YourUndeadFriend
New member
Can someone please make a good learn by doing mod that replaces the vanilla perk and crafting system?
There are some overhaul mods that have systems that come close to what I'm looking for, but I don't necessarily enjoy everything else in the overhaul.
I'd much rather a standalone mod that I can pair with other standalone mods to create my own gameplay experience. This would likely mean keeping things as vanilla as possible to prevent conflicts with other MODs.
There are some standalone MODs out there like Hybrid Learn By Use (Action Skills) by @JoeSloeMoe (who was inspired by the system @KhaineGB uses in Darkness Falls) but it still doesn't completely do away with the perk points and doesn't change crafting progression system. There are also MODs like Natural Progression by aedenthorn that does change the crafting progression system but not necessarily in the way I think makes sense.
Feature wish list:
Perk System
It doesn't make sense that I can kill zombies with a spear gaining me a general perk point that I can then put into Salvage Operations making me better at breaking things down.
MODs like Vulnerabilities v.2 by @BlackRabbitMsk and Medical conditions by ExCyborg are effected by certain perk levels. There could be compatibility issues with MODs like these if the perk tree is modded too heavily like if certain perks are eliminated or combined, or the perk levels are changed to be X/50 for example. So there is some benefits to keeping the systems as vanilla as possible.
So if we keep all the same perk trees but unlock each perk with experience gained from doing, or being effected by things, associated with each perk.
Optional feature, keep a single magazine for each perk in the game that when reading would apply a temporary XP multiplier for the related perk. Should have a low chance to be found in loot where magazines would normally be found.
Each of the 5 main attribute perks would gain some XP any time any perk in its tree gains XP.
It would be pretty cool if there could be different XP amounts given, or bonus XP given, based on certain things.
For example a rifle would give X XP towards Dead Eye. But a headshot would give XP + small bonus XP, headshot kill would give XP + medium bonus XP, headshot with head dismemberment would give XP + large bonus XP. The Dead Eye perk also effects aiming and reloading, so maybe aimed shots give a small XP bonus to shots and anytime you reload it would also give XP. Reloading could be based on how many bullets get reloaded. For example if reloading a single shot pipe rifle would give 10XP, reloading a pipe machine gun that is 0/15 would five 150XP, reloading a 13/15 pipe machine gun would give 20XP.
Hopefully this can be done in a way that if other MODs are used that add addition weapons into the game like IZY-All in One Gun Pack by @Izayo and EFT Extraction Pack by stallionsden that those items also contribute to the correct XP gain.
Other perks where the progression may not be as straight forward:
Crafting System
Create a learn by doing system using experience gained from using or repairing items to unlock higher tiers. Again, keeping vanilla skills tiers the same to hopefully increase MOD compatibility.
MODs like Polluted Water by @khzmusik have things that unlock within vanilla tiers and overhauling them too much could possibly effect MODs like this. Other MODs I like to use like the Leveling Tool by @ocbMaurice add a tier in Repair Tools between the claw hammer and nailgun, but I guess if I need that skill to keep the vanilla tiers for other MODs I could drop or mod the Leveling Tool.
When it comes to crafting some learn-by-use MODs progress by using the items. I think that type of learn-by-use should contribute more to perk progression than crafting progression.
But most of the skills are things like weapons, tools, armor, and traps that you don't craft often enough to gain XP based only on the amount of items crafted.
For these skills I think that most should gain the bulk of their XP from repairing, scrapping, or salvaging. As you move up in tiers the amount of total XP needed to reach the next tier and the amount of XP gained by crafting, repairing, scrapping, or salvaging lower level tiered items should be such that its not optimal to craft lower tiered items just to progress tiers. For example if you are at tier 2 medical, it shouldn't be reasonable to bulk craft splints to reach tier 3.
Perk Books
I think this could remain completely vanilla. This (along with schematics) would still make looting bookshelves and mailboxes worth it. It could also provide modders the ability to make custom book series. This could be a way to influence perks and gameplay in a way that wouldn't involve overhauling the perk tree too far outside of the vanilla thereby keeping the perk tree compatible with more MODs.
Anyway, this is just a dream of mine. Thank you to all the modders I mentioned in this post for your awesome mods. There are so many others that make amazing mods as well that I didn't mention. 7 Days has an amazing MOD community. So, I guess thank you to any modder that popped in to read my stupidly long post.
There are some overhaul mods that have systems that come close to what I'm looking for, but I don't necessarily enjoy everything else in the overhaul.
I'd much rather a standalone mod that I can pair with other standalone mods to create my own gameplay experience. This would likely mean keeping things as vanilla as possible to prevent conflicts with other MODs.
