PC LBD talk is RIGHT HERE
- Thread starter Roland
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Grue
New member
While that might be interesting, for my intents and purposes, I would settle for being able to turn off their ability to dig.
Thank you. I agree, they are trying way to hard to make it look like every other FPS/battle royal game that is the flavor of the week for the local middle school crowd.
It has been dumbed down to the point where it is just another FPS shooter were you grind XP, it has lost much of the flavor that originally attracted a lot of players.
Can we get rid of those retarded magazines? Maybe shift back toward learn by doing a little more to make it less about the XP grind?
I agree, it is not about hate by any stretch.
If anything the people you see bitching on the forum here all want the same thing. We want the game to be as good as possible, which is why we get up in arms when it takes a (in some opinions) a wrong turn.
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RipClaw
Well-known member
The difference is that the LBD grind is much more tied to what you do.I think madmole already said the magazines were getting removed/repurposed. Learn by Doing was already rejected by the devs in this thread multiple times. Weird to want to make it less about the XP grind but more about the LBD grind, which, in effect, is a slower grind
Grue
New member
There is a difference between difficulty and challenging.
Zombies used to be erratic like.... well... zombies.
A mindless horde that used large numbers to overwhelm defenses.
You build fortifications and then defend them from the mindless horde = FUN!
Now they are too smart for their own good.
There is no reason to build walls because they would simply shred any wall you put in front of them, so now we build mazes instead of walls, or just kite them.
Instead of an epic siege to test your base design.... we have Monkeys vs Bloons.
While that maybe entertaining in the short run, it gets old. Fast.
Combine that with the new XP grind system and the game has lost much of its appeal.
Horde night is just a conga line of XP being delivered to my front door like pizza
No fun, no challenge, just a mindless shooting gallery.
Seriously, I never really noticed or cared about what "level" my character was in A16 and I LOVED it that way.
My progress was based on actually playing the game... exploring... finding the books I needed... finding the resources I needed...
trying to get something built before the end of the week.
It was not perfect, but it was a highly enjoyable sandbox experience.
Learn by doing was FAR superior, it was interesting, it made SENSE.
If I wanted to get better and mining to buy the next perk, I had to go do some mining.
Now I can max out my mining skills without ever digging a hole.
If I wanted to get better with a shotgun, I actually had to USE a shotgun.
Now I can max out my shotgun skills without even owning a shotgun.
It was far more entertaining/immersive/fun in A16.4, I could play for hundreds of hours on the same map, exploring and building... there was always something to do, some defenses that needed improvement, books to find, a better engine/batter/whatever for the minibike, a real reason to explore.
Between the AI changes (minimal base building) and the perk/progression (grind XP)
changes, what is the point of the game now?
Since A17 I find myself constantly starting new maps instead of spending hundreds of hours on building bases with my friends because the game play is stale, generic, predictable, i.e., boring as ♥♥♥♥.
As much as I like all the new vehicles and content... I would rather just have my little minibike and a fun sandboxy game to play, than a linear, boring, wannabe RPG that is stuck so hard to the rails that every single play through is completely identical. A17 has ZERO replay value.
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RestInPieces
New member
Nah, not really before they introduced that zombie kill exp. At least it was terribly inefficient. And I insist on my belief that the main advantage of A16 LBD was not having a global exp system.
zicky
New member
I personally am glad that spam crafting to learn by doing is a thing of the past. To me having to make a zillion stone axes or grass shirts to level up a skill was stupid and boring. All night long I would sit and make junk so I could level up a skill. Now, I go out at night and explore or gather resources so that during the day I can raid POI's.
As for gun parts, how many of you have gun barrels or parts in your house. I would bet not many. I have two rifles, three pistols, and two shotguns. It never made sense to find gun parts and not complete weapons. The only place I would expect to find gun parts would be in a gun shop. Now should I be able to scrap said items for parts? Absolutely.
I build my base the same way since Alpha 13 or 14 except that I had to replace the wood log traps with the spikes. Sure, the zombies can break down your base, but if you don't like the speed that they destroy your base then change the setting for them to cause less block damage or mod down their damage. You have always been able to cheese the AI. It's really no worse now that it was before. I, for one, do not choose to cheese the AI. If you don't think you have enough challenge on a blood moon, increase the number of zombies. I use twelve instead of eight to give me a better challenge.
As for replay-ability, I love starting the game. I usually get bored with a single play through by day thirty because right now there is a lack of end game play, but I know they will place that in the game before gold. But, even if not, I like the first twenty days in the game building my base and exploring.
No, I don't like everything about the game in 17.2. The stuff I don't like, I either mod it out or mod it in. Overall, I think TFP are doing a great job. I'm looking forward to 17.3 to try out the 'new' RWG.
As for gun parts, how many of you have gun barrels or parts in your house. I would bet not many. I have two rifles, three pistols, and two shotguns. It never made sense to find gun parts and not complete weapons. The only place I would expect to find gun parts would be in a gun shop. Now should I be able to scrap said items for parts? Absolutely.
