PC Pack Mule Shouldn't Be a Perk, But...

BobTheBard

Refugee
...it also shouldn't be removed entirely. Instead, I think Pack Mule and inventory management in general would be best handled as an item-based solution. Right now it feels a bit weird that I need to invest points to carry more stuff despite already having the strength. Am I learning how to carry stuff more efficiently? Why would I just not go the obvious route and pick up one of the many, many bags I find lying around to carry more stuff in? Thus my proposal here.

Give each survivor a new equipment slot for a Backpack and make inventory capacity and encumbrance dependent on that. You'd start with the same amount you have now. A basic plant-fiber bag could add, say, 4 slots (equivalent to Pack Mule 1). A simple leather bag could add 9 (Pack Mule 2) and could be made with leather and plant fiber as soon as you get a source of leather. An Old Duffel Bag or Old Backpack still in serviceable condition could be found as loot or bought and would give 15 slots (Pack Mule 3). Both the Leather Bag and the Old Backpack could be upgraded to a Sturdy Leather Backpack with a workbench and the right materials, giving 21 slots (Pack Mule 4). And the king of them all would be the Hiker's Backpack, craftable from scrap polymer and forged iron with the right crafting perk and a workbench or found as rare loot, giving 27 slots (Pack Mule 5).

But wait, I hear many people already saying, wouldn't this mean you lose your carrying capacity on death? Well, yes, it would. Why do I think that's not a problem? The first is easy enough, a setting could be added that says you don't drop your backpack item (just its contents) when you die. But secondly, you generally don't take that much with you when you go back to get your stuff anyway. And now not going back for it has the added element of 'Crap, I lost my shiny new hiker pack!' This might not be a huge deal for a mid-level crafter who can make a new one (though it would take time and resources) but would be a much bigger issue for the scavenger who got a little too greedy and died in a dangerous place.

I think this idea would be of benefit to a lot of different groups. Crafters will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Scavengers will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Hardcore players will enjoy the thrill of potentially losing their inventory space if they overreach too much, or the balance of making sure you can afford to lose not just your stuff but the thing you're carrying it all with. And realists will like the idea of someone not being able to haul 40 shovels around while swinging a sledgehammer without some kind of carrying device.

What does everyone think?

 
I have voiced a lot of criticism. But I think this system is fine as it is.

It needs to be better balanced (higher starting inventory, less requirements for max perk) but the system itself is fine.

Reworking this again would take away from other, way WAY more important things.

Not saying your system is bad. It might even be better in the long run. But the time invested in the rework isnt worth the end result.

 
its easy to mod it a way you like it

Instead of explaining it here a quote

Backpack mod60 Slots

Adapted version of https://7daystodie.com/forums/member.php?154805-stedman420 mod

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?94502-A17-Simple-UI-Modlets

Vanilla you start with 18 Slots you cant encumber

Stedman420 set the value to 33

I set the value to 25 (Vanilla+ allready give skillpoints at start and reduce the abilitygate at pack mule)

No Perk

F05D78E92D141F93BAAFA545238A2DCD3C50E80E


With all perks (looks like some mods would be a nice idea)

7B0E77922BB6245A9EE1AD7785AB528A8F36F654
If you want the mods more powerfull reduce the Slots you cant fill without being encumbered and raise the amount of slots the mods will unlock

I currently wait for Stedmans ok to use his mod as base for mine. But his mod is good written and easy to adapt how you want it, and as long as you dont offer a download you are free to edit it how ever you want

