on their game stage. 

I don't know if the horde game stage can vary in the middle of horde night if you start running to other POI or biomes in the middle, or if it is set at the start.

 

[K-MauMau]

Nice, that's a fun project even without the loot stage bonus Especially now that the game doesn't completely die while at it anymore. Flattening the whole thing, or are you keeping some parts to use for your base? (Almost easier to flatten, just dig the dirt below, not the concrete )

We are flattening it. Will make still have a nice concrete slab to work on afterwards, that's perfectly on ground level. Plus, the brick ring going around the property a few blocks away from the building itself seems to show the POI radius perfectly. So we should have all the room we need to make a working Horde/main base out there in the wasteland. The forest biome was becoming boring. First time we've played the newer version of the game, as we are console players. So this has been an amazing treat for us.

 

[Vaeliorin]

I wish.. see JaWoodle's tests, they're spawning basically in the next chunk, about 50 blocks away. Not easy to spot necessarily, in the haze and panic of the blood moon, but well within draw distance.

Back in A16, I used to make a game of trying to get an arrow to hit them in the head just as they finished standing up once the horde slowed down.  But I don't think they spawn in laying down any more, so can't do that now.