I gave storms a chance but im glad they are being changed

[Adam the Waster]

Look i like the idea of storms that damage you but these storms are kinda ridiculous. Especially if you drive into a biome and then it goes from sunshine and rainbows to the apocalypses

I understand Radation storms and ember storms damaging you but the other storms? Not so much aside from hail. And the bad part is the storms look cool but you are forced to go inside..no other way to fight it just hide.

Thats great but once you say head to another biome to raid it and you basicly have to just wait. If there were ways to remove or lessen the damage of the storms then cool but there isn't currently. I also do like how it makes vehicles harder to use. It makes some sense aside from the ember storm, sand and Radation storm but I just pretend it's just raining or something.

I also love that zombies run during storms but there should be a setting to boost or turn it off for those who like/dislike it.

I'm hoping 3.0 will have some changes cuz storms are basicly hurry up and wait

 

[EvilPolygons]

There are a couple of recipes for storm damage armor accessories but they aren't actually craftable yet for whatever reason. I play with storms on, but agree that the damage level is a bit much. Storm damage should be deadly if someone is foolish enough to just stand around out in the open like a turkey... but I feel like right now storm damage is bad enough to dissuade players from even sprinting from cover to cover.

As for sandstorms and blizzards, of course they should be able to damage you. Those are two of the most dangerous weather events on Earth. Getting caught out in the open, unprepared, during a severe sandstorm or blizzard is almost guaranteed to either kill you or leave you crippled for life. Even if you survive exposure, sandstorms can cause permanent lung damage, and snowstorms can lead to loss of fingers and toes due to frostbite.

I'd image trhat trying to survive a zombie apocalypse without fingers or lungs would be somewhat difficult.

 

[Ralathar44]

I can't agree that storms are that bad. Earlier today I cleared and looted the Lumbermill while a storm was raging.

I made it to the little security building in front of the front gate right before the storm started. Then I ran out and aggro'd the zombies in the piled log maze and ran back and shot them while they tried to follow me back to that little safe building. Then I sprinted in my heavy armor through the log maze to the next building and killed the 2 zombies in there. Same story to get to the main building. Pull > kill > sprint.

It's like 12-13 seconds between damage ticks and its not like 2-3 of them will kill you. I don't think I even took a single instance of storm damage while clearing the lumber mill. You're not gonna travel long distances but you can absolutely go to the house across the street and start clearing it for example.

 

[avalonnn]

Look i like the idea of storms that damage you but these storms are kinda ridiculous. Especially if you drive into a biome and then it goes from sunshine and rainbows to the apocalypses

I understand Radation storms and ember storms damaging you but the other storms? Not so much aside from hail. And the bad part is the storms look cool but you are forced to go inside..no other way to fight it just hide.

Thats great but once you say head to another biome to raid it and you basicly have to just wait. If there were ways to remove or lessen the damage of the storms then cool but there isn't currently. I also do like how it makes vehicles harder to use. It makes some sense aside from the ember storm, sand and Radation storm but I just pretend it's just raining or something.

I also love that zombies run during storms but there should be a setting to boost or turn it off for those who like/dislike it.

I'm hoping 3.0 will have some changes cuz storms are basicly hurry up and wait

Game designers talk about giving the player choices. Sid Meier of Civilization said that he wanted to give the player interesting choices each turn. Legend of Total War distinguishes between mechanics that give the player options and those that do not. The storms appear without warning and the player can only run.

In contrast, when the Bandits arrive, I hope to have a base raiding mechanic that allows the player to decide when to activate the bandit challenge.

 

[Ralathar44]

Game designers talk about giving the player choices. Sid Meier of Civilization said that he wanted to give the player interesting choices each turn. Legend of Total War distinguishes between mechanics that give the player options and those that do not. The storms appear without warning and the player can only run.

In contrast, when the Bandits arrive, I hope to have a base raiding mechanic that allows the player to decide when to activate the bandit challenge.

We're all getting used to the new system. but its 13 damage every 13 seconds after like 70+ seconds of advanced warning. You have a ton of time to decide if you can make it home or where exactly you want to ride it out.

