PC Cooking has now become obsolete

G

General Dexter

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I find the skill Cooking has now become obsolete in Alpha 18. With the new system "food poisioning" and reading in plans the skill has lost its meaning. Because faster cooking is not that important. I mean you are level 5 cooking and people are still getting diarrhea from your food. What is there to be a master chef? Please take out the "food poisoning" for each level. That means:

Lvl 0 = 5%,

Lvl 1 = 4%,

Lvl 2 = 3%,

Lvl 3 = 2%,

Lvl 4 = 1%,

Lvl 5 = 0%,

This is the only way cooking makes sense again and is useful for the group.

 
Iron Gut skill does exactly that, and even a master chef would still have chances of having food poisoning happen is such bad conditions (lack of soap, lack of proper heat control, possible mutations in animals and plants, micro contaminates you can't see or taste....possible fallout {nuke kind} there are so many possible variables that could contribute to why food poisoning is a thing.

and is a 4% chance really that bad that it constitutes another "oh no food poisoning exists nerf it please!!" post? this is like the 4th or 5th one

a 4% chance means that out of a possible 100 eaten meals, you MIGHT get poisoned a few times...

 
Cooking is simply a work in progress. The current state is not the intended final version. The plan is to create a multitude of recipes beyond what we already have that involve the use of the canned foods as at least one of the components in the recipe. Cooked dishes will have special buffs and benefits that last for a period of time when you eat them which will make the risk of food poisoning worth it in order to be able to use those foods.

We just aren't there yet. Once TFP is done cooked dishes will be a lot more desirable and the incentive to eat more than just basic canned goods will be back. People will be wanting to save their canned goods to use in recipes rather than wasting them by eating them.

 
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I do like the food poisoning debuff...

I just dislike what it does.

"Eat something so that you can get a status that removes the stuff you just ate!"

*repeat*

And since there is no goldenrod tea for food poisoning it feels increasingly punishing.

Make it somewhat like a broken bone (or more like the death debuff in A17) where you are slightly slower, you aren't muffled anymore (like 0% every zombie instantly hears you) and you have to periodicially stop for a second to puke.

Make this debuff last 20 minutes and give us an antidote (maybe antibiotics?) that can reduce the timer and severity.

This way nobody would complain. Good food is worth cooking again (especially with cooking buffs) and all is good.

For everyone who complains about it now:

Put 4 perk levels in iron gut and you won't get it anymore.

Thats a lot of points for sure, but at least you can eat non canned food :D

 
The buffs had better be pretty crazy then, because buffs like from "sham chowder" are a joke. Now that attributes don't do much of anything except unlock skills, buffs like sham chowder, or the charismatic nature skill are pointless.

Furthermore, the idea of taking a 0% food poisoning "safe" food and cooking it into something that has 4% food poisoning (like fish tacos or chili dogs) is pretty cringy already.

Finally, inventory management is still a real issue with buff consumables, except on horde night. If i'm trying to gear up for a tier 5 clear quest that will take 15-45 minutes and end up with a completely full inventory of resources from it, I don't want to have to bring a bunch of random buff foods cluttering up my inventory to give myself 5 minute buffs along the way. Especially considering that since they use canned food, you're now adding even MORE to the pile of things to cart back to your base, and with the fact that you can't produce canned food, you can't even reliably make several of the same item to stack them in one inventory slot.

Food, water, farming, scavenging, and cooking are all important parts of a survival game, but currently the way it's implemented clashes terribly with many other aspects of the game.

If you want to have cooking a skill, don't gate recipes that are easily findable behind it, give it a more useful boost...something like "food and drinks cooked by you gives 10/20/30/40/50% more food and water, and your food and water levels can go to 160/170/180/190/200% of your max health (food and water has 10% more effect per level, and increases the food/water "overage" you can stock up before you start getting hungry or thirsty). Or anything else along these lines. But revamping food to use looted cans to combine with other random food to make MORE risky foods that give short buffs will not "save" cooking.

 
I do like the food poisoning debuff...I just dislike what it does.

"Eat something so that you can get a status that removes the stuff you just ate!"

*repeat*
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This is their answer to food spoilage.

