PC Let's DISCUSS old zombies vs new zombies!

Frostblunt

New member
I'm wondering if others than me think the same... I used to love this games, I had a server with a small community where I spent hundreds of hours. The fun thing about this game was how immersive it was to play it with other peoples. It made me feel like I was in an episode of walking dead. My character was one of the few that had only 1 death in his lifetime because I knew how to be cautious on a pvp server and against the zombie I made sure to never be surrounded or taken by surprise.

Now the immersion is completely gone. Zombies spawn out of thin air everywhere around you. You want to loot this shop... you clear it of zombies... next thing you know another one has appeared in that room you just cleared. they literally pop out of thin air. Also yeah the zombie in the closet... scary the first time I'll admit but wtf was a zombie doing there? ok maybe this house has an explanation like the owner suicided in the closet. But every house in the world has 1 or 2 persons trapped in the closet wtf..

Also zombie should die with 1 shot to the head... end of discussion. I dont care about kids that complain that it's not hard enough. Making a zombie head like it's made of metal plate is just a disgusting way to create a difficulty for these kids. Remove the hud, add some shaking while you aim, have the zombie be faster and harder to aim at higher difficutly... but please NOT a raycast detection where the zombie conciously try to dodge your aiming line... it's just a disgustingly bad design.

Watch any zombie movie or series, they are not intelligent, they should walk straigth into any trap you put on their path. They shouldn't be able to dig trough wall or even more ridiculous trough the ground. When you have a large outside base surrounded by wall, they shouldn't magicly appear all over the place once you killed them and theres no way for them to get back in. Seriously let's say you secured one of the prison, unless someone blow the wall with an RPG, you should be safe from zombie while inside and be able to do wtv you want without needing to keep a shotgun in your hand.

The danger is when they have numbers and corner you where you can't flee. Watch some episode of walking dead, the characters learned how to deal with the zombies menaces and they are not much of a threat and that's how it should be. The real danger come from other humans if you play on a pvp server. Human NPC enemies would be fun too but I won't ask too much.

Zombie should be something that add a stress factor and something to be cautious about, not some magic wrath of god that rain on you all day long while you try to do other stuff. Yeah don't get me wrong I don't say this because it's too difficult this way, I know when I gain skills and build everything it becomes easy and I have to be patient to get there... problem is the game isn't fun enough for me to get there.

The zombie spawning everywhere out of thin air just turn me off completely from playing. The spawning system is ridiculous and need to be changed. I hope the devs will consider making some change in this direction because I would really like to play this game again and make another servers to play with friends.

What I suggest is simple...

-Do not ever spawn them inside a building when it has been cleared unless all players has left and the building isn't secured.

If you want to spawn zombies around player do it outside the building and far enough so that it's at least believable that they heard you and are coming from far away. Put an option in game to play it with the current spawn setting for those who like it as it is right now (how could that be).

- Make the zombie stupid enough again to fall into traps. They should just walk in a straight to you when they are aware of your position.

- Don't make them dig trough the ground or wall (only make them try to destroy doors)

-They should die from 1 shot to the head.

- For more difficulty increase their number (without spawning them like retards), remove aiming hud or all hud. Add some shake when aiming, make them harder to aim at by increasing movements speed, remove retarded behaviour of moving away from aim when someone aim at them from a km away (even if it's 1m away it's just disgusting to see them conciously dodging your aim).

 
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they are still working on the AI, and spawn, and paths and all those things.

Yes sometimes they are way too smart and this is not good in my opinion, but still they are better than the A16 zombies.

don't forget we cried for a year about the zombies running in a circle. That was annoying and breaking the immersion more than smart zombies.

About the head shot, yes i would like a real apocalypse world with thousands of zombies and everyone easy to kill, as it should be in real life, but probably this is not an easy thing to do. Also, you start your game naked and with a stupid wooden bow, obviously in real life in same condition you would miss 38 times and hit not hard enough to kill them. After some practice (leveling and adding perks in game) you will be good enough to oneshot everyone. When you reach some level you will oneshot almost every normal zombie in the game. I'm ok with this to be honest.

