PC How do I put this?...Rollback please?!?!?! FUN PIMPS! Whyyyyyy?!?!?!

[P0yzin]

This New Update is a Slap in the Face to Dedicated Players and a greedy money grab to the new ones. (if there are any now)

After playing this game for years and investing over 3000 hours, I have to speak up.

This latest update....sorry but... its absolutely terrible. It feels like the Fun Pimps completely ignored the core player base—the ones who have supported the game from the beginning—and instead just went for a straight money grab, probably because they have misspent, abused their investments, or no longer have a consistent inflow of funds. It's definitely NOT for the fun of the game and the player base, and THAT....we know, we can tell.

The changes have either broken systems that didn’t need fixing or made core mechanics frustrating and needlessly complicated. Most of the promised updates from years of promises have yet to surface and yet here we are.
The entire "Biome Badge" lock out absolutely destroys any sense of exploration that once existed. We’ve all learned to master and enjoy mechanics over the years that were either janky or normal, that have been gutted or replaced, changed or removed, and we've stuck it out with this "team of devs" no matter what happened. But now, with no consideration for how it affects long-time dedicated players whatsoever, the ones who actually have pushed this game to continue all this time even through all the monotony and delays, ... we have been ignored and slapped in the face with this new biome lock out, useless PAID cosmetic DLC, and reworks/fixes promised yet never happened.

Survival? Is it gone...??? Eat your glass jars and cans with the food and water I guess eh? UI changes? Are there any useful ones? The Grind? Even more excessive or just plain boring now. And don't even get me started on the new zombie types—who asked for those things....? The new bees flying around everywhere...fine, I get it...add some difficulty. The relentless "same zombie appearing every 5 seconds in the desert" is completely unnecessary. Why? Because you want to show off your mediocre development of "something new".....please.

We’ve been giving feedback, testing updates and mods (tons of really good mods actually), and helping shape this game’s community and efforts for years. But instead of rewarding that loyalty, this update feels like a reset that punishes anyone who actually put in the time or stuck with it through all the bs.

I get that Fun Pimps need to attract new players, hence consistent updates—but not at the expense of the ones who have kept the game alive. We’re not asking for everything to stay the same forever. We’re asking to be respected and listened to AND NOT LOCKED OUT OF CORE GAMEPLAY AND EXPLORATION?!@?!?!@##@$%@

Please, if any devs are reading this—stop chasing trends and start focusing on what made this game special in the first place: the community that has stuck with you through every patch, every bug, and every win.

Disappointed doesn't even begin to cover it. I for one am praying that they read endless bags of edited reviews, constant forum discussions on how terrible this update was, stop banning players for voicing their opinions in the forums.... and instead....MAYBE JUST MAYBE ADMIT THIS WAS A BAD UPDATE....>>!>!>!>!>!>

Do you even realize how INCREDIBLE it would be for the Fun Pimps to literally hop on here and say.....
"You know what players...we're sorry for this one. You were right. We kinda screwed the pooch on this update and we're gonna make it better. Please give us a moment to adjust, we will not disappoint you."

O M G I cannot begin to only hope to see their actual words come through in such a caring way for their player base THAT IS SPEAKING UP. The players tell you because they LOVE 7DTD and they don't want to see it die.

I will continue to stay here for a much longer time if I see this kind of care and effort put into a product from the developers, that's why I even support early access to any degree actually...., and I know I'm not alone.

Please FUN PIMPS...please please do NOT let this update be the death of you! We are all seeing waaaaay too many bad reviews and responses to this one.
Help us.........we are waiting and we will continue to support you when you make this right.

P.S. - Please don't ban me for voicing my opinion.

LINK TO STEAM FORUMS discussion also- please take a look at all the responses!