You actually have alot of choices. It's more than 60 seconds of full travel speed. My friend on a minibike made it almost from the forest biome to the mansion on top of the hill in the snow biome in Navezgane in that time. The only reason he died is that he stopped to bandage on the exact wrong stretch of the incline and his minibike didn't have the power to get going, and then he had to get off and kill a zombie, so he basically lost 15 seconds. Had he just powered through he would have arrived safely.

But along the way he passed several POIs and, failing that, he could have done the good ole minecraft pop up hut OR gone back to the forest biome. Or you could dig into the ground or a hill. You have options.

Un my example above I chose to keep doing active POIs with zombies in one of the most open large POIs (the Lumbermill) and was absolutely safe from the storm just by tackling it smartly. Now did I have a tense moment with aggro zombies around and a bear smashing on the building I was in while I couldn't go outside for long periods of time? Yes. But it was perfectly handable. The bear broke a block, I killed it while it was breaking more, and then I handled the zombies as they crouched through that block to go eat me lol. It created a memorable experience from the pucker factor lol.

 

[RipClaw]

You have options.

But there is one option you don't have. You can't endure the storm outside.

If a storm gave you a strong debuff instead of just draining your health, you could take the risk of staying outside, but you would need to adjust your strategy. For instance, if your attacks were slowed down and your stamina regeneration was reduced, you would need to avoid power attacks.

At the moment, zombies outside temporarily have feral senses during a storm and move faster. If you were outside, you would have to take that into account. But when you're in a POI, it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[meganoth]

But there is one option you don't have. You can't endure the storm outside.

If we argue like that, we could as well argue that zombies should not drain your health but give you only debuffs when they attack. Because if one is directly before you and noticed you there is one option you don't have, stand around and for example reorganize your inventory.

 

[meganoth]

Game designers talk about giving the player choices. Sid Meier of Civilization said that he wanted to give the player interesting choices each turn. Legend of Total War distinguishes between mechanics that give the player options and those that do not. The storms appear without warning and the player can only run.

In contrast, when the Bandits arrive, I hope to have a base raiding mechanic that allows the player to decide when to activate the bandit challenge.

As Ralathar said you normally have lots of choices. They all include that you need to be inside for most of the time, but you have A LOT OF insides to choose from, including ones you built yourself.

That said, I agree that further balancing may be necessary. Subjectively I feel the storms are a bit too frequent and/or last too long. Possibly the damage could also be turned down a bit. Psychologically any damage hurts anyway. But to give another example of when the options do run out: As a stealth light armor guy I had situations where I was clearing a quest POI and still had to stop going forward because I couldn't create a safe hiding place in the confined spaces inside and outside I would not have survived long enough.
The problem here may also be that any hole in the ceiling near you means you are outside. It actually is realistic and more immersive that you can't just hide out on the porch, but it means a severe disadvantage for light armor players who can't just stand their ground when a glowy comes out of hiding

 

[RipClaw]

If we argue like that, we could as well argue that zombies should not drain your health but give you only debuffs when they attack. Because if one is directly before you and noticed you there is one option you don't have, stand around and for example reorganize your inventory.

I can fight back against a zombie. Try punching a storm.

Why do you insist that the storms should cause damage to the player instead of saying, “We'll make it harder for the player to survive if they insist on staying outside”. In my opinion, it's a much more interesting game mechanic than just a boring “you're outside and take damage, you're inside and don't take damage.”

 

[bdubyah]

“We'll make it harder for the player to survive if they insist on staying outside”. In my opinion, it's a much more interesting game mechanic than just a boring “you're outside and take damage, you're inside and don't take damage.”

And I could argue that taking damage while in the storm does make it harder to survive. I see people suggesting movement speed debuffs, or slower attack speeds or stuff like that and all I see is it's all basically the same thing: You're at a disadvantage while outside. Does the how really matter that much?

Not that it's that big of a deal as they are changing it anyway, so not sure why people are still even arguing this.

 

[RipClaw]

And I could argue that taking damage while in the storm does make it harder to survive. I see people suggesting movement speed debuffs, or slower attack speeds or stuff like that and all I see is it's all basically the same thing: You're at a disadvantage while outside. Does the how really matter that much?

