Jars - still haven't addressed player feedback

[King of Here and There]

Stop trying to balance jars and instead balance water if you want the world to be immersive!!

Make jars and cans reusable. These half measures they are using pleases no one. If they want water to be harder to get AND be immersive consider having the water from lakes and rivers be polluted instead of murky...there are chunks of undead guts in it after all. Polluted water can only be purified in the chem station so its locked later in the game. Murky water can be found in things like fountains/rain collectors and can be purified in a cooking pot like we have today. This way water is harder to get, and players can attribute the difficulty to the post-apocalyptic setting and not some dumb gamified jar eating mechanic.

Smells being back is great. Players smelling for eating food is dumb. If you want to balance food, make non-persevered food rot if not canned/jarred/smoked, etc. This also gives players another use for the empty jars. Bring this game back to it's survival roots for the love of god.

 

[ALEXZANDER]

Stop trying to balance jars and instead balance water if you want the world to be immersive!!

Make jars and cans reusable. These half measures they are using pleases no one. If they want water to be harder to get AND be immersive consider having the water from lakes and rivers be polluted instead of murky...there are chunks of undead guts in it after all. Polluted water can only be purified in the chem station so its locked later in the game. Murky water can be found in things like fountains/rain collectors and can be purified in a cooking pot like we have today. This way water is harder to get, and players can attribute the difficulty to the post-apocalyptic setting and not some dumb gamified jar eating mechanic.

Smells being back is great. Players smelling for eating food is dumb. If you want to balance food, make non-persevered food rot if not canned/jarred/smoked, etc. This also gives players another use for the empty jars. Bring this game back to it's survival roots for the love of god.

+

 

[for4gerz]

Stop trying to balance jars and instead balance water if you want the world to be immersive!!

Make jars and cans reusable. These half measures they are using pleases no one. If they want water to be harder to get AND be immersive consider having the water from lakes and rivers be polluted instead of murky...there are chunks of undead guts in it after all. Polluted water can only be purified in the chem station so its locked later in the game. Murky water can be found in things like fountains/rain collectors and can be purified in a cooking pot like we have today. This way water is harder to get, and players can attribute the difficulty to the post-apocalyptic setting and not some dumb gamified jar eating mechanic.

Smells being back is great. Players smelling for eating food is dumb. If you want to balance food, make non-persevered food rot if not canned/jarred/smoked, etc. This also gives players another use for the empty jars. Bring this game back to it's survival roots for the love of god.

+

 

[Kyoji]

Stop trying to balance jars and instead balance water if you want the world to be immersive!!

Make jars and cans reusable. These half measures they are using pleases no one.

I am very happy with the changes. They don't please chronic complainers.

If they want water to be harder to get AND be immersive consider having the water from lakes and rivers be polluted instead of murky...there are chunks of undead guts in it after all. Polluted water can only be purified in the chem station so its locked later in the game. Murky water can be found in things like fountains/rain collectors and can be purified in a cooking pot like we have today. This way water is harder to get, and players can attribute the difficulty to the post-apocalyptic setting and not some dumb gamified jar eating mechanic.

Not a bad idea. Perhaps something to look at going forward later.

Smells being back is great. Players smelling for eating food is dumb.

Will have to see how it pans out. I love the smell system but also don't want to get swarmed by zombies while eating some bacon and eggs. Maybe add the paper wrap for other foods as well?

If you want to balance food, make non-persevered food rot if not canned/jarred/smoked, etc. This also gives players another use for the empty jars. Bring this game back to it's survival roots for the love of god.

No. Please no. Literally one of the worst features in a survival game is food spoilage.

 

[ALEXZANDER]

No. Please no. Literally one of the worst features in a survival game is food spoilage.

No its not (except if made by careless devs)

 

[Kyoji]

No its not (except if made by careless devs)

I can appreciate the fact you enjoy it but I personally don't. I won't hate you for wanting it but I will argue against it.

 

[theFlu]

I can appreciate the fact you enjoy it but I personally don't. I won't hate you for wanting it but I will argue against it.

I won't be arguing for food spoilage; but what is it that bothers you with it?
I see it somewhat similar to the incoming jar system, where a system exists to make you need to artificially keep looting to survive. You like the idea of having to hunt for disappearing jars, but not the idea of having to hunt for disappearing food?

 

[Fritzl]

I won't be arguing for food spoilage; but what is it that bothers you with it?
I see it somewhat similar to the incoming jar system, where a system exists to make you need to artificially keep looting to survive. You like the idea of having to hunt for disappearing jars, but not the idea of having to hunt for disappearing food?

A jar disappears from use. Food spoiling does not give you anything except "disappearing" food. Apples and oranges.

 

[theFlu]

Food spoiling does not give you anything except "disappearing" food.

Depends a little on the system; some games turn rotten foods into fertilizer etc. Sure, it's a different thing, but both are mainly aimed at causing "daily scarcity". For me jars feels worse as that's completely illogical, while food spoiling would be rather natural, especially without preservation methods.

 

[madmole]

And I would ask you and all players to stop knee jerking over patch notes and play the game. If it sucks we'll fix it. Internally it's LOVED, feels balanced.

