PC Could somebody please explain the stamina effect on armour?

ricp

New member
Ok, so the problem I am having is the stamina debuff when armour is worn.

If I load up an entirely vanilla character, their default stamina value is set 8.5 (per second). If I select a set of biker armour (tier 1, medium weight), and I check their stamina debuff, it shows -0.56 for each item. Here is a screen shot of a level one biker helmet, with those stats showing as well as your vanilla default stamina on the left hand side.

Pxs1ClM.jpeg


(image direct link: https://i.imgur.com/Pxs1ClM.jpeg)

As you can see, the default for a "naked" character is 8.5 and the helmet should debuff by -0.56, however, when you actually wear the helmet, the values are different..

A5N44nK.jpeg


(image direct link: https://i.imgur.com/A5N44nK.jpeg)

Looking at the panel to the left you can see that the overall charater stamina value is 7.65 a drop of -0.85, not -0.56 and this is consistent with all the items in the biker amour set, and all medium weight armour for that matter, as they have identical stamina debuffs. Just to confirm, the individual armour pieces I am testing this with do not come with buffs to stamina. For example, the buff for a biker helmet (in the example above) is stun resist (2% at tier 1) not stamina.

In terms of Heavy armour, the pattern is the same, except each item states you lose -0.9 stamina per second, yet when worn the actual value is -1.35, while this is not relevant to Primitive and Light armours as neither have a stamina debuff.

So what gives? It's got to be one of the two figures, which is it? Stamina use isn't an easy thing to check (or, at least, I can't think of a way to determine if your stamina loss is .56 or .85 per second) so I don't know how to check what is actually happening with the character. I presume (!) that a least one of the figures is correct, but without an easy test I cannot be sure, for all I know both -0.56 and -0.85 are wrong and the value applied to the character in game is neither of these values and something else that isn't listed.

Many thanks in advance. I am not complaining about this, I am a dev and worked on long term legacy projects, it's very easy to have contradictory figures when the code base is this large. There is also the chance I am a complete idiot, not seeing the obvious, and honestly.. I'd be happy with that, I just want a reliable figure.

Oh, and if you are about to say, drop onto the 7 Days Wiki and check the values there, they are hilariously out as they suggest the stamina loss is -5.6, not -0.56!

 
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I presume (!) that a least one of the figures is correct,
Yeah, about that... :D

Someone asked about the same thing earlier; I did a little testing - currently armor doesn't effect your stamina regen, at all. while standing still. Those sta penalties apply to running.. Otherwise you have a 10/sec regen regardless of any of the numbers on your stat sheet, modulated by thirst and buffs - those work.

Prolly going to get fixed "somehow" with the upcoming outfitter update.

Relevant post, wish I'd posted the test record:



EDIT: thanks for the likes, but I was .. misleading at the least, prolly fair to say wrong :)

edit in green...

 
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Yeah, about that... :D

Someone asked about the same thing earlier; I did a little testing - currently armor doesn't effect your stamina regen, at all. You have a 10/sec regen regardless of any of the numbers on your stat sheet, modulated by thirst and buffs - those work.


First off, thank you for the response. Although, I'll not thank you for making the problem worse! :D

I don't want to be mean, as I said I'm a dev, I've done some stupid stuff on production, but.. but.. not wiring up something pretty bloody fundamental is... well, let's just say it's "not great".

What I will say though is that I "feel" like I have less stamina when I am wearing medium and heavy armour compared to light and that's without the buffs/nerfs from the individual armour piece, or the suit bonus. That is totally anecdotal though, as I mentioned in my main post I don't have a way to explicitly test stamina in game.

The next question I suppose I should ask is, are the devs aware of this? Do we know? Is this a bug that's already reported, something the devs forgot to hook up during an update, or is this intentional because they are planning changes later. I mean, this is meant to be full release, it should either work or not be part of the game.

 
What I will say though is that I "feel" like I have less stamina when I am wearing medium and heavy armour compared to light and that's without the buffs/nerfs from the individual armour piece, or the suit bonus. That is totally anecdotal though, as I mentioned in my main post I don't have a way to explicitly test stamina in game.
Well, F. I thought that was just a function of needing to sprint more, but it seems it's not.

As I didn't record my test set from earlier, I hopped in to test it some more; still in the middle of it, but I proved myself wrong by now - you do consume stamina faster while sprinting in heavier armors. It does have an effect. 30s, 21s, 17s to drain my 136 sta.. a big effect. I'll add moar detailed results once I'm done. Regen while standing still is the same 10/sec, but drain while sprinting is different.

