PC Do you take strength only for pack mule?

[Limdood]

I was trying to make this a poll, but i can't find the option to do so, or I don't have permission...

I'm wondering, how many people here:

1) go into strength for pack mule, but WOULD NOT PUT POINTS HERE if pack mule was unnecessary or available elsewhere.

2) go into strength and take pack mule, and WOULD STILL go into strength if pack mule was unnecessary or available elsewhere.

3) go into strength but don't take pack mule (is this a thing? would people do this?)

4) don't put points into strength.

I don't mind the new attribute-based system, but it seems so many vital QoL aspects are restricted behind attributes that people are taking just for very specific perks that they feel they need, and to get the full benefit, you need to invest a huge amount into that attribute. You see it with crafting, with carrying capacity, with running and jumping, with heal-over-time, with looting bonuses, with trade prices, with gathering, and more....but it FEELS like (from using it, playing with others that use it, and reading the forums) that pack mule is possibly the biggest culprit here.

No matter the playstyle, it seems like people dip significantly into strength for pack mule...even if they grab NOTHING else from that attribute. What's more, it feels like a tax more than anything...here is thing that feels vital to the game (being able to carry more, especially with the wide range of tools, food, ammo, water, and plunder a given character ends up with), but you must invest X amount of character advancement resources towards it (fine, game taxes like that exist in all sorts of games), BUT you also need to invest in the strength attribute, which is purely for melee and gathering....so If you're one of the (I expect) vast majority who takes pack mule to any extent beyond 1, you've invested your character towards melee and gathering, even if that's not your thing.

I'm not sure what the solution is, if there's a solution....this is mostly just me wondering if other people share my thoughts.

If you can, please comment which number (1-4) applies to you, and feel free to expand on it. I'd love to hear other viewpoints beyond what i've personally experienced or gleaned by reading tangents in others' posts.

 

[Okraiderfan]

I have points in in specifically for pack mule. I don't like to melee unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Reth]

I take pack mule and some other perks related to melee damage and stamina use. I mostly melee as I find range weapons less rewarding overall in A17.

 

[PoppaTot]

I was trying to make this a poll, but i can't find the option to do so, or I don't have permission...
I'm wondering, how many people here:

1) go into strength for pack mule, but WOULD NOT PUT POINTS HERE if pack mule was unnecessary or available elsewhere.

2) go into strength and take pack mule, and WOULD STILL go into strength if pack mule was unnecessary or available elsewhere.

3) go into strength but don't take pack mule (is this a thing? would people do this?)

4) don't put points into strength.

I don't mind the new attribute-based system, but it seems so many vital QoL aspects are restricted behind attributes that people are taking just for very specific perks that they feel they need, and to get the full benefit, you need to invest a huge amount into that attribute. You see it with crafting, with carrying capacity, with running and jumping, with heal-over-time, with looting bonuses, with trade prices, with gathering, and more....but it FEELS like (from using it, playing with others that use it, and reading the forums) that pack mule is possibly the biggest culprit here.

No matter the playstyle, it seems like people dip significantly into strength for pack mule...even if they grab NOTHING else from that attribute. What's more, it feels like a tax more than anything...here is thing that feels vital to the game (being able to carry more, especially with the wide range of tools, food, ammo, water, and plunder a given character ends up with), but you must invest X amount of character advancement resources towards it (fine, game taxes like that exist in all sorts of games), BUT you also need to invest in the strength attribute, which is purely for melee and gathering....so If you're one of the (I expect) vast majority who takes pack mule to any extent beyond 1, you've invested your character towards melee and gathering, even if that's not your thing.

I'm not sure what the solution is, if there's a solution....this is mostly just me wondering if other people share my thoughts.

If you can, please comment which number (1-4) applies to you, and feel free to expand on it. I'd love to hear other viewpoints beyond what i've personally experienced or gleaned by reading tangents in others' posts.