How do I put this?...Rollback please?!?!?! FUN PIMPS! Whyyyyyy?!?!?! :: 7 Days to Die General Discussions

This New Update is a Slap in the Face to Dedicated Players and a greedy money grab to the new ones. (if there are any now) After playing this game for years and investing over 3000 hours, I have to speak up. This latest update....sorry but... its absolutely terrible. It feels like the Fun Pimps...

steamcommunity.com

 

[Lax]

The problem with your passionate rant is that it's purely subjective. What about others who actually like the update or those who may not like all of it but still think it's fine?

 

[Riamus]

Why is it that every one of these posts state the person has played for thousands of hours? First, no one cares. It doesn't make your opinions on what is good or bad more valid than someone who has played for only 100 hours. They are, after all, only opinions. Everyone has different opinions. Second, that just shows that you like the game enough to play it that much and that you've easily gotten a great value from the cost of the game. It may have changed since you originally bought the game, but you can always play the older version that you prefer. Change is what happens when a game is being developed. Especially in Early Access, when things are often placeholders or incomplete or entirely missing until there is time to implement them, and where some things are tested and found to not be good enough and are removed. That's what you should expect.

In any case, you may not like things that are changed, but other people do. The game will continue to be played by lots of people who enjoy it even if you don't like how things have changed. I doubt anyone here likes everything that TFP has done with this game, but that doesn't mean those choices aren't going to be liked by others. And there are plenty of people who are enjoying this update. Steam forums are hardly a place to go to see valid comments. It's a place to see nothing but complainers and trash talkers. That's almost as bad as suggesting people look at Reddit or YouTube.

If you have a specific thing you think should be improved (and have a legitimate suggestion for how to improve it), post it. Rants like this won't help your cause. And if it's a legitimate suggestion and something that makes sense, TFP might actually listen. They're already making adjustments from what people have said regarding 2.0. But if you can only rant about stuff, it'll just get ignored.

 

[Dark Sun]

<snip>

I pretty much avoid everywhere 7D2D-related nowadays, given that every second / every popular post is "I hate this game / this update, bring back jars and other things". It's beyond exhausting and if they were being positive about the game instead of toxic/whiny, I'd give them respect for keeping it up for this long.

 

[meganoth]

There never (or almost never) were any empty containers for oil, honey, gas, ... in this game. But nobody ever notices or complains about those, everyone accepts that those containers are simply virtually implied.
You have an unlimited supply of containers for fluids like oil, honey, and now waters as well. When you need them you have them with you. If the fluid is used up the container goes back into that unlimited supply. Oh look, how nice, less micromanagement grind.

It simply confounds me how many people are not able to grasp this simple fact when almost all games do similar simplifications, outside of simulations.

 

[Kyoji]

I told everyone this update was subpar. While I disagree with a lot of the OP and the way it is presented and can surely find things to nitpick, the general sense is that people really do not like the new update as it is currently implemented and many of these issues I have discussed at length. Youtube videos from JaWoodle and JustRob have said as much in addition to the throngs of people in the forums, reddit and steam. Most of the people who defend it still think there could be some positive changes. To me that tells me the update fell short and the developers should look at some of the feedback and work to make it better.

 

[BFT2020]

This New Update is a Slap in the Face to Dedicated Players and a greedy money grab to the new ones. (if there are any now)

After playing this game for years and investing over 3000 hours, I have to speak up.

This latest update....sorry but... its absolutely terrible. It feels like the Fun Pimps completely ignored the core player base—the ones who have supported the game from the beginning

I'm a member of the core player base and been loving this update so far.

 

[theFlu]

There never (or almost never) were any empty containers for oil, honey, gas

"Almost never" ... honey gave a jar at some point when eaten, and Oil recipe required a can early on.

 

[Riamus]

I told everyone this update was subpar. While I disagree with a lot of the OP and the way it is presented and can surely find things to nitpick, the general sense is that people really do not like the new update as it is currently implemented and many of these issues I have discussed at length. Youtube videos from JaWoodle and JustRob have said as much in addition to the throngs of people in the forums, reddit and steam. Most of the people who defend it still think there could be some positive changes. To me that tells me the update fell short and the developers should look at some of the feedback and work to make it better.