 
Well, F. I thought that was just a function of needing to sprint more, but it seems it's not.

As I didn't record my test set from earlier, I hopped in to test it some more; still in the middle of it, but I proved myself wrong by now - you do consume stamina faster while sprinting in heavier armors. It does have an effect. 30s, 21s, 17s to drain my 136 sta.. a big effect. I'll add moar detailed results once I'm done. Regen while standing still is the same 10/sec, but drain while sprinting is different.


Good work!

How are you testing it, do you have numeric readouts of updating stats, or are you eyeing it? Either way, I'm thankful for your efforts, very much so!

I look forward to any results you can get, and it'll be interesting if either the .56 or .85 values are correct of if it ends up something different.

I'm also glad that it isn't just defective/inactive. I don't want to throw shade TFPs way.

 
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Good work!

How are you testing it, do you have numeric readouts of updating stats, or are you eyeing it?
A Podcast, a wall to run at, a stopwatch, notepad and a calculator... and decent amount of patience, sigh .. and coffee! :)

Data dump in spoiler for: 1) draining stamina by sprinting against a wall in different configs. 2) recovering stamina standing still or walking, in different configs.

136 Stamina, no skills, no buffs .. running at a wall.
(N)aked 29.87s
(M)edium armor (Assassin) 20.56s
(H)eavy (Miner) 16.80s

Drains: (sta/sec)
N 4.55
M 6.61   *1
H 8.10   *1.1

Full set of Customized Fittings mods
Times, Drains:
N N/A
M 30.06s, 4.52 /s    *1
H 23.41s, 5.81 /s    *1.1

Full relevant armor skill points without the CF-mods:
Times, Drains:
N N/A
M 24.06, 5.65 /s
H 19.27, 7.06 /s

Full relevant armor skill points with the CF-mods:
Times, Drains:
N N/A
M 40.37, 3.37 /s
H 27.57, 4.93 /s

Regenerating Stamina
Times to regen from 0 standing still (N,M,H):
13.86, 14.1, 13.7 (likely just testing variance from 13.6)
9.8/s, 9.6/s,  9.9/s

Times to regen from 0, walking (N,M,H):
14.36, 15.59, 16.69
9.4/s, 8.7/s, 8.1/s

Times to regen from 0, walking (N,M,H) with CF-mods:
N/A, 14.11, 15.48
--, 9.6/s, 8.8/s

Times to regen from 0, walking (N,M,H) with CF-mods plus skills:
N/A, 13.34, 14.39
--,  10.2/s, 9.5/s

Times to regen from 0, walking (N,M,H) with skills, no mods:
N/A, 14.38, 15.95
--,  9.5/s, 8.5/s

These walking differences are smallish, but the results feel real; for example:

- medium armor, with CF, no skills, stamina went up in smaller-than-5 steps;
- with CF and skills went with larger-than-5 steps.

That would mean: in full, capped medium set you'll regen faster walking than standing. Which is a little surprising.

*1 Difference with using CF-mods is about 2.1 sta per sec, 0.5 per mod. Within measurement error.
1.1 .. for heavy, 2.3 .. prolly still a measurement error rather than a real difference.

Effect of the 4 skill points is about 1 /s, with either skill.


Did I find .56 or .85 ...? Don't know where to look tbh. Using Naked as baseline, comparing to Medium, the difference in Drain is (6.61 - 4.55) ~2.06 sta/s. That looks like the 0.56 (x4 = 2.24) is closer than the .85 (x4 = 3.4). But ... is the exact thing being referred by the UI? :D

EDIT: forgot version: V 1.1 (b14)

 
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Is that stamina loss or mobility loss?  I thought the running affects was more tied to mobility loss and not to stamina.

 
Is that stamina loss or mobility loss? 
For a TL;DR for that test of mine, it's stamina loss, but it applies differently while {standing, walking, running}. Not at all while standing, full effect on running. What I haven't tested is for example tool / weapon use moving or not; "sneak sprint uses no stamina" - book effect; aiming while moving... etc. Which all can change .. everything :)

 
You've done a power of work there, @theFlu!

Don't have the time to read and reply just now but I will, and thanks again.

 
That one gains stamina at 10/s when standing still no matter the armor could be a nod to reality, as the armor (almost) doesn't matter in catching breath when not moving. So this part could be intentional and not a bug.