And since there is no goldenrod tea for food poisoning....
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There is. Vitamins.

Make it somewhat like a broken bone (or more like the death debuff in A17) where you are slightly slower, you aren't muffled anymore (like 0% every zombie instantly hears you) and you have to periodicially stop for a second to puke.Make this debuff last 20 minutes and give us an antidote (maybe antibiotics?) that can reduce the timer and severity.

This way nobody would complain. Good food is worth cooking again (especially with cooking buffs) and all is good.
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Forced slowing with periodic forced stun lock and losing all stealth during a 20 minute period? You think nobody would complain about that?

For everyone who complains about it now:

Put 4 perk levels in iron gut and you won't get it anymore.

Thats a lot of points for sure, but at least you can eat non canned food :D
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Or just eat a vitamin before you eat. Or just eat. It happens so rarely that it really isn't worth the worry.

 
This is their answer to food spoilage.


There is. Vitamins.

Forced slowing with periodic forced stun lock and losing all stealth during a 20 minute period? You think nobody would complain about that?

Or just eat a vitamin before you eat. Or just eat. It happens so rarely that it really isn't worth the worry.
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...just being honest here...I don't think they actually listen when you write stuff Roland...because the exact same stuff comes up weekly, and yet no one seems to internalize it

they'd rather have another "cure" for when they catch it, than to use a "prevention" BEFORE they catch it...and with how in-often it happens, I don't see the point (myself) in even using vitamins unless I have 1 on me, I just suffer the effects and get food as soon as I finish whatever project I was in the middle of.

TLDR: canned Sham if that 4% REALLY bothers you, everyone else is going to enjoy fresh Meat Stew and Pumpkin Pie

 
I agree with the OP for the most part, I was surprised to see the food poisoning was reversed. Now that the cooked food does give you food poisoning and the canned food does not, what is the point to making good meal when you can just eat canned food now. I used to love making chili dogs and fish tacos, but why bother now, yes it is a only a slim chance but it happened last night with some bacon and eggs and oddly enough I do not remember what happened I just ate more bacon and eggs and that seemed to fix it somehow.

Early on putting points into Iron Gut seems like a unlikely choice to bother with until you are level 80 or 100 and the early more beneficial skills are chosen, then that skill would make sense I guess. I have never put a point in it in A17 (if it was there) even at level 140 or something

The master chef skill is something I used to put skill points in, but now I doubt I will for quite a long time, as it is not very beneficial anymore.

I have a lot of things to discuss about how A18 re-writ the whole game in some ways, but I will not make any new posts that have been discussed already and as per usual I have missed or shown up late for the party again.

Some drink, maybe red tea (I really do not remember) gives a benefit of digestion or something, That was a cool thing added, but I really do not know what it actually does. I am finding all sorts of things that are completely clanged, some good and some bad, and yes I really need to read the release notes.

 
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I'm not 100% satisfied with the current food system, but regardless of the proposed solution...

This way nobody would complain.
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...is the least true thing ever said on these forums.

 
How about the idea of using a beverage cooler to store your eggs raw meat and other perishables and having a date that they will spoil as well as a date that corn and potatoes will become spoiled and an exportation date on canned goods.

Say 4 weeks for potatoes and corn in a container and 6 weeks in a cooler

3 weeks for refrigerated perishables and 3 days for perishable food in non refrigerated containers.

Random expiration date on the canned goods, basically the usual "best by" some random date from 1-18 weeks, readable in the description of the canned good.

Prepared foods would be 2 weeks or so in the cooler.

Anything eaten or prepared after this time will ad cumulative negative effects depending on the age of the food before eaten. It is ridiculous to store raw meat and eggs in a container without refrigeration.

 
This is their answer to food spoilage.
Then they have learned nothing from A17.

There is. Vitamins.

there isn't. Prevention (especially when so expensive) is only good for major risks (like rotten meat or sham sandwiches. Otherwise it feels wasted.

Forced slowing with periodic forced stun lock and losing all stealth during a 20 minute period? You think nobody would complain about that?

I am not talking about the slow of A17. And yes, while you are unhealthy, you should avoid fights. You mostly eat at home. And if you have the antidote it is even less severe, lasts shorter and the "stun" happens even rarer.