 
Now the immersion is completely gone. Zombies spawn out of thin air everywhere around you. You want to loot this shop... you clear it of zombies... next thing you know another one has appeared in that room you just cleared. they literally pop out of thin air. Also yeah the zombie in the closet... scary the first time I'll admit but wtf was a zombie doing there? ok maybe this house has an explanation like the owner suicided in the closet. But every house in the world has 1 or 2 persons trapped in the closet wtf..
They do not exactly spawn out of thin air (at least not very obviously), it does look that way sometimes though because there a lot of zombies that feel hidden "on purpose". I agree in general - they seem too artificial. Their number should be more random and hidden zombies should be much more rare.

Also zombie should die with 1 shot to the head... end of discussion. I dont care about kids that complain that it's not hard enough. Making a zombie head like it's made of metal plate is just a disgusting way to create a difficulty for these kids. Remove the hud, add some shaking while you aim, have the zombie be faster and harder to aim at higher difficutly... but please NOT a raycast detection where the zombie conciously try to dodge your aiming line... it's just a disgustingly bad design.
I don't know about one specifically, but I hate bullet sponging as well. It's too flat/unimaginative of a way to create difficulty. There are multiple other (albeit harder) ways to do that. Also agree about hit detection - it does need a makeover.

Watch any zombie movie or series, they are not intelligent, they should walk straigth into any trap you put on their path. They shouldn't be able to dig trough wall or even more ridiculous trough the ground. When you have a large outside base surrounded by wall, they shouldn't magicly appear all over the place once you killed them and theres no way for them to get back in. Seriously let's say you secured one of the prison, unless someone blow the wall with an RPG, you should be safe from zombie while inside and be able to do wtv you want without needing to keep a shotgun in your hand.
Atm they don't spawn for a while after you have cleared a POI. You *can* secure POIs in the short-term and throw a bedroll to prevent spawns in the long-term. And they have to be able to break walls - because most of the zombie threat movie mechanisms are impossible to replicate in a video game (some are though) and zombies would hardly be a threat in the end.

The danger is when they have numbers and corner you where you can't flee. Watch some episode of walking dead, the characters learned how to deal with the zombies menaces and they are not much of a threat and that's how it should be. The real danger come from other humans if you play on a pvp server. Human NPC enemies would be fun too but I won't ask too much....Zombie should be something that add a stress factor and something to be cautious about, not some magic wrath of god that rain on you all day long while you try to do other stuff.
I do agree that SOME things could become more cinematic, completely replicating the experience is impossible - for starters, those fellows on the walking dead are perma-dying like flies because they tripped on a rock and a zombie bit them in a suspenseful cinematic sequence. Also not everyone wants to play on a PvP server.

Yeah don't get me wrong I don't say this because it's too difficult this way, I know when I gain skills and build everything it becomes easy and I have to be patient to get there... problem is the game isn't fun enough for me to get there.
This is being discussed in quite a few other threads.

 
you start your game naked and with a stupid wooden bow, obviously in real life in same condition you would miss 38 times and hit not hard enough to kill them.
With the bow ok I could understand, yes you would miss your shot all the time and the arrow may not hit hard enough. In that case just make it harder to aim and make it so that you have to crank your shot and it shakes the more you hold it. if you don't crank it enough the shot is weak and the arrow bounce off the the zombie. But remove the damn metal plate from the head is all I'm saying. It's okay to put some difficulty for beginner but it has to be done correctly.

yes i would like a real apocalypse world with thousands of zombies and everyone easy to kill, as it should be in real life, but probably this is not an easy thing to do.
I'm a professional unity game programmer with less than 2 years of experience and I'm 100 % sure I could implement all these features easily in less than 2 month. I don't know wtf they are doing when they supposedly hire senior game devs with more than 5 years of experiences and comes out with a spawning system like the current one it just makes me facepalm.