There isn't any doubt that a lot of people aren't too happy with this update. I have said myself that I will likely disable storms and biome progression permanently once I start a new game after I've given them a decent chance. And, unfortunately, that's 90% of what this update is about. So I am not really a fan of the update either, though there are certainly things I like about it. But ranting over it without giving actual suggestions for improving it does nothing. They've already said they are looking at improving things based on feedback, but if people can't give actual suggestions instead of just ranting, it won't help them to make it better.

In the end, TFP is moving towards a very linear path because they are moving towards when they implement a story that they want to follow a certain path and so they can try to get people to move to other biomes. A lot of us aren't going to like that, no matter how they implement it or what they do to improve it. As long as it can be disabled, that's okay.

 

[Dark Sun]

There isn't any doubt that a lot of people aren't too happy with this update. I have said myself that I will likely disable storms and biome progression permanently once I start a new game after I've given them a decent chance. And, unfortunately, that's 90% of what this update is about. So I am not really a fan of the update either, though there are certainly things I like about it. But ranting over it without giving actual suggestions for improving it does nothing. They've already said they are looking at improving things based on feedback, but if people can't give actual suggestions instead of just ranting, it won't help them to make it better.

In the end, TFP is moving towards a very linear path because they are moving towards when they implement a story that they want to follow a certain path and so they can try to get people to move to other biomes. A lot of us aren't going to like that, no matter how they implement it or what they do to improve it. As long as it can be disabled, that's okay.

My biggest gripe with the biome progression is the challenges feel very uninspired and don't encourage you to stick around the biome long-term to complete them. There's conflicting design philosophies from harvest 5 mushrooms, to spend tens of minutes driving around playing Where's Waldo? as you go scavenger hunting for the biome zombie to kill. It's very artificial feeling and tedious, and the whole system doesn't feel organic to the progression or add to the experience, in my opinion. Personally, they feel like nothing burger challenges that double as inconvenient roadblocks to navigate through, and don't offer much in terms of replayability.

I have a few suggestions to overhaul and improve these challenges. Increase the timer from x amount of tens of minutes as they are now, to an in-game week. Really encourage the player to get to know the biome more, set up an outpost, and complete other challenges such as, complete x amount of trader missions there, or even survive a blood moon in that biome. Killing 25 mutated zombies won't be half as bad either if you're hunkered down in the wasteland for a week or more, given you'd be filling the progress meter automatically. Because right now, the challenges are almost telling you to get in and get out and go home as soon as possible.

 

[P0yzin]

There isn't any doubt that a lot of people aren't too happy with this update. I have said myself that I will likely disable storms and biome progression permanently once I start a new game after I've given them a decent chance. And, unfortunately, that's 90% of what this update is about. So I am not really a fan of the update either, though there are certainly things I like about it. But ranting over it without giving actual suggestions for improving it does nothing. They've already said they are looking at improving things based on feedback, but if people can't give actual suggestions instead of just ranting, it won't help them to make it better.

In the end, TFP is moving towards a very linear path because they are moving towards when they implement a story that they want to follow a certain path and so they can try to get people to move to other biomes. A lot of us aren't going to like that, no matter how they implement it or what they do to improve it. As long as it can be disabled, that's okay.

I think half the point of 7DTD that even brought me to play it in the first place was that it "was NOT linear" and I could do what I want. I didn't have "bounds" or I could literally explore wherever whenever I wanted and just play or build or destroy etc.... Why now is half the gameplay linear and for any progression of our character WE MUST do what they say???!?!?
In addition we are now obviously seeing paid DLC's beginning to happen? This whole microtransaction thing is also throwing tons of people off. It's simply the idea that they are completely off the original path. The whole point of a game is for each individual to have the fun that they want out of it, not how someone else thinks they should play it. This update has shown a lot of us that they simply do not care nearly as much as they used to about the player base they already have.