I would say those are two very different things. You can't fight the storm. You can't punch it or shoot it. Currently, you just take damage, and the only two things you can do are try to replenish your HP with medkits or bandages, or go inside.

On the other hand, if you have debuffs, you can adjust your strategy for fighting zombie. It's the same if you have a broken leg, for example, or are thirsty or hungry. Do you fight the same way when you're injured as when you're healthy? Probably not.

 

[Ralathar44]

But there is one option you don't have. You can't endure the storm outside.

If a storm gave you a strong debuff instead of just draining your health, you could take the risk of staying outside, but you would need to adjust your strategy. For instance, if your attacks were slowed down and your stamina regeneration was reduced, you would need to avoid power attacks.

At the moment, zombies outside temporarily have feral senses during a storm and move faster. If you were outside, you would have to take that into account. But when you're in a POI, it doesn't matter anyway.

I can fight back against a zombie. Try punching a storm.

Why do you insist that the storms should cause damage to the player instead of saying, “We'll make it harder for the player to survive if they insist on staying outside”. In my opinion, it's a much more interesting game mechanic than just a boring “you're outside and take damage, you're inside and don't take damage.”

I would say those are two very different things. You can't fight the storm. You can't punch it or shoot it. Currently, you just take damage, and the only two things you can do are try to replenish your HP with medkits or bandages, or go inside.

On the other hand, if you have debuffs, you can adjust your strategy for fighting zombie. It's the same if you have a broken leg, for example, or are thirsty or hungry. Do you fight the same way when you're injured as when you're healthy? Probably not.

That's 3 comments saying "do something" but without actually saying WHAT something. The feedback you'd prefer something other than damage is valuable, but unfortunately only of very limited value without more.

For instance you say "debuffs" Ok, lets look at debuffs:

- Move slower: When has a player EVER enjoyed moving slower. Especially if you're already weighed down with items and in heavy armor where moving any slower may as well be immobile. Plus you can just ignore this using a vehicle. And if vehicles move slower or are disabled then people are going to hate that too and its going to cause second order issues. For example our base is a mansion up a curvy road on top of a mountain. Mini bikes and bicycles already have to turbo just to make it up. Make them slower and they are incapable of going uphill.

- Attack slower: Easily ignored by using ranged weapons. Punished some weapons heavily while other weapons can more or less ignore even modest attack speed debuffs.

- Blinded/limited visibility: Basically just results in stay inside or take damage but with the added frustration of the player feeling lost. Also could potentially be ignored via minimap/compass guidance. Also could potentially impact performance.

- Max HP lowered: Prolly the most viable but if it goes away when you go indoors its not very impactful.

- Stamina/Stamina Regen: Try being infected at more than stage 1/2. Most people do not like this feeling at all. Many will gladly go intentionally die just to not put up with the Stamina regen debuff. And ofc this stacks with infection/food/water.

- Unpreventable loss of food and water like Dysentery: Incredibly punishing early game if heavy, completely ignorable mid to late game.



Still, to show good faith I'll do the best I can to cobble together something that is impactful but doesn't make anything too yucky. Something that addresses your concerns hopefully. But this does not mean it would be a good thing to implement as there may be ramifications or design realities I have not considered. Since any particular debuff would be too punishing instead the goal is to pair much lighter hp loss with a spread of very light debuffs that overall add up to being very unfavorable.


An attempt at a storm effect that is MORE debuff oriented. In this idea of storm effects Storm effects progress in stages like Infection does, worsening with more exposure and SLOWLY recovering while indoors or post storm, like taking meds to slowly cure infection. It's not a light switch that turns on and off. Storm stage progresses similar to infection while inside the storm with each damage proc starting or slightly adding to the stage progression and becoming shelted "applies a cure" slowly reducing storm stage. This curing effect gets canceled upon next storm damage proc much like infection. (hopefully allows them to re-use and repurpose infection code for a different system to reduce dev work).

