PC How could more attributes support building?

One perk tree should be for only one skill.

I would have a separate perk tree for each of the following:

  • Archery
  • Rifles
  • Shotguns
  • Handguns
  • Blades
  • Clubs
  • Stealth
  • Building
  • Scavenging
  • Trading
  • and more..


Why? Because binding two of them in the same tree restricts gameplay choices. Now you can perk in exactly what you want. No waste of points, no waste of time. Do you want to be a builder archer? Great. Do you want to be a scavenger with shotguns? Great. With the other system you are limited in the choices you make.

Just copy Skyrim's system. That is great. Why reinvent the wheel, TFP?

 
I think the main point was to gather as many perks into as little categories as possible, but it clearly didn't work out as good as anticipated.

Multiple SPs per level with many different categories gives way more freedom. Good idea.

 
I'm just glad we have talented modders that put back level by doing.

It's more enjoyable than placing points in a perk tree... nah a skill tree, call it what it is, it's not a perk when it's necessary. It's a required action in order to be able to do something. So it's not a perk. a perk would be a % for heads blowing off, or getting a few extra materials from mining etc.

Building should level by doing. It's pretty simple the more you practice the better you are. Not sure why so many people find that offensive. But hey, each to their own I suppose.

Tips his hat to Khaine for putting it back in his mod.

This is

 
I'm just glad we have talented modders that put back level by doing.
It's more enjoyable than placing points in a perk tree... nah a skill tree, call it what it is, it's not a perk when it's necessary. It's a required action in order to be able to do something. So it's not a perk. a perk would be a % for heads blowing off, or getting a few extra materials from mining etc.

Building should level by doing. It's pretty simple the more you practice the better you are. Not sure why so many people find that offensive. But hey, each to their own I suppose.

Tips his hat to Khaine for putting it back in his mod.

This is
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Actually you can build structures in this game without purchasing a single perk or skill or whatever you want to call them. You can build any sort of structure with what you have in terms of skills and perks on Day 1. There is nothing required you must buy from the list of perks in order to build anything you can dream up using some sort of block. Builders have full access from Day 1 and really are just gaining quality of life abilities to facilitate what they can already do.

 
Actually you can build structures in this game without purchasing a single perk or skill or whatever you want to call them. You can build any sort of structure with what you have in terms of skills and perks on Day 1. There is nothing required you must buy from the list of perks in order to build anything you can dream up using some sort of block. Builders have full access from Day 1 and really are just gaining quality of life abilities to facilitate what they can already do.
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True, but the game would be massively challenging bordering on terrible if you don't spec into things like Quality Joe. If you don't want to build weapons/tools and rely on Random Gen. However, if you don't put points into Quality Joe, chances of getting level 3 - 6 club or other weapons is massively reduced, (I don't know if they don't show up at all unless Quality Joe is triggered) which means in an extended game as your kill count goes up, and your gamestage rises, you'll be hard pressed to survive any fight.

Plus you need to have mods in the weapons in order to stay on par with the gamestage, which again, without a higher quality weapon you can't do.

I guess you could rely on traders, but that's a crap shoot too unless you put points into the barter option.

Are the better materials like forged steel hidden on the trader? or are they available at any time? Because building stronger structures basically rely on concrete or better mid to late game.

(Haven't played vanilla for a while, and Khaine hides the good stuff behind the barter perk, so I apologize if I'm turned around on the subject)

So the "perks" become a requirement, unless you're a glutton for punishment, or want a serious challenge.

 
Im a builder, and I can tel you what I want is to NOT have to do even more to earn what I already have today. I dont want to have to spend even more skill points just to build.

 
There are many directions the building enhancements could go (although i'm pretty sure some of these will never see the light of day):

- Speeding up resource gathering (way past what we have now) - Wrenches, pickaxes, chainsaws, augers and perhaps new tools working faster than ever. This could go in pair with lowering tool damage for enemies, because faster attacks would mean tools could be better at killing zombies, outclassing many weapons as they are. Add a chance for additional materials from mining/woodcutting/wrenching from a hit.

- Block upgrade enhancements- In the past it was very fun and easy to upgrade a ton of blocks to new versions in a small amount of time. Some mods or new tools could enhance this again, making it possible to upgrade blocks very fast (preferably in mid-late game). Another option is to lower the cost for upgrading.

- Block placement enhancements - Some might think it's nonsense, but some games that have building, also have special items that enhance how the mechanics of block placement works. Apart from faster putting down the blocks, there could be extended range for doing that.