Also, having thousands of hours in a product DOES count for something, unlike some of the others here going on about someone "ranting". I already posted that I understand they need to continually bring in new players, we all understand that, but there's a point being missed.
My "passionate subjective rant" as some are putting it is NOT just that..... GO READ THE POSTS happening. This is by FAR one of the worst updates to date for this game, and the public is speaking on it. I am NOT the only one saying these things, actually I am mirroring tons of players saying exactly what I have. Look how big of a subject this has actually become compared to other updates?!>!!? It's obvious to the player base and true fans how this is going, even major players and influencers for this title have stated as such.
I am not just on some rant, but instead I am here voicing my opinion on what I have literally found to be one of my absolute favorite games. I think it's only necessary at this point. I literally never post on forums....this one...got me. It felt necessary.

Go buy a new phone and find out it does NOTHING like you expected. You think people won't say anything? Instead you want to just call people crazy at their opinions and say they are "ranting" and your opinion doesn't matter?....well in that case it's the same for the others right? It goes the same for BOTH SIDES!!!!

As for offering suggestions, we have been....for YEARS.......the player base has even been told certain things will be done FOR YEARS....and yet.... here we are. You see....this is not just some "rant". It's a dedicated player speaking about some very undelightful changes that he sees one of his favorite products just went through. It's sad...it's upsetting...and I KNOW i'm not alone on this one.

 

[P0yzin]

My biggest gripe with the biome progression is the challenges feel very uninspired and don't encourage you to stick around the biome long-term to complete them. There's conflicting design philosophies from harvest 5 mushrooms, to spend tens of minutes driving around playing Where's Waldo? as you go scavenger hunting for the biome zombie to kill. It's very artificial feeling and tedious, and the whole system doesn't feel organic to the progression or add to the experience, in my opinion. Personally, they feel like nothing burger challenges that double as inconvenient roadblocks to navigate through, and don't offer much in terms of replayability.

I have a few suggestions to overhaul and improve these challenges. Increase the timer from x amount of tens of minutes as they are now, to an in-game week. Really encourage the player to get to know the biome more, set up an outpost, and complete other challenges such as, complete x amount of trader missions there, or even survive a blood moon in that biome. Killing 25 mutated zombies won't be half as bad either if you're hunkered down in the wasteland for a week or more, given you'd be filling the progress meter automatically. Because right now, the challenges are almost telling you to get in and get out and go home as soon as possible.

I can absolutely agree to what you're saying and I actually love some of these suggestions. I have literally found myself simply sitting inside somewhere just WAITING for nothing....wasting time.....waiting for the storm to go...waiting for biome timer......this is actually completely wasteful and unnecessary. Part of the ridicule i'm getting is even in relation to these things. This I don't understand.

Why force players to literally just sit inside somewhere waiting for a timer to go away......the storms are literally a simple time waster and it's utterly annoying imo. I can think of a thousand different ways to implement "storms" if they want compared to just .... "go inside and play it safe"... like i'm sorry but....yuck. ....sit...wait...sit...wait...stare at screen...gone yet?...sit...wait.... If you are home, ok fine, craft during the storms or w/e.....when you are out and about...it's not hard to avoid but then...ur just stuck waiting....and waiting...and waiting....and waiting............it's a time suck...that's all.

 

[P0yzin]

I'm a member of the core player base and been loving this update so far.

I'm actually very glad to see players still enjoying my favorite game also, don't get me wrong but....
Let me ask you a 1 question then about the storms particularly.

When you are out and about, and a storm happens, it's not hard to avoid or deal with the damage, right? we all know that....but do you find yourself literally just sitting inside somewhere "waiting" it out afterwards?.... already looted, killed zeds, quested your building etc...
Think about it..... what does that "storm" actually do to the gameplay. Are you seriously not just finding your time wasted by waiting it out or just running inside somewhere to avoid it.?!?!?!.... Honest question...

And please, just think about your experience with it so far....don't try to sugar coat your answer to make storms sound "ok"...think about it.... honestly...what kind of gameplay changes have occurred to your normal game because of it?