 
They do not exactly spawn out of thin air (at least not very obviously), it does look that way sometimes though because there a lot of zombies that feel hidden "on purpose". I agree in general - they seem too artificial. Their number should be more random and hidden zombies should be much more rare.
I'm 100% sure they do spawn out of thin air and were not hidden. A closed room with nothing to hide in, 1 second after I get out I turn around and the same zombie (sleeper) spawn in the same spot I just killed it.

 
I agree that there are improvements that need to be made but I am having more fun against these zombies than against any previous zombie in the game with the exception being that the speed differential between player and zombies is too great in this latest version. We shouldn’t be able to so completely outrun them.

I do not want a return to what we had but some gentle tweaks and randomization of behavior would be great. And speed up their max sprint speed.

 
With the bow ok I could understand, yes you would miss your shot all the time and the arrow may not hit hard enough. In that case just make it harder to aim and make it so that you have to crank your shot and it shakes the more you hold it. if you don't crank it enough the shot is weak and the arrow bounce off the the zombie. But remove the damn metal plate from the head is all I'm saying. It's okay to put some difficulty for beginner but it has to be done correctly.
Yes, guns should have more power and we should be able to oneshot zombie etc.

But in the real life, are you really sure you would hit a zombie between his eyes when he's running after you?

We all know perks, weapons and all the combat system need a lot of work. Personally i am just waiting to see the final (or atleast, a real stable) result of the game, then if i don't like i'll mod my client.

I'm a professional unity game programmer with less than 2 years of experience and I'm 100 % sure I could implement all these features easily in less than 2 month. I don't know wtf they are doing when they supposedly hire senior game devs with more than 5 years of experiences and comes out with a spawning system like the current one it just makes me facepalm.
You should create your game since looks like you are a better developer than them.

The game is already superlaggy and frames are horrible with 16, 32 zombies etc. Pretty sure there is no computer good enough to handle 10, 100 times bigger horde.

But who knows, maybe some day the game engine will be good enough to handle more zombie than now... don't forget we are on a alpha version of the game and a lot of optimization need to be done.

 
Personally I have never had an issue with respawns. I have never seen a zombie spawn out of thin air and I have never encountered zombies spawning in POIs that I have just cleared. Not once. In thousands of hours. So forgive me if I tend to believe that this is player error. It didn't respawn, it fell in from some random ceiling gap or cupboard that you hadn't noticed.

 
I agree that there are improvements that need to be made but I am having more fun against these zombies than against any previous zombie in the game with the exception being that the speed differential between player and zombies is too great in this latest version. We shouldn’t be able to so completely outrun them.
I do not want a return to what we had but some gentle tweaks and randomization of behavior would be great. And speed up their max sprint speed.
Same.

It's like the zombies have gradually slowed down since around Alpha 8. The zombie speed settings help with this, but when you increase it, they start to look silly, not sure how to describe it.. maybe like an old Charles Chaplin silent film... or a Benny Hill chase scene?

What also does not help with this are the zombie jumping animations. It's like when they just need a little hop, they jump as high as they can and pause after landing. I feel like they are waiting for applause or something.

 
Yeah, personally I prefer large numbers of dumb zombies that die easily or at least with headshots. Also prefer that limbs blow off pretty easily as it's part of the fun of the zombie appeal.

Not to say I don't like the new AI, I just think it should be restricted to leader zombies that draw other zombies to path with them or something.

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Personally I have never had an issue with respawns. I have never seen a zombie spawn out of thin air and I have never encountered zombies spawning in POIs that I have just cleared. Not once. In thousands of hours. So forgive me if I tend to believe that this is player error. It didn't respawn, it fell in from some random ceiling gap or cupboard that you hadn't noticed.
I have some twitch clips that I could show when I get home to show you that it happens. Example, I was on the loot roof of the building site, I was opening boxes. When I got half way through and looked back to where I came from there was a radiated that was sleeping where I had been 30 seconds ago. And that platform is only what, like 5x8? Just popped right in behind me. And that is just one example.