Or just eat a vitamin before you eat. Or just eat. It happens so rarely that it really isn't worth the worry.
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I've just given the team so much credit for finally implementing all the stuff I have argued for nearly a year...

And it starts again.

Let me, without making any specifics that you can pick apart, tell you what is wrong with it from a gamedev standpoint:

1. It is a self containing gameplay loop. It is a closed system. Eat -> get foodpoisoning -> eat again -> ...

2. It has no viable counterplay. (precautions yes, but no way to combat it after you have gotten it)

2.1 The counterplay is wasting ressources for something, that might not even happen and should be used for rotten meat and the like

2.2 The only viable counterplay is putting 4+12 points into fortitude and iron gut. So only a part of the players will be able to use this.

3. Its only existance (if true) is so that the player wastes food. This is punishing the player with rng numbers.

4. There is no "value" in this mechanic. Every mechanic should open up another gameplay element. But eating more is nothing new, it takes ages (25-100 takes >1minute of just eating) and does not interact with any other mechanic in the game.

Now you mentioned food spoilage right? Lets say electronics were now actually balanced and more fleshed out (as a prerequisite because currently electronics is free on singleplayer servers and on multiplayer you need solarbanks otherwise a generator doesnt last a RL day).

Food spoilage:

1. It is a self containing gameplay loop. It is a closed system. Eat -> get foodpoisoning -> eat again -> ...

Well building something to store your food is already something new, you can't carry around a lot of food otherwise it goes rotten AND once it spoils you actually gain rotten meat (or compost or whatever) which is actually something players want already because crop plots need so much rotten meat.

2. It has no viable counterplay. (precautions yes, but no way to combat it after you have gotten it)

early game is harder, but building like an icebox where you have a huge box that you can put snow in (with a big'ish tank) that helps a little and lateron the refridgerator (low power, foor x100 time) and a deep freezer (extreme power, no spoilage)

2.1 The counterplay is wasting ressources for something, that might not even happen and should be used for rotten meat and the like

you still "waste" snow and electricity, but you basicially prevent it as long as you take the time to farm it (you can't farm vitamin pills, its just luck)

2.2 The only viable counterplay is putting 4+12 points into fortitude and iron gut. So only a part of the players will be able to use this.

you still need the perks to be able to build the freezer... or you find a schematic, but not much changes here

3. Its only existance (if true) is so that the player wastes food. This is punishing the player with rng numbers.

players still lose food over time, but with careful planning they can counteract that.

4. There is no "value" in this mechanic. Every mechanic should open up another gameplay element. But eating more is nothing new, it takes ages (25-100 takes >1minute of just eating) and does not interact with any other mechanic in the game.

It introduces another need for electricity, spoiled meat can still be used and even early game has a counter to it, namely good planning and snow farming.

Do you see a difference?

Player fun should always be the first agenda, the second should be the varation of gameplay elements and after that somewhere should be trying to withhold features and content from the player to "dangle the carrot".

Never introduce something to punish the player just because you made the game too easy. Find a way that is interactive instead of punishing.

 
I'm not 100% satisfied with the current food system, but regardless of the proposed solution...


...is the least true thing ever said on these forums.
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I've heard noone complain about levelgates beeing removed ;)

I've heard nobody complain that traders now give better rewards.

While the stun and the slow might cause a few players to dislike it, it was the first idea out of my head that is already miles better than what they have now :D

I am sorry and I retract that nobody would complain.

But I was comparing A17 33% like to A18 92% likes here. Sure 8% still disliked the game, but it is basicially a normvariation :D

- - - Updated - - -

This is a survival game. Part of the fun is the struggle. No struggle = no fun.
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YES. That is exactly what I was saying.

But clicking 'W' for 2 minutes to fill up your hunger bar is not a struggle it is mundane and boring.

 
As far as refrigeration using electricity, I did not really think of that, but perhaps snow could be added to a cooler like coal in a train. Then you could upgrade the refrigerator with some small amount of electricity ensuing longer times before spoilage and not needing the snow or Ice to put in cooler every couple of day.