 

[Riamus]

I think half the point of 7DTD that even brought me to play it in the first place was that it "was NOT linear" and I could do what I want. I didn't have "bounds" or I could literally explore wherever whenever I wanted and just play or build or destroy etc.... Why now is half the gameplay linear and for any progression of our character WE MUST do what they say???!?!?
In addition we are now obviously seeing paid DLC's beginning to happen? This whole microtransaction thing is also throwing tons of people off. It's simply the idea that they are completely off the original path. The whole point of a game is for each individual to have the fun that they want out of it, not how someone else thinks they should play it. This update has shown a lot of us that they simply do not care nearly as much as they used to about the player base they already have.

Also, having thousands of hours in a product DOES count for something, unlike some of the others here going on about someone "ranting". I already posted that I understand they need to continually bring in new players, we all understand that, but there's a point being missed.
My "passionate subjective rant" as some are putting it is NOT just that..... GO READ THE POSTS happening. This is by FAR one of the worst updates to date for this game, and the public is speaking on it. I am NOT the only one saying these things, actually I am mirroring tons of players saying exactly what I have. Look how big of a subject this has actually become compared to other updates?!>!!? It's obvious to the player base and true fans how this is going, even major players and influencers for this title have stated as such.
I am not just on some rant, but instead I am here voicing my opinion on what I have literally found to be one of my absolute favorite games. I think it's only necessary at this point. I literally never post on forums....this one...got me. It felt necessary.

Go buy a new phone and find out it does NOTHING like you expected. You think people won't say anything? Instead you want to just call people crazy at their opinions and say they are "ranting" and your opinion doesn't matter?....well in that case it's the same for the others right? It goes the same for BOTH SIDES!!!!

As for offering suggestions, we have been....for YEARS.......the player base has even been told certain things will be done FOR YEARS....and yet.... here we are. You see....this is not just some "rant". It's a dedicated player speaking about some very undelightful changes that he sees one of his favorite products just went through. It's sad...it's upsetting...and I KNOW i'm not alone on this one.

Except you don't have to play it that way. Turn off the things you don't want. If you don't want loot caps or biome hazards to limit how you progress, disable them. Those are really the only progression things in the game other than the Open Trade Route quests, which can easily be ignored or done at any point in time. As far as linear, that's just how they have chosen to make the game. You can avoid it very easily, but that will be how the default settings are set up. I never follow their progression. It's not hard to ignore it and do things the way you want.

Paid DLC during development is hardly a new thing. And considering they are entirely optional, I see no problem with them.

A rant is a rant, no matter how many people agree or how many hours you play. You are continuing to rant now, making your post not worth much. As I said, if you have specific and valid suggestions that they can use to improve the things you want improved, then post them. If you just want to complain and rant, then feel free... but don't be upset that your ideas aren't implemented if you didn't even post any. And, no... they aren't going to remove progression from the game. If you want to give suggestions on improving progression, then go ahead. But if you just want to say to remove it, you're wasting your time because it won't happen.

And to be clear, I didn't say your opinion doesn't matter. I said that ranting about it will accomplish nothing. Give your opinion in a constructive way, with actual suggestions that they could use, and then it will at least have a chance of accomplishing something. TFP is already making changes based on feedback. But if you don't give feedback that has suggestions in it, you can't be upset that they didn't listen to you. And you still have not given any suggestions for improvement.

If you just want to rant, go ahead. No one will stop you. But if you actually care about trying to get the game to be better, step off your soap box and offer some real suggestions that fit within the scope of what they are making the game.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 9:56 PM

My biggest gripe with the biome progression is the challenges feel very uninspired and don't encourage you to stick around the biome long-term to complete them. There's conflicting design philosophies from harvest 5 mushrooms, to spend tens of minutes driving around playing Where's Waldo? as you go scavenger hunting for the biome zombie to kill. It's very artificial feeling and tedious, and the whole system doesn't feel organic to the progression or add to the experience, in my opinion. Personally, they feel like nothing burger challenges that double as inconvenient roadblocks to navigate through, and don't offer much in terms of replayability.