Going out into a debuff storm should be stage based and have the following effects:

Stage 1: Up to 30 seconds of storm exposure.
- You take 1 damage every 10 seconds. This is far lower, but will still add up over time. Fortitude spec can "tank" through this better. Good. That's a feature of that build.
- You suffer an abrasion (-25 max hp, cured over time or by aloe/first aid bandage/kit) Abrasion reapplies at each stage increase.
- Increase Food and water use from exertion 5%. (Like a reverse Iron Gut.)
- Carry Capacity -1

Stage 2: 30 - 60 seconds of storm exposure.
- Damage per 10 seconds increased to 2.
- All attributes reduced by 1
- You become Fatigued (-20 max hp, cured over time or via vitamins). Fatigue reapplies at each stage increase.
- Food and water increase from exertion worsens to 10%.
- Carry Capacity -2

Stage 3: 60-120 seconds of storm exposure.
- Damage per 10 seconds increased to 3.
- All attributes reduced by 2
- You become Fatigued (-20 max hp, cured over time or via vitamins)
- You suffer a laceration (-25 hp, resistance to bleeding reduced 15%) Laceration reapplies at each stage increase.
- Food and water increase from exertion worsens to 15%.
- Carry Capacity -4.

Stage 4, Final Stage: 120+ seconds of storm exposure.
- Your vision blurs similar to the beer effect.
- Damage per 10 seconds remains 3.
- All forms of healing reduced by 50%
- All Attributed reduced by 3.
- You become Fatigued (-20 max hp, cured over time or via vitamins)
- You suffer a laceration (-25 hp, resistance to bleeding reduced 15%, cured over time or by sewing kit)
- Food and water increase from exertion worsens to 20%.
- Carry Capacity -6


Off the cuff after giving it some thought that's the best I have. Something that DOES inflict SOME damage, but a survivable amount of damage. Something where debuffs matter but doesn't overkill the debuffs on any "gameplay" area. (movement, attack speed, etc) Something that you can't simply shake off from stepping inside and something that actually kinda gives Fortitude a bit of an advantage that makes sense for its design. And something that becomes progressively more punishing and likely deadly even if its prolly not gonna kill you via its direct damage that often. That's the best I can do offhand though.

You've been critical of the current storm, so tell me, what do you think of this one?

 

[Adam the Waster]

I can't agree that storms are that bad. Earlier today I cleared and looted the Lumbermill while a storm was raging.

I made it to the little security building in front of the front gate right before the storm started. Then I ran out and aggro'd the zombies in the piled log maze and ran back and shot them while they tried to follow me back to that little safe building. Then I sprinted in my heavy armor through the log maze to the next building and killed the 2 zombies in there. Same story to get to the main building. Pull > kill > sprint.

It's like 12-13 seconds between damage ticks and its not like 2-3 of them will kill you. I don't think I even took a single instance of storm damage while clearing the lumber mill. You're not gonna travel long distances but you can absolutely go to the house across the street and start clearing it for example.

And see when that happens it's great it's cool. Especially if you got feral sense on and zombies are beating down your door

But when you just run in a biome and a storm is active. And your just trying to get home it's a pain in the ■■■ sense there's nothing you can do about it. Cuz of it I set it to 50 bs 150 and ima see how it plays out

Post automatically merged: Friday at 9:23 AM

Also the fact that storms can deal like 20 damage is crazy that should be a setting and I understand Radation storms dealing that and ember storms but sandstorm I just need a mask or something and thick clothes

 

[bdubyah]

I would say those are two very different things. You can't fight the storm. You can't punch it or shoot it. Currently, you just take damage, and the only two things you can do are try to replenish your HP with medkits or bandages, or go inside.

On the other hand, if you have debuffs, you can adjust your strategy for fighting zombie. It's the same if you have a broken leg, for example, or are thirsty or hungry. Do you fight the same way when you're injured as when you're healthy? Probably not.

So you want the storms to just be like having a broken leg or being thirsty? Then you'll complain that it's just more of the same and isn't adding anything new.

There doesn't always have to be a way to "fight" something.

 

[RipClaw]

So you want the storms to just be like having a broken leg or being thirsty? Then you'll complain that it's just more of the same and isn't adding anything new.

I would like the game to give players the option of whether they would rather endure the storm outside, where it is more dangerous, or spend their time indoors.

There doesn't always have to be a way to "fight" something.