I really tend to be a purist when it comes to gaming (play vanilla as the devs intend to be without mods) but I'm fairly certain if this was the final stable build that I would mod open backpacks into my server to avoid all this.

 

[mr.devolver]

Pack mule is one of the highest priorities in that category, but other things are also important in that category, miner 69er, salvage operations, etc. It's one of those categories where everyone picks something different for the most part, because it's a part of their specialization.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I take it for pack mule only, maybe Miner 69er sometimes. I melee mostly because ranged weapons suck now. A sledge and some stamina is all I need to kill. INB4 b234 sees sledge dmg cut in half. I might put points into other STR stuff, but it's all so weak and not worth the ROI, it just doesn't make any sense to dump points into doing 5% more damage or swinging 10% faster or w/e. I'm sure it sounded like a good idea for whoever thought of it and all the yes men who were obliged to tell them what a good idea it was, but in practice it's just an entire tree that was not very well thought out for the type of game that 7d2d is.

 

[PoppaTot]

Pack mule is one of the highest priorities in that category, but other things are also important in that category, miner 69er, salvage operations, etc. It's one of those categories where everyone picks something different for the most part, because it's a part of their specialization.

Totally agree with this, I take it for the miner/builder items along with the backpack, but I don't see a reason why the farmer/medic of our group would have to specialize in 3 different areas just do the role they want and have a backpack lol.

 

[Limdood]

Pack mule is one of the highest priorities in that category, but other things are also important in that category, miner 69er, salvage operations, etc. It's one of those categories where everyone picks something different for the most part, because it's a part of their specialization.

salvage operations is perception...I'll chime in...I'm split between 1 or 2.

I play mostly single player, or 2 player MP with a friend, so i tend to make use of motherlode and miner69er. I always take pack mule early as i can for pack space, and the other perk i don't see mentioned here that I (and i've seen others) mention taking elsewhere in the forums, especially in B231/233 is SexTrex. That being said, the first level of SexTrex is the biggest bonus, so I'll often leave it at 1 point for most of the game, which doesn't need any Strength investment.

That all being said, i often feel pigeonholed AWAY from ranged options. If i'm playing single player....I need the strength for gathering/pack mule, I need intelligence so i'm not using cave tools the whole game, and that leaves me with minimal points leftover, which often need to be spent buffing my stamina (because its brutal now) and parkour since i'm in agility anyways, and endurance for healing factor 3 (and...only healing factor 3...i find the endurance tree incredibly underwhelming). Almost every playthrough in single player, despite WANTING to use ranged weapons, I find myself leaving perception at 1. In my MP games, I managed to do a perception build once, solely by leaving ALL of the crafting up to my buddy, but even then, i found myself never being able to do much in the way of building or projects myself, and CONSTANTLY badgering him for gear...it wasn't fun.

 

[Krougal]

Prior to the current build (which I haven't had a chance to play, and somehow doubt I will)

MP - 3 str for packmule & miner (because a couple points still helps smashing down doors/safes) and that's probably it

SP - who the hell plays SP without harvesting perks? madness...yes, str, melee focused or not.

Really though, 2 points of packmule a nobrainer. After that...meh. By the time I've got a bicycle I can live with the encumberance, and then it just gets easier from there with higher capacity vehicles and armor mods.

IIRC 3 str will still be only 3 points so I imagine I won't change for MP. SP might go back to melee with the new ♥♥♥♥ty attribute cost of build dujour, but I hope it goes away next build.

 

[Ghostlight]

I was putting a lot of points in Strength for the overall melee damage increase, Sexy Rex, Pack Mule, Miner69er and Mother Lode, as I am usually the miner in my group. Also the melee damage perk whose name I forget, as I am a melee fighter typically.

So I am a (2) in theory*. Strength is THE priority tree for me tbh. Intellect tree is forced on me for crafting, so that is 2nd priority. The other 3 trees I hardly touch unless points are plentiful.

p.s. Surely Sexy Rex is the highest priority perk in Strength, not Pack Mule??