I have a few suggestions to overhaul and improve these challenges. Increase the timer from x amount of tens of minutes as they are now, to an in-game week. Really encourage the player to get to know the biome more, set up an outpost, and complete other challenges such as, complete x amount of trader missions there, or even survive a blood moon in that biome. Killing 25 mutated zombies won't be half as bad either if you're hunkered down in the wasteland for a week or more, given you'd be filling the progress meter automatically. Because right now, the challenges are almost telling you to get in and get out and go home as soon as possible.

Now these are some suggestions that could be used to improve the biome hazards. Thank you for posting actual suggestions. You might consider posting them in your own thread since this one may get ignored due to the way it was started. But that's up to you. TFP may still see it in here.

 

[P0yzin]

Except you don't have to play it that way. Turn off the things you don't want. If you don't want loot caps or biome hazards to limit how you progress, disable them. Those are really the only progression things in the game other than the Open Trade Route quests, which can easily be ignored or done at any point in time. As far as linear, that's just how they have chosen to make the game. You can avoid it very easily, but that will be how the default settings are set up. I never follow their progression. It's not hard to ignore it and do things the way you want.

Paid DLC during development is hardly a new thing. And considering they are entirely optional, I see no problem with them.

A rant is a rant, no matter how many people agree or how many hours you play. You are continuing to rant now, making your post not worth much. As I said, if you have specific and valid suggestions that they can use to improve the things you want improved, then post them. If you just want to complain and rant, then feel free... but don't be upset that your ideas aren't implemented if you didn't even post any. And, no... they aren't going to remove progression from the game. If you want to give suggestions on improving progression, then go ahead. But if you just want to say to remove it, you're wasting your time because it won't happen.

And to be clear, I didn't say your opinion doesn't matter. I said that ranting about it will accomplish nothing. Give your opinion in a constructive way, with actual suggestions that they could use, and then it will at least have a chance of accomplishing something. TFP is already making changes based on feedback. But if you don't give feedback that has suggestions in it, you can't be upset that they didn't listen to you. And you still have not given any suggestions for improvement.

If you just want to rant, go ahead. No one will stop you. But if you actually care about trying to get the game to be better, step off your soap box and offer some real suggestions that fit within the scope of what they are making the game.

Post automatically merged: Sunday at 9:56 PM

Now these are some suggestions that could be used to improve the biome hazards. Thank you for posting actual suggestions. You might consider posting them in your own thread since this one may get ignored due to the way it was started. But that's up to you. TFP may still see it in here.

Ya umm.... Ok sorry bro but nah...I think you're a bit off on your judgement of our "opinions" in a forum. Lol.
I'm not on a so called "soap box" here, (I found that rather rude for you to say actually) I'm simply stating an opinion over the state of the most recent update. Forums like this are ENTIRELY why they are here. I don't HAVE TO OFFER ANY suggestions..... I am not obligated to do that in anything I say... and btw I have...many many many times over the years done that already and will continue to do so. I also have not been rude in any way with any of the things I have said regarding this update. I simply am voicing my disappointment. I have every right to voice my opinion along with others about our current "dismay" over the recent changes/update of one of our favorite products and I for one cannot stand that people like you simply ridicule our opinions, belittle them and say they are worthless and don't offer anything unless I give suggestions..... the opinion alone is the point!!!!
Go to google reviews on the company you own....oh wait... maybe you don't have one... lol maybe that's why you don't understand these things but look....OPINIONS can make a difference especially when there is a ton of the "same" types or category of said opinion. I do not expect every single customer of mine that is not happy with our service, (not many over the years lol) to HAVE TO GIVE SUGGESTIONS on how to make things better.... shoot as a matter of fact, If I tell those people to F off unless they have something "worthwhile" to say...you know what will happen? LMFAO.....