This idea will eliminate all food poisoning (but still dysentery from drinking 8 bottles of water or whatever) if you keep your food safe, but as a negative you really need to keep an eye on the food, perhaps a tool tip or something so you can keep track of your spoilage, say "2 days before rotten meat" "2 Days before rotten eggs" and the same for prepared foods like bacon and eggs. The canned goods "best before" would of course be random and there will be a tool tip in the description of the item.

This would be more realistic, but some would really not like it too much.

 
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Cooking is simply a work in progress. The current state is not the intended final version. The plan is to create a multitude of recipes beyond what we already have that involve the use of the canned foods as at least one of the components in the recipe. Cooked dishes will have special buffs and benefits that last for a period of time when you eat them which will make the risk of food poisoning worth it in order to be able to use those foods.
We just aren't there yet. Once TFP is done cooked dishes will be a lot more desirable and the incentive to eat more than just basic canned goods will be back. People will be wanting to save their canned goods to use in recipes rather than wasting them by eating them.
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Food really needs to give buffs. I think one buff would be a night vision buff. I can see the youtubers appreciating that for their night videos. Right now food seems to only be a healing item and a needs to survive.

Perhaps maybe add a new category: snacks. Snacks give low stamina, but have abilities associated to them. You eat a snack, and it gives a benefit. Benefits are like faster running, less recoil, farther grenade toss, and less fall damage. This would fix cooking in my opinion...

 
YES. That is exactly what I was saying.

But clicking 'W' for 2 minutes to fill up your hunger bar is not a struggle it is mundane and boring.
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^ This

System is going back to when we grind stone axe craft. We are forced to GRIND FOOD.

The only difference is, craft grinding is not forced to everyone and once finished never needed anymore. But this food grinding are for everyone and everlasting, unless player determines to purchase iron gut or waste vitamins.

 
I agree with the OP for the most part, I was surprised to see the food poisoning was reversed. Now that the cooked food does give you food poisoning and the canned food does not, what is the point to making good meal when you can just eat canned food now. I used to love making chili dogs and fish tacos, but why bother now, yes it is a only a slim chance but it happened last night with some bacon and eggs and oddly enough I do not remember what happened I just ate more bacon and eggs and that seemed to fix it somehow.
Early on putting points into Iron Gut seems like a unlikely choice to bother with until you are level 80 or 100 and the early more beneficial skills are chosen, then that skill would make sense I guess. I have never put a point in it in A17 (if it was there) even at level 140 or something

The master chef skill is something I used to put skill points in, but now I doubt I will for quite a long time, as it is not very beneficial anymore.

I have a lot of things to discuss about how A18 re-writ the whole game in some ways, but I will not make any new posts that have been discussed already and as per usual I have missed or shown up late for the party again.

Some drink, maybe red tea (I really do not remember) gives a benefit of digestion or something, That was a cool thing added, but I really do not know what it actually does. I am finding all sorts of things that are completely clanged, some good and some bad, and yes I really need to read the release notes.
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I have the opposite experience. putting 4 points into iron gut makes you powerful.

1: you can live off of 2 meat stews a day. I had a crate of the stuff. my food surplus is so bad i am downloading the npc mod just to have people to feed.

2: you are not as hungry. No need to worry about stamina for fights. you can beat the crap out of anyone and with the right perks you get stamina back from killing zombies. You will have a full stamina bar at all times. You will have ammo when the rest of the starving plebs are bemoaning using up their ammo on pois and the pois not being worth it.

3: Drugs and booze are more powerful. you can have a full horde night of extra xp with 2 lernin elixirs. fortibites+painkillers = invincible mode for a minute. Because you are not eating canned food, you have more ingredients for better chems and foods.

It's a tough call honestly. Iron gut is a good perk for end game AND early game. People here do not realize how important it is for melee. I did not understand how people just are too weak and pathetic to clear out at tier 5 poi melee only. But it seems that they don't take that perk, so at high levels they are running out of stamina too fast and are not eating cooked food because of food poisoning. With a high level of iron gut, you just eat two stews in the morning, and you are good for an active day and a half. That includes beating things to death with a baseball bat and riding around on a bike.

 
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