*Footnote: in latest build Miner69er is bugged (I think). As putting points into it reduces the total resource you get from a single tree/boulder, even if it still takes the same number of swings to mine it fully (which it did for me).

 

[Ghostlight]

The thread puzzles me. If there were any attribute trees I was question in design terms because they only contain one or two "vital" perks, it would be Agility, Perception and Fortitude.

Agility: I only go here for max Stamina and Cardio

Perception: I only go here for Salvage Operations

Fortitude: I only go here for max HP, Living Off the Land and the ability to make healing bandages (forget perk name).

 

[Scyris]

I view packmule/miner69/motherload as mandatory skills along with sex t-rex. Kinda the same way Int is pretty much mandatory if you wanna get anywhere. From Fort, Healing factor and living off the land are mandatory for me. Perception and agility has bascally no perks I consider mandatory at all, with most of them being a waste of points entirely. Parkour would be nice, but points are too precious below like level 150, and by lv 150 I'd not really NEED parkour anymore, as i'd be a walking death tank by then.

What agility needs is increased stam regen per stat point, to make it more appealing. Fort could also use a secondary bonus to its base stat, like str and perception has. I eventually get some agility, but like perception its mostly a dump stat for when I have spare points, which sadly happens much less in b231 with the stat perk point costs now.

 

[Krougal]

Are people thinking the new sexy rex is the same as the old sexy rex or am I missing something?

Isn't it only useful for melee builds since they basicly split it the old perk into 2 perks (cardio being the other half) ?

As always when this comes up, as an archer I don't find perception any more useless than any other tree.

Agility- I find the stealth perks quite useful for my current playstyle, although it could be argued that since they do ♥♥♥♥ all during horde night they are crap.

Granted, if the new points costs don't get removed and rebalanced again I do see myself going back to melee spec for SP, because nothing else seems viable.

 

[Jugginator]

Are people thinking the new sexy rex is the same as the old sexy rex or am I missing something?Isn't it only useful for melee builds since they basicly split it the old perk into 2 perks (cardio being the other half) ?

Useful for mining/breaking doors and such too. Melee is when you swing something.

I do think pack muel should be under Endurance. I always spec into str due to I enjoy melee + I am usually SP so the melee buffs for mining/killing/breaking stuff is always wanted. But I think everyone wants endurance for HP and such, so it would make sense to put it in there too.

 

[Krougal]

Useful for mining/breaking doors and such too. Melee is when you swing something.
I do think pack muel should be under Endurance. I always spec into str due to I enjoy melee + I am usually SP so the melee buffs for mining/killing/breaking stuff is always wanted. But I think everyone wants endurance for HP and such, so it would make sense to put it in there too.

Ahhh. Makes sense under the new system.

They should do away with the attribute requirements at all. A lot of perks it could be argued which stat they belong under anyway, and I feel like some perks were split into seperate perks just to fill out statlines. Put them back to 1 point. They're generic enough abilities that they're still useful (more or less) to almost any playstyle and if they're cheap it shouldn't bother anyone. The perks could cost more at higher levels since they are more specialized and also of increasing power, many of them being somewhat OP at lvl 5. Also since especially for SP everyone is going to benefit from a level or 2 of every perk but can pick and choose which you want to max. And I'm still a firm believer that at 300 you should have enough points to max everything!

 

[ktr]

I was trying to make this a poll, but i can't find the option to do so, or I don't have permission...
I'm wondering, how many people here:

1) go into strength for pack mule, but WOULD NOT PUT POINTS HERE if pack mule was unnecessary or available elsewhere.

2) go into strength and take pack mule, and WOULD STILL go into strength if pack mule was unnecessary or available elsewhere.

3) go into strength but don't take pack mule (is this a thing? would people do this?)

4) don't put points into strength.