Please DO NOT belittle people and there opinions here simply because you disagree with what they say or even how they say it. As long as they aren't calling names, ridiculing, getting nasty etc.... they have EVERY RIGHT to state their opinion on any matter they deem necessary, especially when it is simply an opinion on a game they very much enjoy.

I for one feel like I am helping many people voice themselves on the current state of things with this latest update. Heck, quite a few have asked me to say something. I do have a way of getting to people in the way I speak and many of them ask me to do so on a regular basis in other situations literally because of this very point. I tend to get responses. It's just how it is brother. Sorry but, I am NOT obligated to agree with ANYONE when it comes to my opinions.

The fact that I had to even get this "deep" in defending my opinion here is actually baffling to me. The way some of the responses are coming in is crazy.... It's a game we love....that we spend time on, (some of us too much time), and when we feel something is changing that we don't like, why can't we simply just say that and not be "forced" to be constructive or give suggestions etc..... I'M NOT THE DEV BRO!!!! I don't need to give suggestions.... and I feel even my opinion, good or bad about a product, can still be "constructive".!!!! See this is what you missed I think.

Anyway... I didn't expect to write that much, I'm sorry lol. But thank you for reading it. It comes straight from my heart. I LOVE 7 DAYS TO DIE and I just do not want to see it go away quite yet.....i'm not ready for that lol....but I feel these changes recently are making people delete it!!! I don't want to hear that!

BTW - If I have to change the game settings to the "older versions" to be good again, without the newly added features, I'm sorry but.... if that was my product and people were telling others to do that....I would feel my updates didn't quite work as intended. You know what I mean? lol

 

[Kalen]

There never (or almost never) were any empty containers for oil, honey, gas, ... in this game. But nobody ever notices or complains about those, everyone accepts that those containers are simply virtually implied.

I've never liked that argument. If there were sources of oil, honey, or gas out in the world that you could, theoretically, collect with a container then you can be sure people would have complained about the absence of those hypothetical containers. Jars are a completely different (IMO) thing because they could be used to collect water from the world. Games, survival games in particular, should strive for as much realism as possible.... and to have a game where you can see bodies of water that you can drink from, but for some reason can't collect feels very removed from reality.

That said, I'm not really all that opposed to their removal; water was far too easy to collect. But lets be honest about it, they were removed to make water more scarce.... not because "that's how everything else works"

 

[Riamus]

If there were sources of oil, honey, or gas out in the world that you could, theoretically, collect with a container then you can be sure people would have complained about the absence of those hypothetical containers.

Well, gas can be obtained from gas pumps and barrels. You wouldn't be just picking up a gas can from those locations... you'd be siphoning it into a container (or pouring it into one). So gas kind of fits. Honey and oil don't, of course. Though I suppose oil from cars could be considered that way... you might find oil already in containers in a few cars IRL, but if you're getting oil from cars you are scrapping, then it's coming from draining the oil into a container. The same for gas from scrapping cars, for that matter. So oil also kind of fits.

But that's not really important. It is true that TFP didn't want empty containers for anything in the game anymore. Whether or not they make sense to be gone doesn't really factor into their decision. I'm happy to see them gone because they were just a waste of space and made gathering water insanely easy. It may still be easy, but nowhere near as easy as it was with empty jars. I have no trouble with abstract things in games. It isn't hard for me to imagine that the container isn't really disappearing, but either being thrown away or stashed until I need it again. The real issue isn't really the jars, but whether or not you can gather water from a water source. That could be done without the use of empty jars. You could easily have it set so that when you walk to water and scoop it up, instead of drinking it, it just gives you a filled water jar without any need to have an empty one in your inventory. Abstraction like that is fine. But how do you keep it from being ridiculously simple to get water? They chose the route of dew collectors, which are still easy (not to mention looting, which is also easy). That is better, but still easy, and it loses the realism of being able to gather water from a lake or river. But in all the conversations about water, I haven't really seen any suggestions for it that don't make water as simple as with empty jars while still making it more realistic. The closest I think I've seen is to allow gathering it in a bucket since those can't stack and would require at least a little effort to gather a lot of water. If you made the bucket a unique item where you can only have one and it holds only up to 2 jars worth of water and you have to boil it to convert it to jars so it can be used, that could be enough to make it inconvenient enough for people to want to use dew collectors to gather water while still letting them have that realism. But people wouldn't like that. It's one of those no-win situations, I think.