- Item crafting upgrades - Apart from enhancing the work with blocks, why not upgrade how you craft? Introduce ways for faster crafting of certain groups of items, lower material cost or even add a chance for double item crafting from the same materials (when you have the crafting UI open).

- New tools for builders and miners - Some kind of visor that shows the working wires all the time (just like having the wiring tool in hand), some kind of detector that would indicate in overall distance from a chosen resource (enhance ore searching, but don't pinpoint directly distance), a special visor that measures distance and/or shows a faint outline of the grid (similar as when you want to place a block, but only from solid blocks and at a certain distance).

 
Actually what I'd like to see if you did a builder perk, would be improved SI.

It would be nice to be able to make an unsupported wood foot bridge 12 long instead of 7, but the improved repair and other items would be nice as well. I'm fortunate to game with friends that like to be moles and dig big holes, and deforest tree biomes, so I don't have to invest in the harvesting perks if I don't want to. (I mainly go with farming and hunting/cooking).

 
Actually what I'd like to see if you did a builder perk, would be improved SI.
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I doubt that'll ever happen, this would require the game to keep track of who build each and every player block in the game, an absolute nightmare, particularly if you consider that different parts of the building may have been built by different players with different levels of the perk.

 
True, but the game would be massively challenging bordering on terrible if you don't spec into things like Quality Joe. If you don't want to build weapons/tools and rely on Random Gen. However, if you don't put points into Quality Joe, chances of getting level 3 - 6 club or other weapons is massively reduced, (I don't know if they don't show up at all unless Quality Joe is triggered) which means in an extended game as your kill count goes up, and your gamestage rises, you'll be hard pressed to survive any fight.
Plus you need to have mods in the weapons in order to stay on par with the gamestage, which again, without a higher quality weapon you can't do.

I guess you could rely on traders, but that's a crap shoot too unless you put points into the barter option.

Are the better materials like forged steel hidden on the trader? or are they available at any time? Because building stronger structures basically rely on concrete or better mid to late game.

(Haven't played vanilla for a while, and Khaine hides the good stuff behind the barter perk, so I apologize if I'm turned around on the subject)

So the "perks" become a requirement, unless you're a glutton for punishment, or want a serious challenge.
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"Quality Joe" is a bad example for your argument (I assume you mean "lucky looter" which replaced QJ in A17) , but this is just a bonus on top of game stage for loot calculations. Your loot automatically gets better the higher your gamestage is, "lucky looter" is just an optional way to have a little more luck.

I'm pretty sure that you can find q6 weapons without any point in lucky looter.

You are right about forged steel requiring perks in A17, this will be different in A18 where all tech seems to be available as recipe books. You can still buy steel and everything else at traders, but probably not enough if you want to build big with steel.

That you have a harder time if you ignore part of the game (the perks points), well, that's not surprising really.

 
"Quality Joe" is a bad example for your argument (I assume you mean "lucky looter" which replaced QJ in A17) , but this is just a bonus on top of game stage for loot calculations. Your loot automatically gets better the higher your gamestage is, "lucky looter" is just an optional way to have a little more luck.
I'm pretty sure that you can find q6 weapons without any point in lucky looter.

You are right about forged steel requiring perks in A17, this will be different in A18 where all tech seems to be available as recipe books. You can still buy steel and everything else at traders, but probably not enough if you want to build big with steel.

That you have a harder time if you ignore part of the game (the perks points), well, that's not surprising really.
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Perhaps that one was a poor choice, but as I said, I haven't played Vanilla for some time because A17 I found was disappointing.

But the point I made still stands, if they're mandatory to improve in the game it's not a perk. It's a skill tree. And one that I feel adds nothing to the game quite honestly (The game played beautifully without it). But hey, the pimps will do what they do, and then the modders will change what they feel is not enjoyable.

I'm still pleased the Pimps do a good job of building a solid base game. I never played mods before a16. In a16, I started using mods, and in A17, played Vanilla first and was so put off it was staggering.

However, after watching Madmole's video, I am interested to see how a18 plays. Very pleased they dropped level gates, kudos to you pimps for removing that.

I just want optimization quite honestly. The smoother the game play the better. Plus the ability to have a city scape so filled with zombies that you take one look at it and say "NOPE" and come back later when you can handle the area. But in a17.4 that still isn't playable, more optimization is needed.

End game content would be nice too, but modders do a fantastic job of extending the life of the game

 
If there are enough ideas but they don’t fit well into the perk trees, perhaps these bonuses would be better as a set of books. In MP, others can help their builder out by looking out for them and bringing them back.

 
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