There are some standalone MODs out there like Hybrid Learn By Use (Action Skills) by @JoeSloeMoe (who was inspired by the system @KhaineGB uses in Darkness Falls) but it still doesn't completely do away with the perk points and doesn't change crafting progression system. There are also MODs like Natural Progression by aedenthorn that does change the crafting progression system but not necessarily in the way I think makes sense.
Feature wish list:
Perk System
It doesn't make sense that I can kill zombies with a spear gaining me a general perk point that I can then put into Salvage Operations making me better at breaking things down.
MODs like Vulnerabilities v.2 by @BlackRabbitMsk and Medical conditions by ExCyborg are effected by certain perk levels. There could be compatibility issues with MODs like these if the perk tree is modded too heavily like if certain perks are eliminated or combined, or the perk levels are changed to be X/50 for example. So there is some benefits to keeping the systems as vanilla as possible.
So if we keep all the same perk trees but unlock each perk with experience gained from doing, or being effected by things, associated with each perk.
Optional feature, keep a single magazine for each perk in the game that when reading would apply a temporary XP multiplier for the related perk. Should have a low chance to be found in loot where magazines would normally be found.
Each of the 5 main attribute perks would gain some XP any time any perk in its tree gains XP.
It would be pretty cool if there could be different XP amounts given, or bonus XP given, based on certain things.
For example a rifle would give X XP towards Dead Eye. But a headshot would give XP + small bonus XP, headshot kill would give XP + medium bonus XP, headshot with head dismemberment would give XP + large bonus XP. The Dead Eye perk also effects aiming and reloading, so maybe aimed shots give a small XP bonus to shots and anytime you reload it would also give XP. Reloading could be based on how many bullets get reloaded. For example if reloading a single shot pipe rifle would give 10XP, reloading a pipe machine gun that is 0/15 would five 150XP, reloading a 13/15 pipe machine gun would give 20XP.
Hopefully this can be done in a way that if other MODs are used that add addition weapons into the game like IZY-All in One Gun Pack by @Izayo and EFT Extraction Pack by stallionsden that those items also contribute to the correct XP gain.
Other perks where the progression may not be as straight forward:
- The Infiltrator gains XP from taking damage from traps
- Animal Tracker could gain XP from the number of animals killed. Different from The Huntsman that would level by harvesting animals.
- Penetrator gets XP from hitting "weak spots: like head and maybe arms/legs. Maybe even a small amount from using AP ammo.
- Lucky looter, each container looted provides XP. Maybe with more XP given based on the container, wood crate would give less than a leather trunk that would give less than a hardened chest. And things like trash piles give very little.
- Treasure Hunter would give XP based how many treasure quests are done. Also maybe what biome they are in would effect the amount of XP. It would also be cool if the amount of times the radius is (or is not) reduced before opening the chest also effects the XP.
- Big and fast. Tricky and would maybe have to level alongside Pummel Pete and Skull Crusher just at a slower pace?
- Heavy Armor. Gains XP based on distance you sprint while wearing heavy armor. Amount is adjusted based on how many pieces (or which pieces) of heavy you are wearing.
- Pack Mule. Distance you move while encumbered. Maybe with walking and sprinting giving different amounts (sprinting would probably also apply to Rule 1: Cardio).
- Master Chef. Is a little tricky as it really comes close to having the same progression as the Food crafting skill. Maybe they just progress the same way.
- Miner 69'er and Motherload are also tricky as they would have pretty much the same progression path too. Maybe have they progress together but at a pretty slow rate?
- Lighting Hands is similar to Big and fast. Maybe just have it progress the same as The Brawler, just at a slower pace?
- Well Insulated gains XP based on the amount of time you spend at certain temperatures.
- Living off the Land. XP from harvesting player and wild crops and crafting farm plots.
- Pain Tolerance would gain XP from amount of damage taken.
- Healing Factor. This and Physician could have pretty similar progression. To keep them different maybe Healing Factor gains XP based on the amount of time you spend under a certain HP threshold? For example to unlock T1 Healing Factor you need to spend X amount of time below 100% health. To unlock T2 you have to spend X amount of time under 80%, T3 60%, T4 40%, and T5 20%.
- Iron Gut. I think the easy ones are some XP gained while holding breath underwater and the amount of time you have dysentery. For the "reduce food and water loss from physical exertion" part, maybe how much time is spent with low food and water. The amount of XP could change based on how long you are below certain thresholds similar to the Healing Factor suggestion
- Rule 1: Cardio. XP based on time spent, or the distance, you sprint. Maybe with more XP given while encumbered.
- Whirlwind like Lighting Hands and Big and Fast would have to level along side Deep Cuts.
- Run and Gun. Gains XP while landing shots while moving and not aiming with the possible bonus XP for headshots and dismemberments described in the Dead Eye. Also XP given for reloading while moving also based off the description in Dead Eye.
- Medium Armor. Same as Heavy armor, but for medium.
- Parkour XP gained per jump?