 

[Kyoji]

If I am being honest finding a water source and a jar seems harder than the sheer number of murky waters I find out in the wild. The water scarcity has long since been remedied by loot tables un-doing the changes the developers made to make water harder to come by, sorta ironic. Perhaps if they made water less common in loot tables and instead offered empty jars as a potential reward which could be filled with water and then boiled, but the jar is consumed on use. That might make water slightly more challenging to come by while allowing players to gather water from world sources perhaps.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Would it be fair to say you want to love this game, but can't at this point? That's the way I feel about it, too, and what I think about it is following suit in a "follow your heart, but don't forget to bring your brain along" kind of way. In fact, I've withdrawn my recommendation of it to friends, much less anyone else, due to the ever-increasing industry shenanigans making their way into it whether consciously or not: linearization; co-called "challenges" and "achievements" that are anything but; tedium for the sake of tedium (so that CEOs can say, "people have spent 'x' numbers of hours in our game, so it must be good"); thorough gamification and paid "DLC" in a product that's, admittedly, not even finished. And that's just for starters.

I'm not going to cast shade on the characters of the developers because I don't know them from Adam's housecat and have no idea what their motivations are, but find it strange they've chosen to turn something unique into something so generic, there's nothing to write home about. My opinion of it has changed drastically from A21 to now and I further agree with Dark Sun's judgement that a lack of creativity and imagination is the primary reason. I don't think TFP has either an art department or a team of sound designers despite the financial success of the game because there's no coherent artistic vision or soundscape evident in it, but only the same kind of repetition and number crunching you'd expect in any other game. There's nothing creative or imaginative about modifying engine store assets; copying every other game out there; and presenting ever more "elements" the playerbase obviously neither wants or needs. That's become the hallmark of entities like Bethesda Softworks and is in no way the game studios' doing, but rather the doing of a paradigm that's swallowed the entire world whole and not the "fault" of any one person or group in particular, but rather namely late modernity; its Newtonian-Cartesianism; and all the pathologies that go along with it, including neoliberalism. Few would ever put forth the effort to even understand what that means for the planet and all its interrelated, interconnected lifeforms, including us, so I'll leave it at that. Those who would like to know why "it's a mad, mad world" we live in can look into it.

All our failures as a species are failures of imagination along with the near utter absence of empathy and people like Elon Musk, who glom onto the ridiculous notion that "the fundamental weakness of Western civilzation is empathy" are living embodiments of Nietzche's Last Man, afic, and hardly the "Ubermensch" they think they are. The Romantics, like William Blake, tried to warn us this was coming and people thought them crazy. Nonetheless, Urizen rules the world while his brother, Los, withers and dies.

Most everyone was expecting a dynamic weather system that required players to adjust to palpable differences among the biomes with preparations including gear -- you know, the partially implemented system that was removed in favor of the smoothie nonsense and paid DLC "cosmetics." And TFP knew that. It's not surprising that most everyone is disappointed in the update. Question is: what, if anything, is TFP going to do about it?

 

[Kalen]

But that's not really important. It is true that TFP didn't want empty containers for anything in the game anymore. Whether or not they make sense to be gone doesn't really factor into their decision. I'm happy to see them gone because they were just a waste of space and made gathering water insanely easy. It may still be easy, but nowhere near as easy as it was with empty jars.

As I said, I agree with the decision to remove jars.... I was simply refuting the often stated argument that one of the reasons for their removal was to make it work like other items. If that had anything to do with the decision it was fairly low on the list of reasons, IMO.