 
Last edited by a moderator:
...it also shouldn't be removed entirely. Instead, I think Pack Mule and inventory management in general would be best handled as an item-based solution. Right now it feels a bit weird that I need to invest points to carry more stuff despite already having the strength. Am I learning how to carry stuff more efficiently? Why would I just not go the obvious route and pick up one of the many, many bags I find lying around to carry more stuff in? Thus my proposal here.
Give each survivor a new equipment slot for a Backpack and make inventory capacity and encumbrance dependent on that. You'd start with the same amount you have now. A basic plant-fiber bag could add, say, 4 slots (equivalent to Pack Mule 1). A simple leather bag could add 9 (Pack Mule 2) and could be made with leather and plant fiber as soon as you get a source of leather. An Old Duffel Bag or Old Backpack still in serviceable condition could be found as loot or bought and would give 15 slots (Pack Mule 3). Both the Leather Bag and the Old Backpack could be upgraded to a Sturdy Leather Backpack with a workbench and the right materials, giving 21 slots (Pack Mule 4). And the king of them all would be the Hiker's Backpack, craftable from scrap polymer and forged iron with the right crafting perk and a workbench or found as rare loot, giving 27 slots (Pack Mule 5).

But wait, I hear many people already saying, wouldn't this mean you lose your carrying capacity on death? Well, yes, it would. Why do I think that's not a problem? The first is easy enough, a setting could be added that says you don't drop your backpack item (just its contents) when you die. But secondly, you generally don't take that much with you when you go back to get your stuff anyway. And now not going back for it has the added element of 'Crap, I lost my shiny new hiker pack!' This might not be a huge deal for a mid-level crafter who can make a new one (though it would take time and resources) but would be a much bigger issue for the scavenger who got a little too greedy and died in a dangerous place.

I think this idea would be of benefit to a lot of different groups. Crafters will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Scavengers will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Hardcore players will enjoy the thrill of potentially losing their inventory space if they overreach too much, or the balance of making sure you can afford to lose not just your stuff but the thing you're carrying it all with. And realists will like the idea of someone not being able to haul 40 shovels around while swinging a sledgehammer without some kind of carrying device.

What does everyone think?
This just brings things back to the debate between RNG and Buying with Perks. Like the discussion about skill books. Someone might never find a bigger backpack while someone else will find 10 backpacks.

I can work with either system so if you get them to change on this more power to ya.

 
This just brings things back to the debate between RNG and Buying with Perks. Like the discussion about skill books. Someone might never find a bigger backpack while someone else will find 10 backpacks.
I can work with either system so if you get them to change on this more power to ya.
That's why you'd make sure every tier of backpack would be craftable, eventually, from relatively common materials. This means the RNG element will eventually go away if you choose to invest perks in making it go away.

 
That's why you'd make sure every tier of backpack would be craftable, eventually, from relatively common materials. This means the RNG element will eventually go away if you choose to invest perks in making it go away.
I hear you. I would expect though that they would lock the larger bags behind perks in the INT tree though and we'd be back to square one lol.

 
Or insted of punishing us for using inventory space, just remove the encunbrance entirely and just give us the 45 slot inventory. I mean the base inventory is smaller than a16 in terms of unencumbered slots.

 
Or insted of punishing us for using inventory space, just remove the encunbrance entirely and just give us the 45 slot inventory. I mean the base inventory is smaller than a16 in terms of unencumbered slots.
with a bit balance the new system works. But its simply to strong perked/gated

 
Perhaps it would be nice if the slots opened up automatically as you put points into strength, without having to spend extra points on pack mule.

 
You can easily get through at least the first week spending nothing on pack mule and not more than a minute or so total doing inventory triage.

 
You can easily get through at least the first week spending nothing on pack mule and not more than a minute or so total doing inventory triage.
Not if you play as i do.

There are many things affect that

* Loot abundance

* How often you visit a trader

* Distance to trader

* Distance to next pois you loot the first week

* Do you have a bike

* Do you build big

* ...

 
Encumbrance wouldn't be an issue if drop tables were altered so the pockets mods would drop a bit more commonly, its ultra rare to see single pocket and I have yet to see 2 or 3 pockets mod after 50 hours, given my hoarding all for himself friend I play with might have found one and hidden it away, but still, its a bit too uncommon for my taste, even having barter 5/5 and checking all traders every reset.