 
So this part could be intentional and not a bug.
Ye, looks intentional, and functional. Also complicated enough not to expect being detailed out in tooltips. That char sheet "Stamina /s" number is the only issue I'd consider a bug here - the naked 8.5 doesn't seem to appear anywhere in my numbers, and the way it changes doesn't seem to line up either.

Don't have the time to read and reply just now but I will, and thanks again.
Yw, and no worries either way, I was planning to test it for myself at some point; just never got around to it ... :)

 
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 So this part could be intentional and not a bug.


If you look at the images I supplied; the item says one figure, yet when applied it gives a different level of effect to the character.

Irrespective of whether the stamina is calculated through movement, recovery or any other metric, surely the fact there are two different numbers for the identical property suggests that is a bug. Albeit maybe only a visual one.

If there is some underlying contributor to that final value, and that is how the (for the medium armour) value shows -.56 when it applies -.85, it would be really good if that was promoted to the UI.

I don't think it's unfair to ask a game dev to make their systems as transparent as possible. Especially considering we are talking armour here, something that will make the difference between life and death, whereas if the figures were a little out for the, for example, pick axe then it wouldn't be of any great consequence other than a minor annoyance.

 
If you look at the images I supplied; the item says one figure, yet when applied it gives a different level of effect to the character.

Irrespective of whether the stamina is calculated through movement, recovery or any other metric, surely the fact there are two different numbers for the identical property suggests that is a bug. Albeit maybe only a visual one.

If there is some underlying contributor to that final value, and that is how the (for the medium armour) value shows -.56 when it applies -.85, it would be really good if that was promoted to the UI.

I don't think it's unfair to ask a game dev to make their systems as transparent as possible. Especially considering we are talking armour here, something that will make the difference between life and death, whereas if the figures were a little out for the, for example, pick axe then it wouldn't be of any great consequence other than a minor annoyance.


That is why I said "part", I don't doubt there is a bug in the description there. Even the initial value seems wrong, shouldn't it be 10 if you recover 10 standing still?

I was just trying to supply a piece to the puzzle, if only as a theory.

 
I was just trying to supply a piece to the puzzle, if only as a theory.


Don't feel I am jumping on you for that comment, your contribution is welcomed. :)   

I won't lie, I'm getting exasperated as this whole thing unfolds, but then it's not helped by me not having a set of debug stats that I can monitor realtime and having to make guesses rather than accurate readings.

As it is, I am going to go with the applied armor stamina debuff (the greater of the two values) rather than the implied debuff of the item itself.

The next question is.. do I report this as a bug, and if so in what way? Simply that the figures don't match or that the whole stamina system is in doubt?

 
Prolly worth it, if one doesn't exist already. Also known as, "if you can be bothered to read thru the existing bug pool" ... :D

I'd say "Character sheet: the stamina value shown doesn't seem to match to reality".


"reality"? Careful with that word in the context of 7 days 😁. How about "... item stats and in-game tests"

 
How about "... item stats and in-game tests"
Hmm, I prefer mine, it's a bug report about a game; brevity also has value. Although either version is too flowery already and it should likely be two separate bug reports:

"Character sheet stamina value inconsistent with mods" and

"Character sheet stamina value doesn't convey real results"

Might need two separate fixes and thus might be easier to track as two separate bugs; but that's just the old Error Manager in me talking. Maybe drop the "character sheet" and leave that to the description, so

"Stamina value inconsistent with mods" and

"Stamina value doesn't convey real results"

Much more readable. "Real results" is still bad, but works for a title.

 
As I went to report the bug, I noticed this as part of the instructions..

DO BUFFS/DEBUFFS WORK?

Activate dm in console (admin on server or host in SP/P2P game)

Hit F3

Open inventory

Toggle 2 row 5 option on the left side (Ply)

This will open a window on the right

If you cannot move, the search field is active, backspace everything in the search field and hit LMB

Now you can see active buffs/debuffs and cvars on yourself

Hold shift to view stats of your current target


I didn't realise I could get an accurate readout of my stats in that way. I mean I knew it must be possible, just not how.

If this is useful, I'll spend some time making notes. At this point it's just the discrepancy between the item itself and the applied debuff.

--- update:

Well that's an absolute bust, it does list some things that are useful, such as the noise or stealth levels but nothing in the stamina. Why would you not include that as part of a detailed debug panel, seems odd.

Anyway, back to the drawing board. :(

 
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