 

[Rotor]

Depends a little on the system; some games turn rotten foods into fertilizer etc. Sure, it's a different thing, but both are mainly aimed at causing "daily scarcity". For me jars feels worse as that's completely illogical, while food spoiling would be rather natural, especially without preservation methods.

Lets leave the Jars out of this one. Unless you want to replace them with something else. Lets not spoil the RoTJ.

 

[theFlu]

Lets leave the Jars out of this one.

My question to Kyoji was roughly: "Why do you feel jars disappearing is great, but food disappearing would be the worst thing ever?", because that's something I don't really understand.

If I leave the Jars out of that, well, let's try: "Why do you feel ... 4x4s disappearing is better than food disappearing?" .. ? I don't think it'd capture quite the same point?

 

[ALEXZANDER]

And I would ask you and all players to stop knee jerking over patch notes and play the game. If it sucks we'll fix it. Internally it's LOVED, feels balanced.

Have question, is there any chance to see some sort of "boar yard' similar like chicken coop in future?

 

[Kyoji]

I won't be arguing for food spoilage; but what is it that bothers you with it?

I enjoy being able to self sustain and enjoy having stockpiles of items, food included. For me making food difficult early on is good for a survival game but I don't enjoy it later.

For early game food shortage I would reduce canned foods found in tier 1-2 POIs pushing players into hunting for early game food which would also make the smell system more valuable.

I see it somewhat similar to the incoming jar system, where a system exists to make you need to artificially keep looting to survive. You like the idea of having to hunt for disappearing jars, but not the idea of having to hunt for disappearing food?

You don't have to keep looting. The dew collector still exists unless they change the mechanics behind it requiring jars.

The difference for me is that jars imbalance the game. It's why most everyone talking about it before the proposed change said they didn't want a one for one port of the old system and that they did not want easy water. If you keep jars then you get easy water. So you either have to develop a new system to make it work or just have jars consume on use. I don't think jars are important enough to warrant more changes to balance jars not disappearing.

Lastly I don't conflate food spoilage with jars because food spoilage would make food more difficult jars make water easier. I think early game survival is important which is why I think both food and water should be more scarce early on but not in the end game. Food spoilage effects both early and end game whereby I feel there are better alternatives for early game fixes. Jars not being consumed on use just makes both the early and late game easier and none of the suggestions I have seen interest me. I don't want jars to break as that messes up longer POIs and other alternatives give me more negatives on the scale than positives.

Not sure if I expressed my ideas well but that's the gist of why for me.

 

[theFlu]

Not sure if I expressed my ideas well but that's the gist of why for me.

Thanks, I kinda get how you're thinking; I think we just disagree on "how" the early on water gating should work. I wouldn't see much of an issue having 20 jars + cooking pot essentially solve thirst entirely, as long as getting to 20 jars wouldn't happen on D1. Whether it happens on D3 or D7, whatever. That would just mean having jars really scarce in loot for the first week. Vendors wouldn't need to carry any, you spawn with one, that alone would be "sufficient", the additional ones would be more "quality of life".

As for food spoilage effecting end game, fridges and freezers would be a great addition to an electrified end-game base; but it's not something I really care enough to advocate for. It'd give a reason to build, even if it would be actually superfluous as long as you keep doing whatever fed you from the start.

 

[Rotor]

My question to Kyoji was roughly: "Why do you feel jars disappearing is great, but food disappearing would be the worst thing ever?", because that's something I don't really understand.

If I leave the Jars out of that, well, let's try: "Why do you feel ... 4x4s disappearing is better than food disappearing?" .. ? I don't think it'd capture quite the same point?

Oh I get it, and it was more a joke post hence "RoTJ". However, with that said (written), finally got "my" Jars back, and they are pop into every argument with regards to something else. The new bleep on the radar everyone points to, ignoring the inbound Apophis. Also while I quoted ya, I meant it as a general overall comment, my bad on that one.

 

[theFlu]

Oh I get it, and it was more a joke post hence "RoTJ".

Yeah, I got it was a joke; hence I replied as such.. I don't assume you took me literally?
But it wasn't me who showed up to a thread titled "Jars" to say "Leave jars out of it" so I can't be sure ...

 

[Rotor]

Yeah, I got it was a joke; hence I replied as such.. I don't assume you took me literally?
But it wasn't me who showed up to a thread titled "Jars" to say "Leave jars out of it" so I can't be sure ...

Alright, chicken or egg? Once we answer that all secrets will be revealed.

New idea for end game. You come accross Zombie chicken "blood moon" modified, super fast impervious to weapons, only catching it and beheading it will give you the answer you seek.

 

[theFlu]

Alright, chicken or egg? Once we answer that all secrets will be revealed.

Egg. They're slightly more fatty and moar delicious on their own.
Also, the last genetic mutation from a non-chicken to a chicken happened during the development of the respective reproductive cells, or at the combination of those. The egg is the first viable observable being with the required mutations, while the mother non-chicken is.. something else.

I might be playing a different game... also, omelettes!

 

[madmole]

Have question, is there any chance to see some sort of "boar yard' similar like chicken coop in future?

I don't think players can pick up boars lol. To craft a chicken coop you have to capture a live chicken We'll see I guess.