I don't mind the new attribute-based system, but it seems so many vital QoL aspects are restricted behind attributes that people are taking just for very specific perks that they feel they need, and to get the full benefit, you need to invest a huge amount into that attribute. You see it with crafting, with carrying capacity, with running and jumping, with heal-over-time, with looting bonuses, with trade prices, with gathering, and more....but it FEELS like (from using it, playing with others that use it, and reading the forums) that pack mule is possibly the biggest culprit here.

No matter the playstyle, it seems like people dip significantly into strength for pack mule...even if they grab NOTHING else from that attribute. What's more, it feels like a tax more than anything...here is thing that feels vital to the game (being able to carry more, especially with the wide range of tools, food, ammo, water, and plunder a given character ends up with), but you must invest X amount of character advancement resources towards it (fine, game taxes like that exist in all sorts of games), BUT you also need to invest in the strength attribute, which is purely for melee and gathering....so If you're one of the (I expect) vast majority who takes pack mule to any extent beyond 1, you've invested your character towards melee and gathering, even if that's not your thing.

I'm not sure what the solution is, if there's a solution....this is mostly just me wondering if other people share my thoughts.

If you can, please comment which number (1-4) applies to you, and feel free to expand on it. I'd love to hear other viewpoints beyond what i've personally experienced or gleaned by reading tangents in others' posts.

2 - I like to have a bit of melee power to back up my bow for close quarters, so I'd probably take some in strength regardless of pack mule and gathering bonuses.

In the previous build, the system worked well for me. I never felt the need to max out pack mule or the gathering stuff, so I never felt I had to dump a bunch points into strength just to get more for pack mule or gathering.

 

[Kirtonos]

I've played A17 (all builds) as a duo for the most part. We've divided up our progression as follows prior to B331.

Early Game:

I go INT for crafting and cooking and STR for gathering and melee. They go PER for ranged (Pistols/Archery), minor investments in STR/FOR/AGI for pack mule, farming, Stamina, HP, and regen.

Mid-Game:

I bolster up AGI for stamina and FOR for regen while keeping STR and INT maxed. Some minor investments with free points into PER just to help with damage on horde nights with ranged weapons (AK-47/Marksman) and wrenching. They bolster up INT for Charismatic Leader, medical, and trader related perks while keeping PER maxed.

Late Game:

With INT and STR maxed, I start with PER to make myself more efficient at ranged for horde defense and FOR for heavy armor and melee damage reduction. They round out STR for packmule depending on if we haven't found extra pocket mods.

Then it's just maxing FOR and AGI for bigger stamina and HP pools.

Things we do not invest in:

Cooking past 2

Any stealth

Any AGI other than a rank of Cardio

Bladed weapon perks

Shotgun perks

Majority of FOR perks (although we did dump points in heat/cold resist when we started in the desert for one game. Did not do that for the snow biome game)

 

[RyanX]

Something I said before and stand by....Hammer & Forge, Grease Monkey and I forget the other one, should be under STR instead of INT. All crafting under one attribute is weird to me. Physician and Chef under INT is fine.

 

[LuckyStar]

Pack mule is one of the highest priorities in that category, but other things are also important in that category, miner 69er, salvage operations, etc. It's one of those categories where everyone picks something different for the most part, because it's a part of their specialization.

Hey this! ^

I was going to write something very similar to this but you beat me to it.

Well said!

 

[Feycat]

I take it for Pack Mule and Salvage Operations.

Because somehow, even though I'm the Int member in my group and therefore the science/trap girl, I still have to dip into strength to know how to get the most components out of stuff I'm taking apart...? For reasons?

- - - Updated - - -

Something I said before and stand by....Hammer & Forge, Grease Monkey and I forget the other one, should be under STR instead of INT. All crafting under one attribute is weird to me. Physician and Chef under INT is fine.

That doesn't make any sense. You're strong enough to make a car, instead of smart enough? You're strong enough to make a chem station instead of smart?