 
...it also shouldn't be removed entirely. Instead, I think Pack Mule and inventory management in general would be best handled as an item-based solution. Right now it feels a bit weird that I need to invest points to carry more stuff despite already having the strength. Am I learning how to carry stuff more efficiently? Why would I just not go the obvious route and pick up one of the many, many bags I find lying around to carry more stuff in? Thus my proposal here.
Give each survivor a new equipment slot for a Backpack and make inventory capacity and encumbrance dependent on that. You'd start with the same amount you have now. A basic plant-fiber bag could add, say, 4 slots (equivalent to Pack Mule 1). A simple leather bag could add 9 (Pack Mule 2) and could be made with leather and plant fiber as soon as you get a source of leather. An Old Duffel Bag or Old Backpack still in serviceable condition could be found as loot or bought and would give 15 slots (Pack Mule 3). Both the Leather Bag and the Old Backpack could be upgraded to a Sturdy Leather Backpack with a workbench and the right materials, giving 21 slots (Pack Mule 4). And the king of them all would be the Hiker's Backpack, craftable from scrap polymer and forged iron with the right crafting perk and a workbench or found as rare loot, giving 27 slots (Pack Mule 5).

But wait, I hear many people already saying, wouldn't this mean you lose your carrying capacity on death? Well, yes, it would. Why do I think that's not a problem? The first is easy enough, a setting could be added that says you don't drop your backpack item (just its contents) when you die. But secondly, you generally don't take that much with you when you go back to get your stuff anyway. And now not going back for it has the added element of 'Crap, I lost my shiny new hiker pack!' This might not be a huge deal for a mid-level crafter who can make a new one (though it would take time and resources) but would be a much bigger issue for the scavenger who got a little too greedy and died in a dangerous place.

I think this idea would be of benefit to a lot of different groups. Crafters will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Scavengers will be happy they don't need to invest heavily in Strength to have a decent carrying capacity anymore. Hardcore players will enjoy the thrill of potentially losing their inventory space if they overreach too much, or the balance of making sure you can afford to lose not just your stuff but the thing you're carrying it all with. And realists will like the idea of someone not being able to haul 40 shovels around while swinging a sledgehammer without some kind of carrying device.

What does everyone think?
https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?101208-Inventory-reworked&highlight=inventory+reworked

Check that out, I'm with you here, I'd love a little more rng in the game and not a system that holds your hand all the way to endgame, make people suffer, make people yearn for that elusive يtem they need.

Obviously what I proposed in that thread lacks proper balance, it's just an idea for a more active progression, with the current system the only thing you yearn is xp to buy some random perk and you're done.

 
or they could change it completely again.

What I mean is, scrap the current version of Pack mule, let us hold all the slots. Instead, make pack mule maybe increase stack sizes? I always have to mod the max amount of items in a stack whenever an update hits. It get tiresome after a while. Pack mule sounds, to me atleast, just from the name you should be able to hold more in each slot. Maybe I am weird that way.

 
Or insted of punishing us for using inventory space, just remove the encunbrance entirely and just give us the 45 slot inventory. I mean the base inventory is smaller than a16 in terms of unencumbered slots.
Yeah. And let us start with a minibike and a purple shotgun too. I mean, who likes difficulty anyway..

 
As long as you can put a 4x4, motorcycle, and gyrocopter all on your belt at the same time; seems like a moot point :)

 
or they could change it completely again.
What I mean is, scrap the current version of Pack mule, let us hold all the slots. Instead, make pack mule maybe increase stack sizes? I always have to mod the max amount of items in a stack whenever an update hits. It get tiresome after a while. Pack mule sounds, to me atleast, just from the name you should be able to hold more in each slot. Maybe I am weird that way.
Inventory management is a very important part of survival games, suggestion like yours or just "endless" expanding of backpack take that away and turn it into plain minecraft with sharper textures.

 
Inventory management is a very important part of survival games, suggestion like yours or just "endless" expanding of backpack take that away and turn it into plain minecraft with sharper textures.
Depends on how you like to play the game really. I’m a collector and a builder. Having a small backpack just makes things annoying.

That said I always play with mods so the defaults can be whatever MM and team decide is best. I’ll play it my way anyway :)

 
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