I build my base the same way since Alpha 13 or 14 except that I had to replace the wood log traps with the spikes. Sure, the zombies can break down your base, but if you don't like the speed that they destroy your base then change the setting for them to cause less block damage or mod down their damage. You have always been able to cheese the AI. It's really no worse now that it was before. I, for one, do not choose to cheese the AI. If you don't think you have enough challenge on a blood moon, increase the number of zombies. I use twelve instead of eight to give me a better challenge.
As for replay-ability, I love starting the game. I usually get bored with a single play through by day thirty because right now there is a lack of end game play, but I know they will place that in the game before gold. But, even if not, I like the first twenty days in the game building my base and exploring.
No, I don't like everything about the game in 17.2. The stuff I don't like, I either mod it out or mod it in. Overall, I think TFP are doing a great job. I'm looking forward to 17.3 to try out the 'new' RWG.
RestInPieces
New member
Stating the obvious but spam crafting != LBD
If memory serves, they had removed spam crafting before LBD anyway, after A15.
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Viktoriusiii
New member
no idea why ppl still equate those two things.
while I personally had no problem with it since it was player choice, I understand that it wasn'T for everyone.
But they removed it in a16 and it was great.
And I even liked that you could buy some stuff with xp.
It was a good balance.
"You want to effectively dig your mote but don't want to spend hours leveling it? Put your xp into it that you could spend on perks that are way more efficient. Your choice!"
Now its: "Kill 50 zombies to get that skill! Kill another 70 to get the next. Kill another 120 to finally get that car that you... oh you aren't lvl 50 yet. Kill another 400 zombies to get that then."
Ezed
New member
Pretty sure MM mentioned level gates are going away. So if that's correct, at least when you buy the perk you can then craft the item which'll be much better.
Anyway, LBD makes sense for somethings. 'Fitness' for example. Best system in any game ever was in GTA San Andreas where running and hitting the gym made your toon fit while eating burgers and driving everywhere turned you into a marshmallow. Wish that kind of system would appear in more games.
RestInPieces
New member
Zombie kill XP imo was one of the worst decisions ever been taken for the game. It has created all sorts of "negative synergies".
As for spam crafting, I am a firm believer that it could work. If they increased its cost - made it have recipe-specific diminishing benefits etc, everyone would be happy and none would be "inclined to use it" and ruin their experience.
Diminishing benefits may have helped in the long run, but the start of the game would still have been the same. You have a number of recipes that add to ability X, you craft each of them until the benefit gets too low.
If I remember correctly Roland always gave the reason that you could get XP parallel to other XP generating activities that really put a nail in the coffin of craft XP. That reason would also still be valid even with diminishing returns.
Now craft grind is a mechanism that works perfectly well in MMOs all over the world and especially in the asia grinders. For the right players it will be a godsend. For some others something they can largely ignore. I just don't agree with "everyone will be happy". THAT never happens.
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RestInPieces
New member
True, when saying everyone would be happy I mostly mean that those who do want to use it and enjoy it will be happy, those who are inclined to use it but don't enjoy it won't be inclined anymore and those who want to ignore it will just ignore it without feeling gimped.
And yes, diminishing benefits alone won't be enough. But a certain combination would definitely do the trick. For example increasing the cost of "spam crafting" by making the yield percentage of scrapped materials depend on the level of skill (especially for early game). Or also adding a time-dependent diminishing return with a random range so that it will become impossible for players to track it. Plus making these diminishing returns steep enough, so that the whole process would not be worth being micromanaged while doing other activities.
The whole point would be de-incetivizing players from spam crafting the new recipes at each "threshold" and making it more worth using the recipes only when they actually need the item, while also leaving the possibility of some "more realistic" spam crafting for min-maxers. In my eyes it would be worth salvaging that system, because crafters in general would have their own non-annoying immersive exclusive source of exp. Anyway not claiming any of these would fix it to perfection, but I think it's definitely not impossible to fix. The solutions one can find are the only limit.
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Did you quote the wrong post? I did not say anything about bugs at all.
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Meh, more payers means more people scaving. The problem is not that those resources are shared but rather if you are being economical with those resources or not. Go around blasting everything, you are going to have a tape and bullet problem. Use stone arrows and clubs, bones will never be an issue.
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But we are not looking for what you are NOT going to say but rather what you actually said
Good news. I still think Roland's idea on XP is the way to go - zeds should not be a resource.
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And awesome it was. I would not have expected visuals like that to work in this game.
And finally:
LBD is D. E. A. D.
End of story. It's not coming back. Why are we still reading LBDgate posts....
KhaineGB
Well-known member
Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.
I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.
But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.
JaxTeller718
New member
I could not give you more of a standing ovation on this. There was no need for them to remove the coding to begin with. Keep it as an option for modders, With things being so mod friendly now why would you kill a tool we could have used to enhance the gameplay.
And Khaine is 100 percent right. Literally the first thing people are excited to have back when they play our mods are the Action Skills. People want to shoot at a wall to level their pistol go ahead. YOU'RE the idiot wasting in game time. But 16 had it perfect. You could go kill zombies to level your weapon of choice OR you could spend a point or three and not worry about it. Why that was removed when you guys all but took care of spam crafting is beyond me. Spam crafting was no longer even part of the equation.