- Hidden Strike XP gained based on the amount of damage done from sneak attacks?
- From The Shadows Gain XP while crouched and moving. More XP given while crouched and sprinting. Maybe there is a way to make this more interesting? Is there a way to see if there is a hostile within a certain distance from you and that you are undetected? That way you cant just cheese it in your base late at night? Or at least maybe make is so XP is only gained while the stealth meter is below a certain level?
- Calculated Attack like Whirlwind, Lighting Hands, and Big and Fast would have to level along side Electrocutioner
- Better Barter A certain amount of XP from value of items bought and sold at traders.
- The Daring Adventurer XP gained based on the number of quests done.
- Charismatic Nature. XP gained based on the amount of time you are grouped, if possible maybe only the amount of time you are within a certain distance of a party member. Alternatively, or in addition, gain XP based on how many trader quests are done in a group?
- Physician. I may be overthinking this but this could be another tricky one. It would be great to base this on the amount of health and critical injuries you heal. But I'm not sure if you would need to specify the injuries and I would like this to be compatible with other MODs that add other types of injuries or conditions. I think the game can tag/group items as medical items so maybe whenever you use one of these you gain XP? That could make items added from other MODs like 7 Days of Insomnia by @Byteblazar that effect custom conditions give XP too?
- Advanced Engineering. Some of this could overlap with the Workstation crafting skill but I think Advanced Engineering should focus on gaining XP more from electrical trap damage/kills.
- Grease Monkey. XP gained based on how much time and/or distance is traveled using the vehicle in current tier. XP is also gained based on repairing the vehicle in current tier.
- Lock Picking. XP gained for each lock picked. Hopefully this is made easily compatible with MODs like Skyrim Style Lockpicking MiniGame by @xyth and Pick Locked Doors by aedenthorn
Crafting System
Create a learn by doing system using experience gained from using or repairing items to unlock higher tiers. Again, keeping vanilla skills tiers the same to hopefully increase MOD compatibility.
MODs like Polluted Water by @khzmusik have things that unlock within vanilla tiers and overhauling them too much could possibly effect MODs like this. Other MODs I like to use like the Leveling Tool by @ocbMaurice add a tier in Repair Tools between the claw hammer and nailgun, but I guess if I need that skill to keep the vanilla tiers for other MODs I could drop or mod the Leveling Tool.
When it comes to crafting some learn-by-use MODs progress by using the items. I think that type of learn-by-use should contribute more to perk progression than crafting progression.
But most of the skills are things like weapons, tools, armor, and traps that you don't craft often enough to gain XP based only on the amount of items crafted.
For these skills I think that most should gain the bulk of their XP from repairing, scrapping, or salvaging. As you move up in tiers the amount of total XP needed to reach the next tier and the amount of XP gained by crafting, repairing, scrapping, or salvaging lower level tiered items should be such that its not optimal to craft lower tiered items just to progress tiers. For example if you are at tier 2 medical, it shouldn't be reasonable to bulk craft splints to reach tier 3.
- Weapons, Tools, Robotics, and Armor Gain XP from crafting, repairing, and scrapping.
- Medical Gain XP based on quantity of items crafted and possibly by scrapping some items.
- Food Gain XP based on quantity of items crafted. Again hopefully this would just work with MODs that add food items like Food Spoilage and Preserved Foods by @khzmusik as long as they are made in the campfire?
- Seeds Gain XP from harvesting player and wild crops and crafting seeds.
- Electrician Gain XP from crafting, repairing, scrapping, and salvaging.
- Traps Gain XP from crafting, repairing, scrapping, and salvaging (some community made POIs have traps in them).
- Workstations This is a tough one. The best I can come up with is salvaging any workstation in the wild should give a decent amount of XP and the amount of time spent crafting items in workstations should provide XP. Hopefully this can be done by using something like the workstation class value so that crafting items in custom workstations like the optional Ammo Recycling Bench for @LittleRedSonja Ammunition Recycling and Oakraven Ammo Press by @oakraven and arramus contribute to the XP gain without needing any specific code.
- Vehicles Gain XP from salvaging vehicles in the wild and crafting and repairing you own vehicles. It would be great if salvaging vehicles added by other MODs like Vehicle Madness by @Ragsy 2145 would contribute XP to this.
Perk Books
I think this could remain completely vanilla. This (along with schematics) would still make looting bookshelves and mailboxes worth it. It could also provide modders the ability to make custom book series. This could be a way to influence perks and gameplay in a way that wouldn't involve overhauling the perk tree too far outside of the vanilla thereby keeping the perk tree compatible with more MODs.
Anyway, this is just a dream of mine. Thank you to all the modders I mentioned in this post for your awesome mods. There are so many others that make amazing mods as well that I didn't mention. 7 Days has an amazing MOD community. So, I guess thank you to any modder that popped in to read my stupidly long post.
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