If you can't do anything but wait, it's boring. And eating bandages just to stay alive is not fun at all.

Even if you want to play it safe and wait inside, there are players who love challenges. They love it when the game gets more difficult. So why not give them that option?

 

[bdubyah]

I would like the game to give players the option of whether they would rather endure the storm outside, where it is more dangerous, or spend their time indoors.

If you can't do anything but wait, it's boring. And eating bandages just to stay alive is not fun at all.

Even if you want to play it safe and wait inside, there are players who love challenges. They love it when the game gets more difficult. So why not give them that option?

What do you mean? You already have the option to endure it outside... It isn't like you just drop dead if you walk out into a storm.

 

[grz__]

I've already given my opinion on this many times, but I'll say it again.

Storms should be dangerous in themselves; they should kill you. I understand that some people don't like them, but that doesn't mean storms are bad. Besides, they can be disabled in the menu. Since 2.0 came out, I've been asking for an option in the menu to calibrate the intensity: more damage, less damage, longer duration, shorter duration, intensity, frequency, etc.



Unfortunately, it's likely that tfp will end up nerfing the storm for everyone so much that it will lose its concept of storms killing you, and I'll have to install another mod to the endless list.



What some detractors of storms don't understand is that the beauty of storms is that they create adrenaline-fueled, intense, and dangerous situations, and that's what makes it fun, especially if you play with permadeath. If you don't like that concept, that's fine, but it doesn't mean it's bad, as some people try to make it seem.



Now, what could be improved about storms? In my opinion, the edges of the biomes would be the priority. As others have already mentioned, you go from a sunny, wonderful day to hell in just one block. I would make the storm warning text messages optional, and maybe add a protective suit for the late game to temporarily mitigate the effects until it breaks.

 

[RipClaw]

What do you mean? You already have the option to endure it outside... It isn't like you just drop dead if you walk out into a storm.

Let me tell you a story. Once, a storm caught me off guard at the end of a T6 quest. I just wanted to stash the loot in the gyrocopter, but I couldn't make it in time without taking damage. If eating a bandage every 20–30 seconds to compensate for HP loss is your idea of fun, it isn't mine. I had no choice but to wait until the storm passed.

Another time, I was about 600 meters from the border of the green biome. This time, I decided to make a run for it, but I lost about half of my HP for no reason other than being outside. That's just stupid.

To be honest, I don't understand why anyone would like the current storm implementation. Perhaps you could explain what you like about it to me?

 

[grz__]

Let me tell you a story. Once, a storm caught me off guard at the end of a T6 quest. I just wanted to stash the loot in the gyrocopter, but I couldn't make it in time without taking damage. If eating a bandage every 20–30 seconds to compensate for HP loss is your idea of fun, it isn't mine. I had no choice but to wait until the storm passed.

Another time, I was about 600 meters from the border of the green biome. This time, I decided to make a run for it, but I lost about half of my HP for no reason other than being outside. That's just stupid.

To be honest, I don't understand why anyone would like the current storm implementation. Perhaps you could explain what you like about it to me?

That's what makes storms fun, not being able to predict what's going to happen and having to adapt. It's an apocalypse that won't adapt to your needs.

. If eating a bandage every 20–30 seconds to compensate for HP loss is your idea of fun, it isn't mine.

What's your idea of a fun movement debuff? Speed stamina?
I can understand that they complement each other, but replacing it with damage would be awful and boring in my opinion.

 

[RipClaw]

That's what makes storms fun, not being able to predict what's going to happen and having to adapt. It's an apocalypse that won't adapt to your needs.

What happens is always the same. You go outside and suffer damage, or you stay inside and suffer no damage. There are no unknowns.

What's your idea of a fun movement debuff? Speed stamina?
I can understand that they complement each other, but replacing it with damage would be awful and boring in my opinion.

The fun lies in fighting under challenging conditions. You have to adapt to the situation. Rather than using power attacks constantly, you have to conserve your stamina as you did on the first day. If you're slow, you can't just run away, so you have to be careful not to attract too many zombies by firing guns indiscriminately.

If players take damage just for being outside, the only thing you achieve is that they stay inside and stare at the wall.