 
Yeah, personally I prefer large numbers of dumb zombies that die easily or at least with headshots. Also prefer that limbs blow off pretty easily as it's part of the fun of the zombie appeal.
Agreed. Something so pleasurable about smacking a zombie on the arm, and the whole arm comes off in a splash of gore.

 
Using the god pistol to shoot off BOTH arms AND legs, then watch the zombie roll down the hill.

To further the fun and games, said zombies Monty Python quote: "I'm not dead yet!"

Me: "Yer arms and legs are off, what are you gonna do, BLEED ON ME?"

Z: "CHOMP"

Me: *piff* "Now yer heads off. Yer dead"

Yes, the would play dead, and when you walked up, would bite. (and sometimes break your leg for good measure)

I think I made a clip of that, zed rolling down the hill into a tree. (oh hai George, watch out for that....) :D

 
Zombies cannot spawn in thin air, they came from somewhere, you just need to be observant and pay attention. If they do, you need to report this bug, it is not in the design for them to spawn out of thin air.

Limbs fly off like crazy if you get the right perks. Yes you are a noob, buy the perks to be a master.

The good news is we're working on a way to play back a save game "recording" so we can reproduce bugs a lot easier. A seed will be identical when re-rolled too in the future. This should allow for 100% reproduction of bugs, benchmarking etc.

 
Zombies cannot spawn in thin air, they came from somewhere, you just need to be observant and pay attention. If they do, you need to report this bug, it is not in the design for them to spawn out of thin air.Limbs fly off like crazy if you get the right perks. Yes you are a noob, buy the perks to be a master.

The good news is we're working on a way to play back a save game "recording" so we can reproduce bugs a lot easier. A seed will be identical when re-rolled too in the future. This should allow for 100% reproduction of bugs, benchmarking etc.
I will try to send a few clips over to the bug reporting thread of sleeper zombies just popping in. We have seen plenty of example. I thought it was already a known bug so I didn't bother.

 
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from my understanding you want more zombies as the danger instead of zombies that take multiple shots to kill. ( like the movies ). but can the game really handle that? i mean yeah it would be great to have thousands of zombies at your concrete walls trying to get in but im pretty sure peoples FPS would drop to nothing. and dont get me wrong i hate bullet sponges to, nothing worse than being level 5 and having to shoot some green zombie 80 times in the face to kill it for a little extra xp.

as far as the AI goes, nothing was more laughable than watching zombies run circles while i stood up on a wooden frame shooting them. the old ai was dog poop and made the game far to easy.

 
The zombie spawning breaks immersion, I don't mind it taking more then 1 headshot to kill the Z's (I kill normal sleepers with one hit usually once I upgrade to some iron arrowheads.

What ticks me off, that I want to mod out, and can't is the Z's going berserk and attacking support structures. The only "fixes" I've seen so far are indestructible blocks and I don't want that.

 
Zombies DO port in from nowhere and it happens plenty. Behind you in rooms just cleared, out in the forest, on rooftops, even underwater! I have seen this many times and so have plenty of others, yet we are ALL wrong go figure!

Agreed using bullet sponges is a cheap trick and is obviously being used because they cannot add numbers needed in unity for whatever reason. Too many zs indoors virtually none outdoors and immersion breaking glowing/spitting zombies only there to combat lack of numbers/difficulty. Love the game but wondering if numbers will ever be addressed as a priority.

 
Zombies cannot spawn in thin air, they came from somewhere, you just need to be observant and pay attention. If they do, you need to report this bug, it is not in the design for them to spawn out of thin air.Limbs fly off like crazy if you get the right perks. Yes you are a noob, buy the perks to be a master.

The good news is we're working on a way to play back a save game "recording" so we can reproduce bugs a lot easier. A seed will be identical when re-rolled too in the future. This should allow for 100% reproduction of bugs, benchmarking etc.
Hello Madmole

in a17 I have not seen any dismemberment of arms or legs, these are totally disabled, only decapitations. If this is a mistake then I let you know right away, only decapitations work.

Mutilations of arms and legs do not work with the skills to the maximum.

checked now. Check it

a greeting

 
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